AEV suspension discussion thread

[Rockcrawlindude]

Also, I don't want to speak for you here but it seems beyond clear that you do indeed have a dog in the fight here, at least admit it to yourself if not us

He does have a dog in the fight because he paid somebody a whole lot of money to install that big ol box of relocation brackets on his truck and he wants to feel like he got something more than 4 new bilsteins.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

@UglyViking - thanks for starting this thread and I am also looking forward to a wonderful discussion with all of you. I am pretty confident we all will learn a bit from each other simply by keeping the argumentative heat turned down. If I could start of by stating that my decision to purchase the AEV suspension upgrade for my vehicle was based primarily on what I believed was best for my application after years of research and decades of off-roading. If I truly believed another company such as Carli or Thuren would meet my needs better I would have selected one of their kits without hesitation. On that note I believe it would be good to begin with what AEV says about their two suspension systems:

3″ DualSport RT Suspension for 2019+ Ram HD​

Engineered for the Real World​

Today’s marketplace offers dozens of solutions for anyone looking to modify their truck’s suspension, from mild to wild and everywhere in between. There are suspensions designed for going fast, suspensions with flashy components designed for looking good standing still and even suspensions designed for rock crawling that maximize axle articulation and wheel travel. There is nothing wrong with having lots of options but what about a well-engineered, properly tuned suspension system that is designed for the people who rely on their truck every day in the real world and the people who also don’t want to sacrifice payload, ride quality or handling just to fit larger tires?

The DualSport RT Formula​

AEV’s 3” DualSport RT Suspension System for the 2019+ Ram 2500/3500 is focused on optimizing geometry and custom shock tuning to deliver the best on and off-road performance. This starts in the front end, where Rams come standard with dozens of different spring rates on HD trucks, depending on powertrain, wheelbase, and more, so offering a generic “gas” or “diesel” spring would have been a huge compromise in ride quality and/or load carrying capacity. AEV retains the factory front coil springs and pair them with 3” cast aluminum coil spring relocation spacers to achieve the additional lift height. This allows AEV to take advantage of the full range of factory spring rates and frequencies while still providing the necessary front end lift.

Steering geometry is corrected by way of AEV’s High Steer Kit, which includes a custom, no-drill forged drag link, AEV track bar and raised track bar tower. This system provides significant improvements to steering precision and handling by correcting the roll center height of the front suspension and bringing the steering geometry back into factory alignment. This results in reduced body roll and bump steer, which are major contributors to the loose or sloppy steering and driver fatigue commonly associated with many lift kits.

For many of the same reasons that we chose to retain the factory front coil springs, 2” rear coil spring spacers are included with Ram 2500 suspension systems to provide the necessary lift height without sacrificing ride quality or load carrying capacity. AEV also includes a set of bump stop spacers, rear track bar relocation bracket, sway bar end links and a new power hop bracket (if applicable). The OE leaf springs are retained and new cast iron blocks are installed to provide 2” of lift in the rear on Ram 3500 trucks. Ram 2500 Air Ride and 3500 Air Assist systems are also available.

AEV/Bilstein 5100 series shock absorbers are included with all DualSport Suspension Systems. These shocks feature a custom tune developed jointly by Bilstein and AEV engineers exclusively for AEV’s DualSport Suspensions Systems. By utilizing digressive valving, the AEV/Bilstein 5100 shocks offer substantial low-speed dampening. The dampening decreases as vehicle speed increases, providing a great ride quality over a wide variety of terrain.

Front Axle Relocation Kit​

The factory radius arms are repositioned for optimal geometry, moving the axle forward 1.0”, which was engineered to use a 37″ tire. This provides a more neutral impact response, while also allowing more clearance for larger tires. A billet aluminum front driveshaft spacer is included to accommodate the new front axle positioning. We also offer a 1.6″ Axle Forward Kit, which was engineered to use a 40″ tire.

