Articulink? Technical discussion

[Lumpskie]

So I think back in the thread somewhere there was some discussion about how the Power Wagon cannot take the payload because of these radius arms. In your opinion, do you think that they have affected your payload capabilities?

It's just my opinion but I don't think radius arms would have an effect on payload because they function to locate the front axle whereas the rear axle bears most of the load added to the bed. But, I'm open to being wrong on that.

Factory swaybar installed?

No swaybar in either measurement... just stiff stock springs. I gave the truck some good hard driving on the way home today... I really like it better this way.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

It's just my opinion but I don't think radius arms would have an effect on payload because they function to locate the front axle whereas the rear axle bears most of the load added to the bed. But, I'm open to being wrong on that.

No swaybar in either measurement... just stiff stock springs. I gave the truck some good hard driving on the way home today... I really like it better this way.

I’ve been running without my front for a few thousand miles now. Super happy without it. Do you still have the rear or have you removed both?

 

[Lumpskie]

I’ve been running without my front for a few thousand miles now. Super happy without it. Do you still have the rear or have you removed both?

I'm still running the rear. When I did my initial flex test, I found the roll stiffness in the front to be way higher than the rear. With my current configuration, roll stiffness is a little higher in the rear than the front. But, as you can see from the pictures, they are still fairly balanced. For on-road safety, the stock configuration would be guaranteed to produce understeer. My current configuration is fairly neutral so I think my truck may understeer in certain situations and oversteer in others. I prefer that neutral handling, given how I use my truck. (exploring off pavement, towing and long interstate drives)

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

I'm still running the rear. When I did my initial flex test, I found the roll stiffness in the front to be way higher than the rear. With my current configuration, roll stiffness is a little higher in the rear than the front. But, as you can see from the pictures, they are still fairly balanced. For on-road safety, the stock configuration would be guaranteed to produce understeer. My current configuration is fairly neutral so I think my truck may understeer in certain situations and oversteer in others. I prefer that neutral handling, given how I use my truck. (exploring off pavement, towing and long interstate drives)

Thanks. Pretty similar to my thoughts on the subject.

 

[loveracing1988]

It's just my opinion but I don't think radius arms would have an effect on payload because they function to locate the front axle whereas the rear axle bears most of the load added to the bed. But, I'm open to being wrong on that.

No swaybar in either measurement... just stiff stock springs. I gave the truck some good hard driving on the way home today... I really like it better this way.

Did you ever attempt this test for the other side to see if there were any differences side to side?

 

[jetrinka]

Also curious if you noticed any length differences in between the two arms being that the PW is slightly lifted from the factory? Maybe the mounts on the frames are located in different spots? Probably have to get a PW and regular truck side by side to measure/tell any difference.

 

[Lumpskie]

Did you ever attempt this test for the other side to see if there were any differences side to side?

I haven't had a chance to test that yet. But, I can tell you from analysis that it doesn't make a difference in performance. Cycling the suspension in the other direction will just deform the additional bushing in the opposite direction. I still plan on testing it when I get a chance, though

Also curious if you noticed any length differences in between the two arms being that the PW is slightly lifted from the factory? Maybe the mounts on the frames are located in different spots? Probably have to get a PW and regular truck side by side to measure/tell any difference.

From my measurements, they are identical. Truck drives totally like stock on smooth surfaces.

 

[jetrinka]

I haven't had a chance to test that yet. But, I can tell you from analysis that it doesn't make a difference in performance. Cycling the suspension in the other direction will just deform the additional bushing in the opposite direction. I still plan on testing it when I get a chance, though


From my measurements, they are identical. Truck drives totally like stock on smooth surfaces.

Thats awesome. Kudos to you for being the pioneer that tried this out first on these particular trucks. I'm sure there will be many people that follow suit.

 

[Lumpskie]

Thats awesome. Kudos to be the pioneer that tried this out first on these particular trucks. I'm sure there will be many people that follow suit.

Thanks! I'll be sure to report if I see any bad side effects to running the single arm.

 

[thkbaron]

I thought you said one arm originally. I thought I was confused. Did I miss something or why the hell are you running one arm? A test of some sort?

 

[Lumpskie]

I thought you said one arm originally. I thought I was confused. Did I miss something or why the hell are you running one arm? A test of some sort?

Yes sir. I am running 1 power wagon Articulink arm and 1 standard Ram arm. The reason I wanted to try this is because of my experience with 80 series Land Cruisers, which are also a radius arm front suspension. When trying to get my LC to flex better, I discovered that the real limit in the radius arms was that the compression side arm wanted to roll the axle backwards while the extension side wanted to roll it forwards. With two stout arms, they fight and bind quickly... without yielding. I experimented with my Land Cruiser and put a single "Superflex" arm from Australia on it. (I may be still be the only person who has done this) The result is that the stock arm was able to force the aftermarket arm to deflect under situations that require articulation. In standard bump or on-road situations, both arms work together. It netted me much more even flex (front to rear) on my Land Cruiser and more total vertical climb. In that rig, I can now climb somewhere approaching 40 inches with all tires on the ground. I decided to apply the same concept with the Ram, using the single articulink as a submissive arm against the stock Ram arm. The idea was to get more flex but not allow the axle to roll easy enough that it creates wheel hop. So far, it seems to do the job!

Here are some pictures of radius arm flex on my Land Cruiser:

 

[thkbaron]

Ahhhhh. Thanks for the explanation!!

 

[WXman]

It's just my opinion but I don't think radius arms would have an effect on payload because they function to locate the front axle whereas the rear axle bears most of the load added to the bed. But, I'm open to being wrong on that.

No swaybar in either measurement... just stiff stock springs. I gave the truck some good hard driving on the way home today... I really like it better this way.

Of course rear coil spring rate comes into play. Anybody know how the spring rate compares between PW and non-PW 2500s with gas engines?

 

[loveracing1988]

Of course rear coil spring rate comes into play. Anybody know how the spring rate compares between PW and non-PW 2500s with gas engines?

I don't know about spring rates but I know at least on the 4th gens the power wagon had linear coils vs progressive coils on the regular 2500's.

 

[WXman]

I don't know about spring rates but I know at least on the 4th gens the power wagon had linear coils vs progressive coils on the regular 2500's.

Interesting. Jeep does that on their pickups also. The Sport with Max Tow, for example, has progressive coils and the Rubicon has linear coils. Many have speculated that's why Sports start off with 1,700 lbs. payload and Rubicons max out at like 1,100.

 

[Trail_Wagon]

I saw this on Instagram... Pretty cool. This guy replaced the frame side articulink bushing with a 3.0 joint. Less slop, but still maintains flex, since all the magic happens at the axle anyways.

 

[thkbaron]

Huh. Wonder how that joint stays held in there? I’ll stay stock. Looks a bit sketchy

 

[Trail_Wagon]

I'm pretty sure it's to demonstrate the concept and will be properly welded in

 

[Wobly]

I'm pretty sure it's to demonstrate the concept and will be properly welded in

Yeah, Jiri is a fabricator and machinist so he will probably post a picture of the completed project.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

I saw this on Instagram... Pretty cool. This guy replaced the frame side articulink bushing with a 3.0 joint. Less slop, but still maintains flex, since all the magic happens at the axle anyways.

View attachment 39092

That joint will allow more vibrations to the chassis and will have a significantly shorter service interval than the vulcanized rubber joint’s service life. It will allow more flex and it is serviceable but overall I think it’s a downgrade.