2021 Stop Sale on certain diesels incoming (intake air heater relay). - Recall Y76 REFRESHED OCT 2021

[Worf_359]

Arc faults that don’t exceed the fuse or breaker limits start fires as reliably as a match and gasoline.

Good data if you're trying to spec out an aftermarket relay though.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Arc faults that don’t exceed the fuse or breaker limits start fires as reliably as a match and gasoline.

You mean like an Arc welder run by a battery? :=)

 

[rfullen280]

Gotta agree with Wolfpack on this one - the failure point is not the Grid Heater (Cummins has used that instead of glow plugs for years...years....). The failure point is the Solid State Relay itself. Previous to 2021, it appears that Ram used an electromechanical relay.... right Brutal_HO? The 2020 and earlier part is this - https://www.mymoparparts.com/oem-parts/mopar-relay-68393978ab

Completely different design to the 2021 and newer part. Makes you wonder why they changed? Maybe copper for the relay windings was more expensive than the silicon in the Solid State Relay. Maybe the SSR was touted to have a lower failure rate. Maybe it weighs less, and therefore, shipping 140,000 of the SSR's to Mexico costs less, and takes up less storage space. Maybe the new piece saves 15 seconds of installation on the assembly line, factored over 100,000 trucks... is a lot of time saved! (just think if they can install 4 per minute, instead of 2... The savings could be like 200 man hours. Holy cow) Who knows? (I bet someone at Stellantis/Ram/whoever does...)

When I worked on aircraft, going from old tech to new tech was only justified when the following rules were met: Performance and Reliability increased... Cost decreased... Space and Weight were saved. That's it. If performance went down, then back to the old method. If cost went up... stick to the tried and true.

SSRs are in use, all over the place, in every industry. So, why did Ram change from electro-mechanical to SSR? And... will it change back?

 

[rfullen280]

This article indicates 10 trucks actually caught fire. https://www.kbb.com/car-news/ram-asks-some-heavy-duty-diesel-truck-owners-to-park-outside/

 

[Brutal_HO]

Gotta agree with Wolfpack on this one - the failure point is not the Grid Heater (Cummins has used that instead of glow plugs for years...years....). The failure point is the Solid State Relay itself. Previous to 2021, it appears that Ram used an electromechanical relay.... right Brutal_HO? The 2020 and earlier part is this - https://www.mymoparparts.com/oem-parts/mopar-relay-68393978ab

Completely different design to the 2021 and newer part. Makes you wonder why they changed? Maybe copper for the relay windings was more expensive than the silicon in the Solid State Relay. Maybe the SSR was touted to have a lower failure rate. Maybe it weighs less, and therefore, shipping 140,000 of the SSR's to Mexico costs less, and takes up less storage space. Maybe the new piece saves 15 seconds of installation on the assembly line, factored over 100,000 trucks... is a lot of time saved! (just think if they can install 4 per minute, instead of 2... The savings could be like 200 man hours. Holy cow) Who knows? (I bet someone at Stellantis/Ram/whoever does...)

When I worked on aircraft, going from old tech to new tech was only justified when the following rules were met: Performance and Reliability increased... Cost decreased... Space and Weight were saved. That's it. If performance went down, then back to the old method. If cost went up... stick to the tried and true.

SSRs are in use, all over the place, in every industry. So, why did Ram change from electro-mechanical to SSR? And... will it change back?

We could talk about the dreaded grid heater bolt failure, but that's for another thread.

 

[rfullen280]

Here's the previous recall, for the non-taped-back-relays... https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RCLRPT-21V163-8370.PDF

So, I wonder if the first recall, they thought they had a shorting issue "external" to the relay, and were just as suprised as us that the issue was an internal failure of it.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Here's the previous recall, for the non-taped-back-relays... https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RCLRPT-21V163-8370.PDF

So, I wonder if the first recall, they thought they had a shorting issue "external" to the relay, and were just as suprised as us that the issue was an internal failure of it.

Also why those with a piece of Kapton tape on the back are still not in the clear.

