AEV suspension discussion thread

[Crusty old shellback]

On my stock '21 Power wagon running BFG 35's, I have noticed some bump steer at times on the highway, usually on a curve with a rough road. It's not excessive, but if you are not used to bump steer, you might get a little pucker factor.
I had bump steer on my K5 Blazer so am used to it. I did cross over steering on it, but not high steer, so it gave me a little bump steer in certain occasions.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

You can’t get rid of bump steer on a solid axle rig that has a steering box mounted on the frame and has a drag link to the knuckle.

You can change it, you can make it better or worse, but you can’t eliminate it. It’s just geometry/ trigonometry and you can’t defeat it. Having a super flat steering setup would give very little bump steer and a steeper angle would have more bump steer but your solid drag link is going to push your knuckle around as it travels. The drop pitman arm serves to make the steering angle (drag link angle) flatter. You also want your drag link parallel to your track bar for best result. I imagine the AEV kit has the least amount of bump steer out of all the 3” lift kit options because of the drop pitman arm and trackbar being raised/relocated

theoretically, to eliminate it, you could mount a steering rack on the axle itself but this isn’t feasible because the axle moves and the steering input shaft wouldn’t work. Full hydro isn’t a good idea on the road or street legal to my knowledge, but the ram on the axle with no drag link would eliminate bump steer although possibly introducing other problems that are worse

 

[2manyprojects]

It's interesting to go back and read each vendor's (AEV, Thuren, Carli) descriptions and tech info for their kits, in the context of fitting 37" tires. AEV created their product specifically for 37's (and 40's); Thuren and Carli give good explanations of the issues going up to that size and recommendations for trimming to accomplish it.

Said another way, if I hadn't decided up front I wanted to run a 37" tire, I would likely have discounted the AEV kit pretty quickly. Wanting 37's and something that accommodates the upper payload/towing use while not losing ride or performance overall from stock is what got me to it.

I think each vendor makes outstanding products, but no one makes a universal "best" suspension. AEV took a different approach to a specific goal, rather than make products for a range of interests. Unfortunately, no vendor is going to encourage ala carte suspension building between competitors, so we're here debating.

To be completely honest, the most noticeable component I've added to my truck after tires was the Thuren torsion sway bar. You poor Power Wagon guys don't know what you're missing, stuck with that "digital" solution.... (adjusting body armor now...)

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

To be completely honest, the most noticeable component I've added to my truck after tires was the Thuren torsion sway bar. You poor Power Wagon guys don't know what you're missing, stuck with that "digital" solution.... (adjusting body armor now...)

Deleted mine a while back. Extremely happy with the way the truck handles.

 

[Lumpskie]

Flex difference between a 5th gen ram and 3rd gen, well carli or not I don't know that it's remotely close to a fair comparison. I'd be much more interested in a same gen comparison between the bunch. 3rd gens have short arm 4 links up front, and coilovers. Plus the swaybar connected vs no bar is sort of an unfair comparison. That said, perhaps that mod alone is enough to make the AEV setup comparable. I'll be honest though, I wouldn't want to run my truck as a daily without a sway bar, a bit too loose around the corners for my taste.

Who here has a bone stock 5th gen and lives in NH and wants to have a test? (joking, unless someone is available…)

Great point. The 3rd gen suspension flexes much better than the radius arm in our newer rigs. Radius arms, by definition, bind and resist articulation. That is why I mentioned the test. Is it apples to apples? No way. But, getting a radius arm rig to flex better than a 4 link is pretty hard to do... especially if you want to spend under $500. For the budget minded individual, I would guess that only buying the PW radius arm would let you out flex any suspension kit on the market.

I get you on the cornering feel as well... I do get some body roll. I guess daily driving rock crawlers for the last 10 years has dulled my nerves when it comes to that. I will say that keeping that roll center and instant center in the same relative position makes everything feel really natural, predictable and safe. I've driven many lifted rigs that don't correct for that and suffer from unpredictable handling.

One thing I'd be curious on is to see if you get better than my stock 16.5" climb out of your rig. I'm guessing you will but have no idea how high your rig would be able to climb. That would really show the effect of springs and shocks, separate from all the other changes.