ProCal SNAP​

AEV ProCal SNAP is a simple, electronic recalibration module that plugs into your vehicle’s OBDII diagnostic port. It utilizes the stereo’s audio equalizer to input the numerical values for your new tire size- saving you time and money by not having to make a trip to the dealership for speedometer recalibration. The ProCal SNAP also has the ability to recalibrate TPMS and to accommodate for axle gear ratio changes.

For additional peace of mind, this DualSport Suspension System is backed by AEV’s Lifetime Warranty!

---

3″ DualSport XP Suspension for 2019+ Ram HD​

Engineered for the real world…and beyond.​

Today’s marketplace offers dozens of solutions for anyone looking to modify their truck’s suspension, from mild to wild and everywhere in between. There are suspensions designed for going fast, suspensions with flashy components designed for looking good standing still and even suspensions designed for rock crawling that maximize axle articulation and wheel travel. There is nothing wrong with having lots of options but what about a well-engineered, properly tuned suspension system that is designed for the people who rely on their truck every day in the real world and the people who also don’t want to sacrifice payload, ride quality or handling just to fit larger tires?

AEV’s 3” DualSport XP Suspension System for the 2019+ Ram 2500/3500 is focused on optimizing suspension/steering geometry and application-specific shock tuning to deliver the best possible on-road comfort and handling while also providing an ever broader spectrum of off-road performance, thanks to the AEV/Bilstein XP8100 Reservoir Shocks that are included in this system!

The DualSport XP Formula​

HD Rams trucks are built with literally dozens of different spring rates based on the powertrain, wheelbase, options and more, so offering a generic “gas” or “diesel” spring would have been a huge compromise in ride quality and/or load carrying capacity. AEV retains the factory front coil springs and pair them with 3” cast aluminum coil spring relocation spacers to achieve the additional lift height. This allows AEV to take advantage of the full range of factory spring rates and frequencies while still providing the necessary front end lift.

AEV/Bilstein XP8100 Reservoir Shocks are included with the DualSport XP Suspension System. These 66mm reservoir shocks are constructed from aerospace quality billet components and tuned by AEV to work in perfect harmony with your outfitted HD Ram. When we tune shocks, we use the same target weight as our Prospector/Prospector XL turn-key conversions to ensure that you get the absolute best possible ride quality and handling, without the degradation in performance, commonly associated with the added weight of bumpers, winch, full size spare, tent, etc.

Steering geometry is corrected by way of AEV’s High Steer Kit, which includes a custom, no-drill forged drag link, AEV track bar and raised track bar tower. This system provides significant improvements to steering precision and handling by correcting the roll center height of the front suspension and bringing the steering geometry back into factory alignment. This results in reduced body roll and bump steer, which are major contributors to the loose or sloppy steering and driver fatigue commonly associated with many lift kits.

For many of the same reasons that we chose to retain the factory front coil springs, 2” rear coil spring spacers are included with Ram 2500 suspension systems to provide the necessary lift height without sacrificing ride quality or load carrying capacity. AEV also includes a set of bump stop spacers, rear track bar relocation bracket, sway bar end links and a new power hop bracket (if applicable). The OE leaf springs are retained, and new cast iron blocks are installed to provide 2” of lift in the rear on Ram 3500 trucks. Ram 2500 Air Ride and 3500 Air Assist systems are also available.

Front Axle Relocation Kit​

The factory radius arms are repositioned for optimal geometry, moving the axle forward 1.0”, which was engineered to use a 37″ tire. This provides a more neutral impact response, while also allowing more clearance for larger tires. A billet aluminum front driveshaft spacer is included to accommodate the new front axle positioning. We also offer a 1.6″ Axle Forward Kit, which was engineered to use a 40″ tire.

For additional peace of mind, the DualSport XP Suspension System is backed by AEV’s Lifetime Warranty!