 

[WisHawk]

That's interesting...my build date is also 6-3, but I have the AB relay.

Maybe different production lines? 2500 vs 3500? I find that interesting. Double checked mine and it is AA

 

[wolfpack]

Also why those with a piece of Kapton tape on the back are still not in the clear.

Because a thin strip of tape melts when the relay smokes.

Mine is disconnected. Truck can sit for the winter covered up with Stabil Diesel in the tank and a trickle charger on the batteries.

I‘ll be joining the class action lawsuit when it happens. New relay or monetary settlement for me. No band-aid BS.

 

[rfullen280]

Because a thin strip of tape melts when the relay smokes.

Mine is disconnected. Truck can sit for the winter covered up with Stabil Diesel in the tank and a trickle charger on the batteries.

I‘ll be joining the class action lawsuit when it happens. New relay or monetary settlement for me. No band-aid BS.

I'll take a new electromechanical relay. Like the old one please.

 

[Worf_359]

Worth noting, at least in my industry, SSR are selected when you need a long lifetime/high total number of mean switches between failures.

Someone at FCA never did a real risk analysis on this one. Fire, even if rare, isn't a valid choice over maybe having to replace a dead relay.

 

[RamCares]

Couldn't find this posted anywhere in this subform: anyone else receive a notice of Recall Y76 for their truck?

I received it today via email, so I called to make an appointment and have been told that February is the earliest they can have parts for the repair (despite the MOPAR site specifically saying that parts are available).

February. While the recall document says "vehicle may catch fire while the vehicle is on or off", and recommends not parking in a garage or next to other vehicles. I can't do that for 3 months.

Curious to know what others have heard or been told.

Hi Desertfox73,
Please feel free to contact us via private message if you need any assistance regarding your recall.

Rob
Ram Cares

 

[Combra6589]

Hi Desertfox73,
Please feel free to contact us via private message if you need any assistance regarding your recall.

Rob
Ram Cares

Don’t waste your time . Ramcare will not help you .

 

[rfullen280]

I’m enjoying going down the rabbit hole of SSR selection. It’s really not easy to find a 12VDC, 250Amp SSR. In fact, it appears to be a custom part for Ram…. And lots of companies suggest a heat sink. Weirdly enough…there’s not one

http://www.sensata.com/sites/default/files/a/solid%20state%20relay%20selection%20guide%202019.pdf

 

[Desertfox73]

Hi Desertfox73,
Please feel free to contact us via private message if you need any assistance regarding your recall.

Rob
Ram Cares

Thanks - since the timeline of my repair is based on part availability, my question would be: are parts available sooner than February 8 to have the work done?

 

[rfullen280]

I just thought of something very very important. And it proves that ram cares. If for some reason this winter you cannot afford your heating bill due to economic conditions… Your ram pick up will self sacrifice to keep you warm on a cold winter night. So if it chooses to do that send it to Valhalla with all of the honor it has earned!

 

[Worf_359]

Thanks - since the timeline of my repair is based on part availability, my question would be: are parts available sooner than February 8 to have the work done?

More to the point, if the "repair" FCA is providing is another SSR, is it really a repair?

 

[rfullen280]

More to the point, if the "repair" FCA is providing is another SSR, is it really a repair?

Makes you wonder if appropriate failure analysis testing was conducted prior to the switch from EM relay to solid state.

The world may never know. And Stella may never tell.

 

[Worf_359]

Makes you wonder if appropriate failure analysis testing was conducted prior to the switch from EM relay to solid state.

The world may never know. And Stella may never tell.

Considering the risk of ignition-off fires, clearly it wasn't.

Where I work folks would get fired over something like that. You mean you have a working part, where the biggest risk is a safe failure? And you're replacing it with a part that, however small the risk of failure, fails hot? I know I'd never sign of on accepting that risk, and I'm not that risk averse.

 

[Jimmy07]

More to the point, if the "repair" FCA is providing is another SSR, is it really a repair?

In the NHTSA reports, it does say that FCA and the manufacturer of the relay are not able to determine the root cause.