 

[UglyViking]

Great point. The 3rd gen suspension flexes much better than the radius arm in our newer rigs. Radius arms, by definition, bind and resist articulation. That is why I mentioned the test. Is it apples to apples? No way. But, getting a radius arm rig to flex better than a 4 link is pretty hard to do... especially if you want to spend under $500. For the budget minded individual, I would guess that only buying the PW radius arm would let you out flex any suspension kit on the market.

I get you on the cornering feel as well... I do get some body roll. I guess daily driving rock crawlers for the last 10 years has dulled my nerves when it comes to that. I will say that keeping that roll center and instant center in the same relative position makes everything feel really natural, predictable and safe. I've driven many lifted rigs that don't correct for that and suffer from unpredictable handling.

One thing I'd be curious on is to see if you get better than my stock 16.5" climb out of your rig. I'm guessing you will but have no idea how high your rig would be able to climb. That would really show the effect of springs and shocks, separate from all the other changes.

We should do that test at some point if you're up for it. It would be cool to measure based off the same setup so it's "apples to apples", at least as much as realistic.

I suspect that if the Carli equipped 3rd gen detached his sway bar he would put both of us to shame. Even still, I would assume your truck rides better overall than that 3500.

 

[Lumpskie]

We should do that test at some point if you're up for it. It would be cool to measure based off the same setup so it's "apples to apples", at least as much as realistic.

I suspect that if the Carli equipped 3rd gen detached his sway bar he would put both of us to shame. Even still, I would assume your truck rides better overall than that 3500.

I am game! Do you know of a good ramp spot? (my buddies trailer is out transporting cars somewhere now) Without his swaybar, I'm guessing my buddy could get 3 inches more of vertical climb. I was on my bump stop on the front compression side and he still had 1.5" of space there.

 

[UglyViking]

I am game! Do you know of a good ramp spot? (my buddies trailer is out transporting cars somewhere now) Without his swaybar, I'm guessing my buddy could get 3 inches more of vertical climb. I was on my bump stop on the front compression side and he still had 1.5" of space there.

I don't know of a good spot off the top of my head, but guessing there is a loading doc somewhere that someone wouldn't mind us using. Otherwise I'm sure I can find someone with a forklift

 

[JPNHigh]

I'm not going to add to much to convo but for my needs/uses the AEV lift on my 3500 rear air truck is awesome. I am not crawling off road, running dunes but using it when I need to haul a trailer. If the truck does get used empty it is because we are hitting a family trip to the beach or hitting the mountains. I left my 4th gen stock ride height and tire size due to the 3.42 gearing and did not want to go through that cost. With the 4.5 gen and the HO with 3.73 gears the 37"s look and act great. No problems with the lift, installed it myself at my place and am pleased with the increased ride comfort. The 37's soaks up the road and I still haul anything I need.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

I'm not going to add to much to convo but for my needs/uses the AEV lift on my 3500 rear air truck is awesome. I am not crawling off road, running dunes but using it when I need to haul a trailer. If the truck does get used empty it is because we are hitting a family trip to the beach or hitting the mountains. I left my 4th gen stock ride height and tire size due to the 3.42 gearing and did not want to go through that cost. With the 4.5 gen and the HO with 3.73 gears the 37"s look and act great. No problems with the lift, installed it myself at my place and am pleased with the increased ride comfort. The 37's soaks up the road and I still haul anything I need.View attachment 37898View attachment 37899View attachment 37900View attachment 37901

I agree, It would suit my needs better than the other kits currently available on the market. It is not a bad kit by any means.

I just have a personal mental block against some of the bracketry that prevents me from liking the kit.

 

[ShadowMTN]

Based on this entire thread, AEV has almost been mentioned 350 times. I didn't have time to read everything but I think its helped me to decide that AEV is the way to go! or is it?

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

Based on this entire thread, AEV has almost been mentioned 350 times. I didn't have time to read everything but I think its helped me to decide that AEV is the way to go! or is it?

