Frequent regens (~100 miles); no help from the dealer

[resoverlord]

Customer states The truck shows diesel regeneration process
started every 100 miles Need to start a star case on this truck
(Engine Mechanical Concern)
Cause: OPENED STAR CASE 03/23/22. star wanted a scan report, thena freeze frame report, then i had to do a drive log. thenthey wanted to verify no fuel leaks or induction leaks. hadto
pressure test the cac. then star DETERMINED THAT THEDELTA PRESSURESENSOR MIGHT BE FAULTY.
Correction: REMOVED AND REPLACED THE DELTA P SENSOR.

Gone about 30 miles so far and the gauge is already starting to come up. Suppose we will see.

 

[John Jensen]

I have an Alpha OBD unit and I have the option to force a regeneration. What temperature should I watch during the process (which gauge), and what should it raise to?

Thanks for your help.

Here is a good diagram of the system

 

[resoverlord]

They put a new "delta p sensor" in it. I had it back a day and it regen'd again after 50 miles, so they asked to have it back. Still there now.

 

[superjoe83]

I feel like either the egr is sticking open which would deprive the engine of oxygen which would cause excessive soot, but that usually sets a code, or you have an injector problem causing excessive sooting of the DPF. They need to drop the DPF and perform a "snap test" to see if there is excessive smoke coming from the engine and go from there.

 

[John Jensen]

I feel like either the egr is sticking open which would deprive the engine of oxygen which would cause excessive soot, but that usually sets a code, or you have an injector problem causing excessive sooting of the DPF. They need to drop the DPF and perform a "snap test" to see if there is excessive smoke coming from the engine and go from there.

I've been monitoring the EGR position out of curiosity. Thanks, you've given me a reason to monitor it

 

[Will_T]

I've been monitoring the EGR position out of curiosity. Thanks, you've given me a reason to monitor it

Other than temps, what else re the EGR are you monitoring?

 

[rsday75]

Still very interested in what you find from the dealer....
Mine is still doing a regen every 100 miles no matter how I drive....interstate cruising, stop & go....I might get 10-20 more miles on the interstate occasionally....
Another person on a Facebook group reported something similar, and his turbo was leaking oil into the intake....but my oil level isn't dropping, so that likely isn't my issue either.

Oh, and I tried another dealer in the area....they really pissed me off.
After I explained everything and made an appointment......took off work to get the truck there......they said Ram (Stellantis) would not pay them to look at it without a code and any diagnosis would be on my dime at $140.......I am still under the 3year/36,000 mind you.........One of the few times in my life I have told someone to F off right to their face.

 

[John Jensen]

Other than temps, what else re the EGR are you monitoring?

 

[Will_T]

@John Jensen Thanks! On a related note, did you see my last post over on this thread? https://hdrams.com/forum/index.php?threads/regen.9549/page-3#post-184285

Looks like whatever "Regen Trigger %" is monitoring, it is not what I, or you thought.

 

[John Jensen]

@John Jensen Thanks! On a related note, did you see my last post over on this thread? https://hdrams.com/forum/index.php?threads/regen.9549/page-3#post-184285

Looks like whatever "Regen Trigger %" is monitoring, it is not what I, or you thought.

Yes, I saw your posts. I cannot comment because you are using a different monitoring device than me, for which I know nothing about.

You may have misunderstood my posts/comments because I do know exactly what my Edge CTS3 is monitoring. The question is does the HO regening start on engine hours or DPF pressures? Any read will say regens are started when DPF pressures reach a certain level. And that pressure level is reported out as % soot. However, many owners, like you, say it's by hours.

Here's a quote from GDE a well known tuner discussing the issue a few years back. While the dicussion was about the Ecodiesel the concept is the same.

"The ECU runs two different strategies in parallel and takes the higher of the two outputs to determine the current soot loading:

Strategy 1 is a simulated value, and is calculated according to how complete the previous regeneration was, and how the engine/vehicle has been operating since then (engine speed, load, ambient conditions, exhaust temps, etc). Different OEMs design different variations of such a strategy, but for the most part the high level concepts are similar. The strategy employed by the Ram's stock tune is fairly rudimentary.

Strategy 2 is a physically measured value calculated off of measured pressure drop across the DPF, the DPF temperature, and the known flow rate of exhaust gasses.

The soot loading is used to trigger the regeneration when all the correct criteria are met."

 

[resoverlord]

Update:

The truck is still at the dealer, been there over a week without any progress. If you're counting, that means it's spent almost 4 weeks at the dealer in this latest go around, which follows 2 weeks the time before that and a week the time before that for 6 weeks total.

The head diesel tech at the dealership thinks it needs a new DPF. He says stelantis will only reimburse them for it if they follow the guidance given by the techs from the open star case, and those guys are dragging their feet. I'm at a loss here; I'm really not sure what to do next.

@RamCares I called my case manager last week to discuss and left a voicemail, but never heard back from them. Is this something you can help with?

And just to reiterate: I'm still under warranty! Whatever it ends up being, regardless of whether it's DPF, turbo, engine, whatever, they'd have to pay for it. It's almost like they are making this go a slowly as possible for some reason instead of trying to get my truck back on the road.

