Articulink? Technical discussion

[Darkone]

@Lumpskie could that difference be in solely having the sway bar disconnected? The OP in that thread had a carli sway bar and I’ll go out on a limb and say trail_wagon probably had his disconnected in that photo

 

[Lumpskie]

@Lumpskie could that difference be in solely having the sway bar disconnected? The OP in that thread had a carli sway bar and I’ll go out on a limb and say trail_wagon probably had his disconnected in that photo

Good point, calling out the swaybar. The only reason I wonder how much difference it makes in this case is just because both rigs were descending or crossing a ditch... those situations can kind of force a swaybar to twist where a standard climb might not. (I don't know that's the case... but I have seen such an effect on my rig in the past) This would be a place where having everyone RTI their rig and include their specific setup would be awesome. We could compare all these parts, apples to apples.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

This is what I was questioning about. using metalcloak's Duroflex joint on the rear of a PW radius arm.
https://metalcloak.com/metalcloak-duroflex-joints-suspension-builder-parts.html
Would it work better than the Johnny joint used or the stock joint on a PW radius arm?
Could one of these joints replace the OEM radius arm bushings where it mounts to the axle and give more flex?

 

[jeepkevin]

This is what I was questioning about. using metalcloak's Duroflex joint on the rear of a PW radius arm.
https://metalcloak.com/metalcloak-duroflex-joints-suspension-builder-parts.html
Would it work better than the Johnny joint used or the stock joint on a PW radius arm?
Could one of these joints replace the OEM radius arm bushings where it mounts to the axle and give more flex?

I'm the one that did the little right up on Metalcloak install on my Ram.

A Johnny Joint uses a steel ball that rotates in a urethane or nitride race. It pivots in all directions but gives no absorption, you can feel paint stripes driving down the road. But in abusive situations they hold up pretty good and easily rebuildable, greaseable along the way to prolong life.

The Metalcloak joint is the same concept except they use a softer Kevlar infused rubber to pivot in, just way more comfortable from a daily driver concept.

I have heim joints on my rock crawlers, super strong but can squeak when they get dirty, aren't sealed so you don't get as good of life span, and you just throw them away instead of rebuilding.

The Metalcloak arms add the 3rd pivot point like the Articulink arms so I am betting that total flex allowed is similar give or take.

I have about 7k miles so far and no noise, play, or any real change so far. Time will tell but with all the Jeeps I build for work on the Metalcloak arms, it is rare to ever get a complaint or rebuild from just normal driving, wheeling, wear and tear. I have done a couple because of all out abuse, customers had a pretty good story in that situation.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

I'm the one that did the little right up on Metalcloak install on my Ram.

A Johnny Joint uses a steel ball that rotates in a urethane or nitride race. It pivots in all directions but gives no absorption, you can feel paint stripes driving down the road. But in abusive situations they hold up pretty good and easily rebuildable, greaseable along the way to prolong life.

The Metalcloak joint is the same concept except they use a softer Kevlar infused rubber to pivot in, just way more comfortable from a daily driver concept.

I have heim joints on my rock crawlers, super strong but can squeak when they get dirty, aren't sealed so you don't get as good of life span, and you just throw them away instead of rebuilding.

The Metalcloak arms add the 3rd pivot point like the Articulink arms so I am betting that total flex allowed is similar give or take.

I have about 7k miles so far and no noise, play, or any real change so far. Time will tell but with all the Jeeps I build for work on the Metalcloak arms, it is rare to ever get a complaint or rebuild from just normal driving, wheeling, wear and tear. I have done a couple because of all out abuse, customers had a pretty good story in that situation.

Feel vibrations? Through steel balls? You don’t say! But but but .. they said it was just marketing hype @Trail_Wagon

@jeepkevin sounds like you have a nice set up

 

[Crusty old shellback]

jeepkevin,
Thanks for chiming in.
So can you answer my question?
Do you think the duroflex joints would work better on the OEM PW arms to replace the OEM ones? That is if they have a size that fits.
I know for the rear where it mounts to the frame, it would have to be modified to use an adjustable one similar to the previous posted Johnny joint install.