Reading between the lines on this verbiage from the manufacturer sounds like this:

Our hands were tied by the OEM to very strict guidelines if we wanted to offer the prospector as an upfitter vehicle through the dealer. We were required to reuse many of their components, So, this kit is the best we could come up with.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

Looked thru the installation instructions this morning for the 3 inch lift on the front.

Looks like they built something as least expensive as they could.
I say this because rather than welding the bracket pieces together, they bolt together. Then you bolt them onto the truck.

And there sure is a lot of cutting and grinding on the spring buckets. That's one spot I'd rather beef up, or at least make the snout taller for the spring to set on and not have a chance of popping out rather than cut it up.

I don't remember who's kit it is, but one of them has a longer snout for the spring to sit on for this reason.

 

[Trail_Wagon]

One thing I don't get... to clear 37's they move the front axle forward... which is great. Extra wheelbase matters when your rig only has 12 and half feet.. but I have 37's with AEV katlas on an otherwise factory PW and the tire uses every bit of the opening. It rubs slighly on the rear, and it rubs slightly on the front. There isn't room to move anything forward. I guess they require the whole package with bumpers and flares?

 

[UglyViking]

Looked thru the installation instructions this morning for the 3 inch lift on the front.

Looks like they built something as least expensive as they could.
I say this because rather than welding the bracket pieces together, they bolt together. Then you bolt them onto the truck.

And there sure is a lot of cutting and grinding on the spring buckets. That's one spot I'd rather beef up, or at least make the snout taller for the spring to set on and not have a chance of popping out rather than cut it up.

I don't remember who's kit it is, but one of them has a longer snout for the spring to sit on for this reason.

Carli dominator kit beefs up that top spring with their "Coil Isolator Supports". It's a pretty slick setup for sure.

“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.” ~ Euripides

As of this moment I'm not sure that you're talking much in the way of facts. So far you've managed to copy and paste AEVs marketing material, a video by the CEO detailing/defending their suspension setup. You also mentioned a few books, yet haven't broken down any of the details from said books yet.

I'm not sure what sense you've talked so far as the biggest defense of the AEV suspension setup thus far has been "designed by real engineers", but haven't explained anything beyond that.

Also, I can quote people as well

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

One thing I don't get... to clear 37's they move the front axle forward... which is great. Extra wheelbase matters when your rig only has 12 and half feet.. but I have 37's with AEV katlas on an otherwise factory PW and the tire uses every bit of the opening. It rubs slighly on the rear, and it rubs slightly on the front. There isn't room to move anything forward. I guess they require the whole package with bumpers and flares?

I believe it may have been something to do with attempting to get as close to factory geometry as possible. Keep in mind that the pivot point for the radius arm is well behind the wheel well. Because of this as you raise your static position up you're moving the wheel further back and down. The factory power wagon has something like 2" of front lift. The Carli kit has ~3.5" and they use a radius arm drop, which I believe would also help with clearance in addition to it's stated use of re-centering the axle and reducing coil "bow". The Carli 2.5" level and Thuren 1"-2.75" front coils don't use drops, so perhaps 3" is the magic number where it starts to become something you need to address. This is more or less a semi-educated guess.

Also, I haven't seen anyone run AEVs lift without their bumpers, I'm sure it's happened but I've not seen it. Perhaps trimming is required without their bumpers?

From their website this is their explanation of why they need to move the axle forward: "Moving the front axle forward restores/center’s the axle’s position relative to the wheel well opening, maximizing tire clearance near the body."

 

[Trail_Wagon]

Carli dominator kit beefs up that top spring with their "Coil Isolator Supports". It's a pretty slick setup for sure.


As of this moment I'm not sure that you're talking much in the way of facts. So far you've managed to copy and paste AEVs marketing material, a video by the CEO detailing/defending their suspension setup. You also mentioned a few books, yet haven't broken down any of the details from said books yet.

I'm not sure what sense you've talked so far as the biggest defense of the AEV suspension setup thus far has been "designed by real engineers", but haven't explained anything beyond that.

