DEEP IN THE HEART OF TEXAS: Meet The 2023 Ram 2500 Rebel Crew Cab 4×4:

[jsalbre]

I think I agree with lots of other folks here. The only feature that I truly wish I had was the new rear diff with the limited slip and selectable locker. I don't like digital dash boards, I prefer physical buttons to big screens, can install my own shocks and like the regular grill over the PW version.

I will say that I think the 6 speed is a plus over the 10-speed... my opinion... And, as a Toyota owner, I find it interesting to see comments that a 4 years is too long between updates. My Toyota mentality says "wait 10 years between major updates and make sure everything works before you release it". I

Man, if Toyota only waited 10 years between updates my wife would probably be driving a 4Runner or a Tacoma!

 

[Lumpskie]

Man, if Toyota only waited 10 years between updates my wife would probably be driving a 4Runner or a Tacoma!

She should probably buy a 2023 (still 5th gen) 4 Runner now then! Get one before Toyota screws it up to comply with new regulations. (I'm totally serious... my wife and I are thinking of one for her too)

 

[jsalbre]

She should probably buy a 2023 (still 5th gen) 4 Runner now then! Get one before Toyota screws it up to comply with new regulations. (I'm totally serious... my wife and I are thinking of one for her too)

She’s test driven them several times and walked away each time because of the lack of any “peppiness”, and the fact that it feels like sitting in a car from 2005. She commented that it handled worse than my Jeep (which I love, but will readily admit handles like a brick on slinkys). I can’t imagine what new regulations would screw it up.

 

[Lumpskie]

She’s test driven them several times and walked away each time because of the lack of any “peppiness”, and the fact that it feels like sitting in a car from 2005. She commented that it handled worse than my Jeep (which I love, but will readily admit handles like a brick on slinkys). I can’t imagine what new regulations would screw it up.

Well... you can't have massive reliability that comes with a platform that has been dialed in since 2010 and get the feel that it was designed in... more recently than 2010. I like JLs and JTs... don't get me wrong. But I'd take the 4.0 power train over the Jeep 3.6 pentastar any day. In fact I would take it over the new Toyota 3.5 V6 any day as well. On regulations, Toyota went to smaller displacement (loosing low end torque) to comply with fuel economy regulations on the new Tacoma. I expect the next generation 4 runner will loose the 4.0 in favor of the 3.5l engine as well. Maybe that's fine for someone who never leaves pavement. But, for anyone who actually tries to use their SUV off pavement the 3.5 is noticeably harder to control. Expect a continuation of this trend for the foreseeable future. (not to mention electric oil pumps that shut off at idle and other tech "features")

 

[jsalbre]

Well... you can't have massive reliability that comes with a platform that has been dialed in since 2010 and get the feel that it was designed in... more recently than 2010. I like JLs and JTs... don't get me wrong. But I'd take the 4.0 power train over the Jeep 3.6 pentastar any day. In fact I would take it over the new Toyota 3.5 V6 any day as well. On regulations, Toyota went to smaller displacement (loosing low end torque) to comply with fuel economy regulations on the new Tacoma. I expect the next generation 4 runner will loose the 4.0 in favor of the 3.5l engine as well. Maybe that's fine for someone who never leaves pavement. But, for anyone who actually tries to use their SUV off pavement the 3.5 is noticeably harder to control. Expect a continuation of this trend for the foreseeable future. (not to mention electric oil pumps that shut off at idle and other tech "features")

I’d expect that Toyota being Toyota the new 3.5 will prove to be a reliable engine, and any hard to control issues would be software related since it’s all drive by wire these days, so they should be able to correct that. The loss of some low end torque is unfortunate, but I don’t have enough experience with either engine to make any educated comments on the real world effect. They could have redesigned the bodies, interior, and electronics several times without messing with the powertrain. The fact is they got lazy because they were (and still are) raking in cash with 4Runners and see no reason to do anything to them.

 

[Lumpskie]

I’d expect that Toyota being Toyota the new 3.5 will prove to be a reliable engine, and any hard to control issues would be software related since it’s all drive by wire these days, so they should be able to correct that. The loss of some low end torque is unfortunate, but I don’t have enough experience with either engine to make any educated comments on the real world effect. They could have redesigned the bodies, interior, and electronics several times without messing with the powertrain. The fact is they got lazy because they were (and still are) raking in cash with 4Runners and see no reason to do anything to them.