 

[jeepkevin]

jeepkevin,
Thanks for chiming in.
So can you answer my question?
Do you think the duroflex joints would work better on the OEM PW arms to replace the OEM ones? That is if they have a size that fits.
I know for the rear where it mounts to the frame, it would have to be modified to use an adjustable one similar to the previous posted Johnny joint inst

I don't think it is going to work easily, but it may be possible. The bushings on the front axle are bonded rubber bushings inside of a metal sleeve. The metal sleeve is then pressed into both the axle housing as well as into the lower half of the OEM arm. Both the Johnny Joint and the Metalcloak joint use a "C" clip to retain the joint in its aftermarket housing. Now, if you took either brand of joint and it's house and machined the outer housing to match the diameter of the OEM bushing we have something to work with. Then either press or weld in this new housing with the aftermarket joint inside.

We need outer diameter and width of OEM rubber bushing.
We need an aftermarket joint and housing that is close enough where we could machine down to duplicate fitment. Can't go too thin on the joint housing, lots of load there.
It will take as bit of trial and error but the concept is possible.

Now the bushings pressed into the axle move minimal, is it worth the effort?
The 3rd Articulink bushing does deform to give the PW it's extra travel, I think only the Metalcloak could deform in a similar manner.
I don't know if after all this work we would gain enough extra travel.

We only get better when we push the envelope, I like this whole thought process!!

 

[Trail_Wagon]

I own a jeep rental company. I typically run around 6 jeeps in the fleet and over the past couple of years I have tried OEM control arms, Metalcloak control arms, and RockJock (johnny joint) control arms. At one time I had 2 of each (OEM/MC/JJ) type of control arm... I have a very unique perspective because I have 6 identical jeeps... except for 1 component...
All jeeps are 2020 and newer, all jeeps are spec'd identical, all jeeps are running fox 2.0 IFP, all jeeps have the same size tire, and brand (falken wildpeak MT) all at approx the same mileage (between 10-25k miles). Same weight, same tops, same options. Its as close to a clinical study as you could possibly get.

I can tell you, beyond a shadow of a doubt... the joint makes absolutely no difference in terms of noise and vibration/harshness. I could take any member of this forum, put them into the different jeeps back to back for a drive, and no one here could tell me which control arms they were using. I'm sorry its not what you want to believe.

Its just marketing hype.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

Trail wagon,
Thanks for the info.
Little clarification.
Are you saying there is no difference on road?
Or no difference period, doesn't matter the terrain?
Any difference in articulation?

 

[thkbaron]

That’s a very good point.

I would think the 1/2” might help with re centering your axle after leveling/lifting. Wasn’t that kinda the rule of thumb with 3rd gens after a leveling kit to really center everything was 1/2” long control arms. I know the suspensions are different long arm/short arm vs radius arm but I feel the concept is the same.

Lifting the suspension but keeping the radius arm/ links the same pulls the axle back, even if it’s just slightly. Everyone combats this by adjusting their caster but this seems to be a simple fix to that.

Now I’m no engineer nor do I have much background in building or racing suspensions, so if I’m missing something let me know.

Sophia original comment about moving the axle that happened for where it was the combat a lift that I totally understand it

 

[thkbaron]

Trail Wagon. Nice write up. I would like to ask for the group....I have zero intention of swapping my arms out......what do you think the longevity of the joints are? Is one better than the other? Obviously there are maintenance factors involved.

 

[Trail_Wagon]

Trail wagon,
Thanks for the info.
Little clarification.
Are you saying there is no difference on road?
Or no difference period, doesn't matter the terrain?
Any difference in articulation?

In terms of noise, vibration, and harshness being transmitted into the cabin.... there is no difference on any terrain, on or off road.

The OEM stuff can articulate just as much as the aftermarket stuff (with shocks designed for a 4" lift).... but it comes at a cost. You can hear and feel the bolt spin at the extremes of articulation. after a while it wears the knurled ends of the vulcanized bushings smooth. There are loud pops. You can hear lots of groaning, and complaining. But, the bushing seem to take it well and I've never had a factory bushing fail. You can "feel" the binding... thats a hard one to explain... it just feels like its under tension. Kinda stiff I guess.