Also, I can quote people as well

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein


I believe it may have been something to do with attempting to get as close to factory geometry as possible. Keep in mind that the pivot point for the radius arm is well behind the wheel well. Because of this as you raise your static position up you're moving the wheel further back and down. The factory power wagon has something like 2" of front lift. The Carli kit has ~3.5" and they use a radius arm drop, which I believe would also help with clearance in addition to it's stated use of re-centering the axle and reducing coil "bow". The Carli 2.5" level and Thuren 1"-2.75" front coils don't use drops, so perhaps 3" is the magic number where it starts to become something you need to address. This is more or less a semi-educated guess.

Also, I haven't seen anyone run AEVs lift without their bumpers, I'm sure it's happened but I've not seen it. Perhaps trimming is required without their bumpers?

From their website this is their explanation of why they need to move the axle forward: "Moving the front axle forward restores/center’s the axle’s position relative to the wheel well opening, maximizing tire clearance near the body."

As for the response to me... this is a 37 on factory suspension fully flexed... There just isnt more room to move the axle forward. But, as you stated, the bumper is a problem, the body has miles of clearance. But it should be noted, if you stretch it, plan on a new bumper.



Also, if you had extended bump stops for longer shocks, the tire would be another 1-2" down, creating more clearance.

 

[UglyViking]

As for the response to me... this is a 37 on factory suspension fully flexed... There just isnt more room to move the axle forward. But, as you stated, the bumper is a problem, the body has miles of clearance. But it should be noted, if you stretch it, plan on a new bumper.

View attachment 37146

Also, if you had extended bump stops for longer shocks, the tire would be another 1-2" down, creating more clearance.

Man, that is about as tight as you could possibly get. Haha

 

[Brutal_HO]

If there was a way for a mod to put 2 members on each other's ignore list, I have a few in mind.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

So if you lift the truck too high, and you dont drop the radius arms low enough, then you have to use a spacer to move the axle forward to recenter it in the wheelwell .

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

So if you lift the truck too high, and you dont drop the radius arms low enough, then you have to use a spacer to move the axle forward to recenter it in the wheelwell .

Don’t forget the driveshaft spacer they give you in that kit.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

A lot of the lift kits for IFS 4X4's use a spacer between the half shafts and the pumpkin. But I think they do that more to keep the pumpkin tucked up higher in the truck, not because they moved the pumpkin forward.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

Last night while scanning youtube, found a few good videos on the Carli suspension for the RAM HDs. Worth a look.

 

[2manyprojects]

I chose the AEV Dualsport poser suspension mostly for the confused, self-conscious looks I get from Power Wagon pilots when I look down at them and they see the Cummins badges on my truck....

Seriously, I'm hesitant to weigh in here as most seem to have their opinion locked and really critical of the AEV kit, without much more than reading the website...

My perspective FWIW; I've got 20k miles on the suspension, 10K towing our trailer. We just completed a 2mo / 6600mi tour of the Southwest, including trails in Death Valley NP, AZ, and NM. I put the 1st 3k on the stock truck / 245/17 tires and 300 miles w/the 37's/ Salta wheels prior to the lift.

I've been a Toyota guy since the '80s; still have two LC's and a 1st gen 4Runner for wheeling. Wife and I have been camping for the last 18yrs in a 60 Series V-8 powered LC w/ RTT, since before "overlanding" was a word. Two years ago, we decided to move up to an RV, ultimately picking an Aussie caravan (26 ft trailer, 8300 lb loaded, 10k GVW, 1140 lb tongue wt). Our 2017 Chev Colorado Z71 D'max while a great vehicle, just wasn't up to the task. A new truck was approved for purchase, specifically for towing this trailer.

