2manyprojects
Active Member
UglyViking (can I call you Ugly???) No worries! I enjoy the discussion also and am constantly learning. I was cursed with a mechanical engineering degree early in life, and spent 35+ yrs doing R&D and product development in the automotive, aerospace, and consumer products world. I'm compelled to understand, and value other viewpoints. I will say only AEV can truly answer your questions as to what their kit does. While I lack the insight to debate all the incremental points of the kit, I do believe AEV has a unique relationship with Ram engineering and access to suspension design and testing details the others don't have.@2manyprojects Just a few observations from your post, but before I do I want to state something. I won't speak for everyone here but at least for myself the reason to have the discussion around the AEV suspension is to A) learn more for anyone willing to give detailed explanations of why AEV does what they do and B) to have a discussion around the kit so I can better guide others as they ask for feedback and advice. I like learning and understanding, even if it doesn't have a direct practical application to my current truck because who knows how it might in my future truck?
A couple of questions and clarifications:
Can you quantify "better performance"? Not sure what "increased ride" is, but am guessing we're entering that subjective "favorite color" zone. I considered the R2s but given my load needs and the fact that they are still "softer" than OEM I was concerned I'd still get too much sag and "pogo'ing" w/the trailer. All fasteners have been marked at install, and get checked/retorqued periodically.I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, hopefully others will have a discussion as well. I think you hit the nail on the head on the power wagon vs OEM+.
Now, on to a few observations.
#1 - Your needs make sense and I understood why you went AEV. I personally think I may have just stuck with a standard "leveling" kit, but I get the desire for ground clearance on these long wheelbase trucks (not something we actually discussed in the pros/cons so good callout!) and ability to match your trailers hitch point (which, holy cow how does any truck line up? So I think overall for your use case it seems like a great fit. Do I think you could have gotten better performance from another kit? Absolutely. I think the Carli R2 coils would do basically the same thing the AEV kit does but with a vastly increased ride. I do think you should make sure to paint pen all your bolts from the AEV suspension though. Just as a confirmation step.
Agreed on cutting; my poor wording meant to convey I wasn't crazy about visible sheetmetal amateur mods on the new truck. I considered doing the install myself (AEV's instructions are the best I've ever encountered aftermarket, rivaling the old Toyota factory manuals) and I researched the component cutting necessary for install. Again, considering potential warranty implications this leaned me toward having an AEV dealer do the install.#2 - No cutting on a new truck I get, but there was cutting, you just didn't see it or do it. The old AEV kit didn't come with a knuckle, and the price was cheaper and easier to argue for, but the issue was that for whatever reason drilling out the knuckle for the flip resulted in a lot of them becoming loose. I'm guessing improper installation but who knows. Anyway, sounds like that was taken care of for you and is a non, issue, which is awesome. That said, the current version does require you to cut the coil spring mount on the drivers side. Perhaps something you or others are more comfortable doing, but frankly I don't see an issue trimming a bit of the pinch weld to clear vs not. This is going to be highly dependent on wheel offset, true tire size, and lift height, but just calling out that there was serious trimming done.
Didn't mean to drag us into the weeds here with component prices. Sadly, when I purchased about a yr ago, the AEV was more like $2400, w/Procal. My point is if you consider the AEV kit in terms of the geometry bits included, the price/value compares more favorably with the Carli and Thuren offerings. Especially if you want to be in the 3" front lift / rear lift zone, where the radius arm drop and and steering/track bar mods are more desirable (Thuren doesn't offer). Again, the AEV is more than a "spacer" kit.#3 - Cost. I'll be honest here, everyone is in a different financial position and chooses to spend their money in different areas. That said, Considering the truck is a 55k+ truck, the trailer is a 65k+ trailer and you've got the same amount invested in wheels and tires no matter what brand lift you go with, I struggle to be all that concerned with the difference in price between the AEV and Thuren vs Carli. Just for the sake of example I put together some quick builds:
To be completely transparent, I think for the use case you stated Thuren is not the way you want to go, the springs are way too soft unless you are 100% planning on adding bags. I also didn't account for the procal on the Thuren/Carli builds, so for the sake of argument add another $170 to both.
- Thuren build - $2,770
- Fox 2.0 shocks, 2.75" front springs, +1" rear springs, rear trackbar, Fox 2.0 steering damper
- Carli build - $3,585
- 3.25" commuter system, radius arm drops, front 3.25" springs, rear ~2" springs, Fox 2.0 shocks, track bar, bump stop drops
- AEV build- $2,919
- Everyone should probably know what is in here since it's a 1 size kit so I won't list.
Even still, you're talking a difference of ~ $1,000 for the AEV vs Carli. As you've stated it's not worth it for you, but I think it's a vastly better system in basically every way, but perhaps overkill for what you're looking for.
As for the cost, we all have different views on what is "valuable". I struggled with spending for any kit that likely rode better unloaded, but would be potentially worse than stock for my towing needs. Even if cost wasn't a factor, I'm not convinced even the best Carli system would be appropriate, and at some point we have to be honest about how much more "performance" there is to be gained for $$$, and how much we realistically need. For me personally, it was about finding a good cost/value balance to start with, and balancing other truck mods (still want diff lockers...). Again, quantify "vastly better in basically every way"; my favorite color is the best....
Overall, I wish there was a way to try all the system's out there and assess them 1st hand (anybody w/ a Carli Dominator want to loan out so I can test???). Interestingly, with the AEV kit installed, I have all the geometry components for a 3" lift installed and believe I could change out springs and shocks in the future; I'll have to ponder that.Ok, now that I got that out of the way. I really want to know how the camper has treated you? I've seen those things online and they look really cool. Saw one down in south carolina this year and it looked slick at least from the road. Hows using it? And second, did you have the titan spare tire tank in this photo? I've been looking at one but it looks like it hangs way down from photos I've seen online. Any chance you have any other pics?
Many have snubbed the "bolt-on" nature of the AEV kit; I respect that view. I'm more the opposite, as I'm not an exceptional welder and would be real concerned with anyone welding on a new warranty truck, especially with all the thin modern steel alloys and heat treatments(and electronics) that are used to make lighter trucks these days. Reality is our trucks are bolted together. Agreed if anything isn't maintained, you should expect trouble, but I'm skeptical any mfr can put out something catastrophically flawed for very long. Trust, but verify....
As for our trailer, I don't want to de-rail your thread here, but while it's not perfect we're lovin' it. The ground clearance still exceeds the truck, and I'm almost embarrassed at how well we can camp completely off-grid. It's a compromise from conventional US trailers, but leans to durability and utility. It's still a 26' x 7.5' x 11' tall box, and won't fit a lot of places, but I'm confident it won't be falling apart after a couple seasons of dirt "corrugations" travel, like too many new US campers are prone to. PM me and I can answer in more detail.
I'll try to put together a separate thread on the Titan tank, as I found very little info on here. It is installed in my trailer pic, and can't be seen w/o crawling under the truck, unlike the extra capacity replacement main tanks out there.