 

[resoverlord]

Heard back from them today. They are going to try to replace the hoses that go to and from the delta pressure sensor on the DPF. Their diesel tech had just attended a training where Ram was saying they were seeing more instances of frequent regens without a CEL and this was often the cause. We'll see how it goes.

 

[elephantrider]

the I'm under warranty comment... oh man.

 

[rsday75]

I hope they are nearing a fix.
Thanks for keeping us updated.
I will be scheduling to leave mine with them in May to see if they can figure out what is wrong with mine.

 

[jkempken]

I just had a similar issue and actually had a CEL for Frequent Regeneration. Dealer took it in changed the engine air filter that was getting clogged by some rodents. Seems like it is doing better now. If they haven't checked the air filter maybe that is another place to start.

On a side note my truck sits in a pole barn and is driven daily. Never had issues before down there but you can bet there are a bunch of traps, mothballs, ETC to keep them buggers away now.

 

[resoverlord]

I just had a similar issue and actually had a CEL for Frequent Regeneration. Dealer took it in changed the engine air filter that was getting clogged by some rodents. Seems like it is doing better now. If they haven't checked the air filter maybe that is another place to start.

On a side note my truck sits in a pole barn and is driven daily. Never had issues before down there but you can bet there are a bunch of traps, mothballs, ETC to keep them buggers away now.

I'll just put a new air filter in it, why not. I also thought about throwing a mass airflow sensor in it as well.

 

[fuchsroehre]

time for a delete

 

[Nowheretogojs]

I’m not a diesel mechanic, nor professional mechanic. But I have driven a box truck with a 6bt Cummings for the last ten years. (Big brown). This 100> regen is normal. I’ve seen what our mechanics go through for maintenance on the DPF system and from my observation, the filters are getting physically smaller as the regen process gets more efficient. Not to mention, if there is a lack of high engine speed high load driving there will not be enough EGT to do a full regen. The little knowledge I’ve gained, the regen process needs to be able to sustain a high enough egt2 temps without over temperature on egt1 to get a successful regen. If egt1 gets too high it will fault out and stop the regen. This could only give it a % complete. Now I could be completely wrong. But. I’m willing to bet if one of you that is having this issue can go out and work the engine. Do 1/4-1/2 a tank of fuel at close to 75% load capacity. You may see it regen completely and be fine for a while. Again. I’m not by any means a diesel mechanic.

 

[resoverlord]

I’m not a diesel mechanic, nor professional mechanic. But I have driven a box truck with a 6bt Cummings for the last ten years. (Big brown). This 100> regen is normal. I’ve seen what our mechanics go through for maintenance on the DPF system and from my observation, the filters are getting physically smaller as the regen process gets more efficient. Not to mention, if there is a lack of high engine speed high load driving there will not be enough EGT to do a full regen. The little knowledge I’ve gained, the regen process needs to be able to sustain a high enough egt2 temps without over temperature on egt1 to get a successful regen. If egt1 gets too high it will fault out and stop the regen. This could only give it a % complete. Now I could be completely wrong. But. I’m willing to bet if one of you that is having this issue can go out and work the engine. Do 1/4-1/2 a tank of fuel at close to 75% load capacity. You may see it regen completely and be fine for a while. Again. I’m not by any means a diesel mechanic.

For what it's worth, Ram already agreed it's a problem and has started their second attempted at repairing it.

Honestly, half of my frustration has been this exact kind of conversation with people at the dealership.

"Hey, I hear it regens a lot. You know that's normal if you're not putting a load on it, right"
me - "Yes. I put a load on it on the highway and watched the gauge still shoot up. Is that normal?"
"Oh. No."
me - "You realize most trucks go 1-2k miles without regens and their gauge never even comes up? Even if they idle a lot it only goes every 500 miles or so. Mine is every 50-100."
"Oh, wow, ok."

I certainly get that trucks used a certain way will regen a lot, but this truck is excessive under conditions in which it shouldn't regen much at all. The '19+ cummins run very clean (very little soot), so most people only regen every 24 hours (a forced setting in the computer). See the thread here for what is more normal:

Diesel Particulate Filter Gauge , Is It Working

The truck has about a 1,000 miles on it, I waited until it turned 500 miles before hooking a trailer to it. Yesterday I was going through the gauge options and noticed the "Diesel Particulate Filter" was reading 0. So I drove with the gauge on both empty and pulling a goose neck horse trailer...

hdrams.com

The gauge never moves for most folks. I'm driving this truck the same way I drove my 2019, and it's gauge never moved either.

 

[rsday75]

I agree, this isn't normal.....Regen every 100 miles cruising at 75 on the interstate? Watching the gauge % climb while pulling 14K pounds up a 7 mile long 7% grade with upper 80s for ambient temp? If that doesn't get the exhaust hot enough to burn clean, I don't know what will.
Also, the truck would go 2-3 tanks between regens when new depending on how it was driven.....now I am getting 3-4 regens per tank.
Sorry, but not normal.