I wanted a Power Wagon in the worst way, but quickly realized the limited payload and gas-only wouldn't fly for our needs. While nothing surpasses the response and growl of a gas V-8, the Cummins just made sense and is lot more "relaxed" when towing. A base 2020 Tradesman w/ Cummins and towing pkg was located and I convinced the Wife the stripped truck could be built more economically than paying extra for options we didn't need/want. I got the truck 6 months before getting the trailer, and needed it to be ready for towing.



One mod extremely important to me was increasing fuel capacity. 37" tires seemed appropriate for clearance w/o totally killing economy (they're the new 35's!), and a Titan spare aux tank (30gal) made sense to fill the spare tire void where a 37" wouldn't fit anyway. The tank enables 61 total gal on-board, but adds 250 lb to the rear axle, providing easy 500mi towing /1000mi truck range. Fill-up $$$ aside, the tank has been great. Adding recovery gear, toys like folding mtn bikes, inflatable kayaks, and golf clubs are all pushing payload to max for a 2500.

For suspension, I researched like everyone Carli, Thuren, ..., my issue being diesel w/ high static payload, and needing a balance between good stable on-road manners without losing too much off-road. I have no illusions of rock-crawling or chasing desert race trucks for hours, but want a rig that can tolerate FS roads, gravel, and 2-track where it can fit. Most seemed oriented toward unloaded high-speed travel, and only tolerant of occasional heavy loads. Overall:

Running 37s on the stock suspension: ride was marginal, they barely fit close in front, but would likely have caused damage if it fully stuffed; didn't want to cut/trim/pound in clearance on the brand new truck.

2"+ leveling w/stock rear: concerned rear droop w/ trailer would point the front way too high; also wanted some rear lift to accommodate tall tongue height of trailer; not sure what softer springs in front would do when fully loaded for stability.

Ultimately my decision came down to these:

• When I ala-carte'd @ Carli or Thuren the components included in the AEV kit (front radius arm drop, front track bar, rear track bar drop, sway bar drops, ProCal tuner, ...), the cost quickly matched or exceeded the AEV kit. I know this is a somewhat bogus comparison as there are quality differences, but I don't consider the AEV components substandard, and again I'm not desert racing or building a dedicated rock crawler. Springs and shocks are almost consumables and I figure my new OEM springs and the Bilsteins in the AEV kit are acceptable baseline parts to start with; springs are actually relatively inexpensive components. For the record, I added a Thuren torsion swaybar to the AEV kit, and it immediately made a noticeable positive change to the front; the Thuren team was extremely helpful to me fitting it up.
• With a new truck (<3k miles) under warranty I valued a lift which has some OEM connection (AEV Prospector) and some form of dealer network. This may be a pipe dream considering Ram dealer service, but I figure it provides some "legitimacy" if any issue comes up. This is the first time I didn't install a lift myself, but given I can't fit my truck in my garage and it was winter, I was further "enticed" to hire this out. I had the previous reamed steering link knuckle, which the installer noted looseness during the post-install re-torque check. They worked with AEV and ultimately replaced the knuckle per the latest kit version. I've been satisfied.
• A minor, simpler lift may have worked for me, but considering the available options to fit 37's on my truck with some rear lift, the 3" AEV seemed the most comprehensive for the price point. Carli undoubtedly offers more/better for 3"+ lift, but at a substantially higher premium I just couldn't justify.

So, I bought into the AEV Dualsport suspension; perhaps that makes me a poser / mall crawler. It is a "spacer" lift, but calling it that is like calling a Power Wagon a "big jeep". I'm able to tow w/o a weight distributing hitch or airbags and still have excellent stability in high winds and/or pavement speeds way faster than prudent. I have no illusions that I'm going to rockcrawl this rig on extreme trails, but I have clearance and articulation that allows me to take it into places most other comparable size trailers won't touch without damage or getting hung up. By no means is the AEV kit the "best" suspension, but I've been pleased with it's performance for my purposes. I've learned everything is a compromise, and ultimately these trucks are limited by their size. I believe my truck w/AEV suspension is "better" than stock, quantified by a good "OEM+" pavement ride, no compromise towing capability, better ground clearance, equal but more usable stock articulation, while enabling better than stock off-road capability, for a diesel truck. It's never going to be a Power Wagon, but a Power Wagon isn't going to ever be as happy or efficient with these loads in this application.