The MC and JJ control arms both smoothly glide from one extreme of articulation to the next... You can often hear the springs rubbing the frame or twisting in their buckets, but the joints are drama free. In these situations, the jeep feels buttery smooth compared to the OEM stuff. This has a much more lively feel to it... you don't feel like you are doing damage.

Longevity...
Okay, so I have never had an OEM joint fail... but they do start getting pretty sloppy after about 15-20k off road miles. Its just a little shudder you can feel when going over bumps and such... but it takes away from the overall feeling. I have a huge pile of new take off control arms, so I just replace them when they start getting loose.

The Johnny joints do eventually squeak, but I've never had one of those fail either. durability is top notch and they always felt tight. The control arms outlasted the jeep (about 30k miles) and were eventually taken off and sold.

The MC joints... I really wanted to love them... but I've had all of the joints in all 8 control arms completely fail at 10k miles. By fail I mean the metal tube that runs through the dura-joint rips completely free of the surrounding rubber. Even metalcloak seemed genuinely surprised by this failure. They (MC) are very easy to work with and sent me a replacement set for free... but those failed too at about the same mileage. This is not here to trash metalcloak... they actually offer a great product and incredible service... but thier joints are not appropriate for fleet duty. I've taken MC control arms off of my fleet and one set now lives happily on my personal jeep. I have no complaints with them.

So for what its worth all of my jeeps are on factory control arms, the MC stuff is on my daily driver, the JJ stuff has been sold. I learned this...

Upgraded control arm joints are nice... precise handling, smooth articulation, durability in a regular use setting, but don't expect magic from them. The biggest benefit they offer is adjustability, serviceability, and durability.

 

[thkbaron]

I mean really at the end of the day most of the wagons are mall crawlers like mine. We will all be fine. Haha

 

[Trail_Wagon]

@Lumpskie could that difference be in solely having the sway bar disconnected? The OP in that thread had a carli sway bar and I’ll go out on a limb and say trail_wagon probably had his disconnected in that photo

Yes, the front sway bar was disconnected and the rear sway bar has been removed. The truck is also teetering on two wheels in that pic.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

I mean really at the end of the day most of the wagons are mall crawlers like mine. We will all be fine. Haha

I use mine off road in Baja and soon to be in northern Nevada. Not just a mall crawler. Several other PW owners use theirs as well. And lots of videos on youtube of PWs hitting the hard trails in MOAB.

 

[thkbaron]

Yeah I don’t live in an area that has great trails but when gas drops a bit I have full intentions of doing so.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

Came across this product. Its intended application is to replace one of the upper control arms on their 4 link Y arms.

They have animations and such so I won’t try to explain it too much.

Lock-N-Load Replacement Upper Arm for Radius Suspension, Ram 2500 ('14 - Current)

The Patented MetalCloak Lock-n-Load™ Upper Control Arm for the RAM Game Changer Radius Arm Suspension (metalcloakpatents.com) is precision engineered to solve a common problem with radius arm suspensions: Bind Features Include: Bolt On Installation Eliminates Radius Arm Bind Dual-Purpose...

metalcloak.com

 

[UglyViking]

Came across this product. Its intended application is to replace one of the upper control arms on their 4 link Y arms.

They have animations and such so I won’t try to explain it too much.

Lock-N-Load Replacement Upper Arm for Radius Suspension, Ram 2500 ('14 - Current)

The Patented MetalCloak Lock-n-Load™ Upper Control Arm for the RAM Game Changer Radius Arm Suspension (metalcloakpatents.com) is precision engineered to solve a common problem with radius arm suspensions: Bind Features Include: Bolt On Installation Eliminates Radius Arm Bind Dual-Purpose...

metalcloak.com

That's a pretty freaking slick idea. My only wish is they were easier to lock in place, looks like I'd have to drop down into the dirt/mud/snow and wrench that open and closed.

Past that they look dope

 

[Crusty old shellback]

You're a bit late to the party. Theres actually a thread on them on this website.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

You're a bit late to the party. Theres actually a thread on them on this website.

The thread with 1 reply?