That’s what you got from all this? lol.

It’s a decent kit. You have to decide what the best kit is for you. There is no universal best kit

 

[ShadowMTN]

That’s what you got from all this? lol.

It’s a decent kit. You have to decide what the best kit is for you. There is no universal best kit

I was only kidding there...... Having had Jeep's, Landcrusier's and now an HD it's fun to see how the suspension discussions follow every platform and everyone has a opinion.

 

[UglyViking]

I'm not going to add to much to convo but for my needs/uses the AEV lift on my 3500 rear air truck is awesome. I am not crawling off road, running dunes but using it when I need to haul a trailer. If the truck does get used empty it is because we are hitting a family trip to the beach or hitting the mountains. I left my 4th gen stock ride height and tire size due to the 3.42 gearing and did not want to go through that cost. With the 4.5 gen and the HO with 3.73 gears the 37"s look and act great. No problems with the lift, installed it myself at my place and am pleased with the increased ride comfort. The 37's soaks up the road and I still haul anything I need.View attachment 37898View attachment 37899View attachment 37900View attachment 37901

I hear what you're saying, but in my eyes the 3500 platform has even less reason to choose an AEV kit over the 2500. Alas, we have been over the same points so I won't go over them again.

That said, I'm digging that two tone front bumper. If you had told me what you did without pictures I would have thought "no way" but looking at it finished and it looks great!

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

I hear what you're saying, but in my eyes the 3500 platform has even less reason to choose an AEV kit over the 2500. Alas, we have been over the same points so I won't go over them again.

That said, I'm digging that two tone front bumper. If you had told me what you did without pictures I would have thought "no way" but looking at it finished and it looks great!

I totally missed while that trying to peep the garage lift setup

 

[Eatonpcat]

I totally missed while that trying to peep the garage lift setup

That said, I'm digging that two tone front bumper. If you had told me what you did without pictures I would have thought "no way" but looking at it finished and it looks great!

I had to go back to the pictures to check out both!

 

[Crusty old shellback]

I don't know of a good spot off the top of my head, but guessing there is a loading doc somewhere that someone wouldn't mind us using. Otherwise I'm sure I can find someone with a forklift

If you can measure the angle of the loading ramp you use and the height traveled, then maybe I can play along too. I have a loading ramp here at work. I can measure the angle with my angle finder, then drive up it to the point I spin and measure at the center of the tire to the ground with swaybar connected and disconnected.

That would give you a 3rd reference of the difference between the PW articulink suspension and stock or modified 2500/3500 suspension.

 

[Lumpskie]

If you can measure the angle of the loading ramp you use and the height traveled, then maybe I can play along too. I have a loading ramp here at work. I can measure the angle with my angle finder, then drive up it to the point I spin and measure at the center of the tire to the ground with swaybar connected and disconnected.

That would give you a 3rd reference of the difference between the PW articulink suspension and stock or modified 2500/3500 suspension.

That is a great idea. It would be interesting to see how the softer spring rate and full articulink vs Ugly's softer spring rate/non articulink vs my HD spring/half articulink.

In case anyone needs one... here's the best RTI calculator that I know of:

Ramp Travel Index (RTI) Calculators

www.therangerstation.com

 

[UglyViking]

Oh this is a great idea. We should put together a list of everyone that want's to play along.

I'll spin up a separate thread to track this in a table as everyone does this, later today probably.

 

[JimInHB]

Speaking as a Prospector XL owner who has spent more than a few hours off roading pretty hard - harder than my service tech likes, hard enough to be shaking parts off & loose, etc. - I know I could get a softer ride but I’ve also thrown a literal ton of cargo in the bed a few times and I quite appreciate that they did not compromise the cargo carrying capacity of the truck since I do both. I may upgrade my shocks to the 8100s they’re now selling, and I totally get why folks might swap in lower rate or other springs for a softer ride, but I would not choose to soften it further at the expense of cargo capacity and having steering geometry that retains daily driver capability and normal vehicle width, etc. running 40s is not something I would trade. Call me an AEV fanboy but I’d buy this truck again as-is.