I agree with most everything Viking stated in his initial post, but believe there is a place for the AEV suspension.

 

[UglyViking]

@2manyprojects Just a few observations from your post, but before I do I want to state something. I won't speak for everyone here but at least for myself the reason to have the discussion around the AEV suspension is to A) learn more for anyone willing to give detailed explanations of why AEV does what they do and B) to have a discussion around the kit so I can better guide others as they ask for feedback and advice. I like learning and understanding, even if it doesn't have a direct practical application to my current truck because who knows how it might in my future truck?

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, hopefully others will have a discussion as well. I think you hit the nail on the head on the power wagon vs OEM+.

Now, on to a few observations.

#1 - Your needs make sense and I understood why you went AEV. I personally think I may have just stuck with a standard "leveling" kit, but I get the desire for ground clearance on these long wheelbase trucks (not something we actually discussed in the pros/cons so good callout!) and ability to match your trailers hitch point (which, holy cow how does any truck line up? So I think overall for your use case it seems like a great fit. Do I think you could have gotten better performance from another kit? Absolutely. I think the Carli R2 coils would do basically the same thing the AEV kit does but with a vastly increased ride. I do think you should make sure to paint pen all your bolts from the AEV suspension though. Just as a confirmation step.

#2 - No cutting on a new truck I get, but there was cutting, you just didn't see it or do it. The old AEV kit didn't come with a knuckle, and the price was cheaper and easier to argue for, but the issue was that for whatever reason drilling out the knuckle for the flip resulted in a lot of them becoming loose. I'm guessing improper installation but who knows. Anyway, sounds like that was taken care of for you and is a non, issue, which is awesome. That said, the current version does require you to cut the coil spring mount on the drivers side. Perhaps something you or others are more comfortable doing, but frankly I don't see an issue trimming a bit of the pinch weld to clear vs not. This is going to be highly dependent on wheel offset, true tire size, and lift height, but just calling out that there was serious trimming done.

#3 - Cost. I'll be honest here, everyone is in a different financial position and chooses to spend their money in different areas. That said, Considering the truck is a 55k+ truck, the trailer is a 65k+ trailer and you've got the same amount invested in wheels and tires no matter what brand lift you go with, I struggle to be all that concerned with the difference in price between the AEV and Thuren vs Carli. Just for the sake of example I put together some quick builds:

• Thuren build - $2,770
  • Fox 2.0 shocks, 2.75" front springs, +1" rear springs, rear trackbar, Fox 2.0 steering damper
• Carli build - $3,585
  • 3.25" commuter system, radius arm drops, front 3.25" springs, rear ~2" springs, Fox 2.0 shocks, track bar, bump stop drops
• AEV build- $2,919
  • Everyone should probably know what is in here since it's a 1 size kit so I won't list.

To be completely transparent, I think for the use case you stated Thuren is not the way you want to go, the springs are way too soft unless you are 100% planning on adding bags. I also didn't account for the procal on the Thuren/Carli builds, so for the sake of argument add another $170 to both.

Even still, you're talking a difference of ~ $1,000 for the AEV vs Carli. As you've stated it's not worth it for you, but I think it's a vastly better system in basically every way, but perhaps overkill for what you're looking for.

Ok, now that I got that out of the way. I really want to know how the camper has treated you? I've seen those things online and they look really cool. Saw one down in south carolina this year and it looked slick at least from the road. Hows using it? And second, did you have the titan spare tire tank in this photo? I've been looking at one but it looks like it hangs way down from photos I've seen online. Any chance you have any other pics?

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

I chose the AEV Dualsport poser suspension mostly for the confused, self-conscious looks I get from Power Wagon pilots when I look down at them and they see the Cummins badges on my truck....

Seriously, I'm hesitant to weigh in here as most seem to have their opinion locked and really critical of the AEV kit, without much more than reading the website...

My perspective FWIW; I've got 20k miles on the suspension, 10K towing our trailer. We just completed a 2mo / 6600mi tour of the Southwest, including trails in Death Valley NP, AZ, and NM. I put the 1st 3k on the stock truck / 245/17 tires and 300 miles w/the 37's/ Salta wheels prior to the lift.

I've been a Toyota guy since the '80s; still have two LC's and a 1st gen 4Runner for wheeling. Wife and I have been camping for the last 18yrs in a 60 Series V-8 powered LC w/ RTT, since before "overlanding" was a word. Two years ago, we decided to move up to an RV, ultimately picking an Aussie caravan (26 ft trailer, 8300 lb loaded, 10k GVW, 1140 lb tongue wt). Our 2017 Chev Colorado Z71 D'max while a great vehicle, just wasn't up to the task. A new truck was approved for purchase, specifically for towing this trailer.

I wanted a Power Wagon in the worst way, but quickly realized the limited payload and gas-only wouldn't fly for our needs. While nothing surpasses the response and growl of a gas V-8, the Cummins just made sense and is lot more "relaxed" when towing. A base 2020 Tradesman w/ Cummins and towing pkg was located and I convinced the Wife the stripped truck could be built more economically than paying extra for options we didn't need/want. I got the truck 6 months before getting the trailer, and needed it to be ready for towing.

View attachment 37434

One mod extremely important to me was increasing fuel capacity. 37" tires seemed appropriate for clearance w/o totally killing economy (they're the new 35's!), and a Titan spare aux tank (30gal) made sense to fill the spare tire void where a 37" wouldn't fit anyway. The tank enables 61 total gal on-board, but adds 250 lb to the rear axle, providing easy 500mi towing /1000mi truck range. Fill-up $$$ aside, the tank has been great. Adding recovery gear, toys like folding mtn bikes, inflatable kayaks, and golf clubs are all pushing payload to max for a 2500.

For suspension, I researched like everyone Carli, Thuren, ..., my issue being diesel w/ high static payload, and needing a balance between good stable on-road manners without losing too much off-road. I have no illusions of rock-crawling or chasing desert race trucks for hours, but want a rig that can tolerate FS roads, gravel, and 2-track where it can fit. Most seemed oriented toward unloaded high-speed travel, and only tolerant of occasional heavy loads. Overall:

Running 37s on the stock suspension: ride was marginal, they barely fit close in front, but would likely have caused damage if it fully stuffed; didn't want to cut/trim/pound in clearance on the brand new truck.

2"+ leveling w/stock rear: concerned rear droop w/ trailer would point the front way too high; also wanted some rear lift to accommodate tall tongue height of trailer; not sure what softer springs in front would do when fully loaded for stability.

Ultimately my decision came down to these:

• When I ala-carte'd @ Carli or Thuren the components included in the AEV kit (front radius arm drop, front track bar, rear track bar drop, sway bar drops, ProCal tuner, ...), the cost quickly matched or exceeded the AEV kit. I know this is a somewhat bogus comparison as there are quality differences, but I don't consider the AEV components substandard, and again I'm not desert racing or building a dedicated rock crawler. Springs and shocks are almost consumables and I figure my new OEM springs and the Bilsteins in the AEV kit are acceptable baseline parts to start with; springs are actually relatively inexpensive components. For the record, I added a Thuren torsion swaybar to the AEV kit, and it immediately made a noticeable positive change to the front; the Thuren team was extremely helpful to me fitting it up.
• With a new truck (<3k miles) under warranty I valued a lift which has some OEM connection (AEV Prospector) and some form of dealer network. This may be a pipe dream considering Ram dealer service, but I figure it provides some "legitimacy" if any issue comes up. This is the first time I didn't install a lift myself, but given I can't fit my truck in my garage and it was winter, I was further "enticed" to hire this out. I had the previous reamed steering link knuckle, which the installer noted looseness during the post-install re-torque check. They worked with AEV and ultimately replaced the knuckle per the latest kit version. I've been satisfied.
• A minor, simpler lift may have worked for me, but considering the available options to fit 37's on my truck with some rear lift, the 3" AEV seemed the most comprehensive for the price point. Carli undoubtedly offers more/better for 3"+ lift, but at a substantially higher premium I just couldn't justify.

View attachment 37440

So, I bought into the AEV Dualsport suspension; perhaps that makes me a poser / mall crawler. It is a "spacer" lift, but calling it that is like calling a Power Wagon a "big jeep". I'm able to tow w/o a weight distributing hitch or airbags and still have excellent stability in high winds and/or pavement speeds way faster than prudent. I have no illusions that I'm going to rockcrawl this rig on extreme trails, but I have clearance and articulation that allows me to take it into places most other comparable size trailers won't touch without damage or getting hung up. By no means is the AEV kit the "best" suspension, but I've been pleased with it's performance for my purposes. I've learned everything is a compromise, and ultimately these trucks are limited by their size. I believe my truck w/AEV suspension is "better" than stock, quantified by a good "OEM+" pavement ride, no compromise towing capability, better ground clearance, equal but more usable stock articulation, while enabling better than stock off-road capability, for a diesel truck. It's never going to be a Power Wagon, but a Power Wagon isn't going to ever be as happy or efficient with these loads in this application.

I agree with most everything Viking stated in his initial post, but believe there is a place for the AEV suspension.

You bought the right kit for what you’re doing. @ramblinChet did as well. Hand down, the better choice for max payload rigs used for camping/hauling/overland

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

For me, all of the popular kits leave something to be desired. None of them are best.

That’s why I only have a 1” spacer up front and FOX 2.0 IFP shocks as a place holder until I figure out what to do. I’m not saying this is best, it’s basically stock still.

Carli/ thuren have soft coils, lose payload (I’d squat towing) but I like their geometry better

AEV fixed the coil/ payload issue but I don’t like the bracketry / drops/ relocations

Ideally I want a 2.25/1.25 lift with factory spring rate (same payload) springs and a proper new / adjustable track bar front and rear. New radius arms for the front, if needed (may run out of caster adjustment and want the axle centered on wheel wel) Maybe leave my swaybar off maybe do the torsion one.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

I forgot about Filthy Motorsports.

Stumbled onto their youtube last night. here's one explaining shocks.

They also have some great info on Crawlpeida.com website along with a shock shoot out.

they also have some videos on suspension and coil springs as well as a good explanation on spacers vs coil spring lifts.

CJC offroad also has some videos on youtube as well.

 

[Darkone]

@Rockcrawlerdude have you thought about custom springs? Best of both worlds you could get the height you want and keep the payload too.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

@Rockcrawlerdude have you thought about custom springs? Best of both worlds you could get the height you want and keep the payload too.

But who makes custom coils?

I know there are several companies that can make custom leaf's, but not sure about the coils. I think Carli and Thuren are about the only ones who may have access to do that. But at what cost?

 

[Darkone]

I googled custom coil springs and a few companies came up. I’m not sure what cost would be but it may be the way to go if you want specifics out of your coils, that current manufacturers don’t offer. I read through a thread over on expedition portal that a guy with a 2nd gen had a custom set of coils made. could get the height springs you want with the height, load capacity and desired softness. Then pair that with a set of tunable shocks and there you go.
This might take more research than buying a pre made kit but might offer a better solution with probably close to the same cost. I’m sure it can be an option for those willing to do the work. You could also account for extra weight like Bumpers, winch etc.