Yeah. They have had oil pressure issues and other infant mortality related issues on the 3.5. It has already been improved and will be a reliable engine. High end horsepower will be great and it will cruise down the highway fine. But, it will always hate bigger tires and won't crawl like the old engine. Like you said, the 4Runner still sells and they won't change it until those sales really drop off. For me, this represents the opportunity to purchase a legit body on frame, solid rear axle SUV with an engine that represents the pinnacle of Toyota design. (for the U.S. market anyway) The 3.5 will be great but will never be the 4.0. (I sound like a Jeep guy now, right? Nothing will be like the 4.0!)

 

[jsalbre]

Yeah. They have had oil pressure issues and other infant mortality related issues on the 3.5. It has already been improved and will be a reliable engine. High end horsepower will be great and it will cruise down the highway fine. But, it will always hate bigger tires and won't crawl like the old engine. Like you said, the 4Runner still sells and they won't change it until those sales really drop off. For me, this represents the opportunity to purchase a legit body on frame, solid rear axle SUV with an engine that represents the pinnacle of Toyota design. (for the U.S. market anyway) The 3.5 will be great but will never be the 4.0. (I sound like a Jeep guy now, right? Nothing will be like the 4.0!)

Hah! The Toyota 4.0 is way better than the Jeep 4.0 ever was. The Jeep 4.0 was reliable, but aside from some (somewhat serious) issues with current 3.6 in JLs and JTs it’s been a reliable engine as well.

When the 3.6 came out the 4.0 loyalists ranted and raved about the low end torque of the 4.0, even though the 3.6 made significantly more at idle and pulled even further away all the way to redline.

 

[McHenry2500]

I expect the next generation 4 runner will loose the 4.0 in favor of the 3.5l engine as well.

I wasn't aware of this? I have a 2009 Toyota 4Runner and I love it. It's great on and off-road and actually pulls my small single axle trailer with SXS really well. I'd be worried a smaller displacement engine would struggle with a similar load going into mountains or hills.

Back to the subject, I really like the looks of the new Rebel 2500. My biggest gripe would be I doubt it'd be available in a long bed configuration. After 2+ years with an 8' bed, I can't go back to a short box.

 

[brewdad]

A retired Toyota engineer who has reserved a new generation 2024 4Runner & has a video about the new geneneration stated that will be no V6 engine offered, only a turbo 4 cyl.

 

[Lumpskie]

A retired Toyota engineer who has reserved a new generation 2024 4Runner & has a video about the new geneneration stated that will be no V6 engine offered, only a turbo 4 cyl.

that would be my fears confirmed

 

[Great White North Eh]

Hah! The Toyota 4.0 is way better than the Jeep 4.0 ever was. The Jeep 4.0 was reliable, but aside from some (somewhat serious) issues with current 3.6 in JLs and JTs it’s been a reliable engine as well.

When the 3.6 came out the 4.0 loyalists ranted and raved about the low end torque of the 4.0, even though the 3.6 made significantly more at idle and pulled even further away all the way to redline.

My JK $#it it’s head gasket at 20,000km. Boy was I glad it didn’t have one of those gutless 4.0 like my dad’s Cherokee that never quit!

 

[jetrinka]

Hah! The Toyota 4.0 is way better than the Jeep 4.0 ever was. The Jeep 4.0 was reliable, but aside from some (somewhat serious) issues with current 3.6 in JLs and JTs it’s been a reliable engine as well.

When the 3.6 came out the 4.0 loyalists ranted and raved about the low end torque of the 4.0, even though the 3.6 made significantly more at idle and pulled even further away all the way to redline.

I dunno. I'd rather have the Jeep 4.0 any day over those other two. The 3.6 has been very problematic in a few areas and while it makes more power is often prone to numerous problems. The Toyota V6 has been an overall good performer but is really prone to coolant leak problems (really any Toyota with the red/pink coolants) and is much harder to work on.

I'd venture to say you'll see the 4.0 still in healthy service for years to come - the 3.6 i seriously doubt. The Toyota V6 maybe but both it and the 3.6 are also way harder to work on and maintain when things go wrong.

If I had to pick out of those 3 I'd always pick the slow, tractor engine of the 4.0 I6.

 

[jsalbre]

My JK $#it it’s head gasket at 20,000km. Boy was I glad it didn’t have one of those gutless 4.0 like my dad’s Cherokee that never quit!

Man, I went through 3 JKs and never had an engine problem. My current JT's engine is doing fine as well, but there appears to be a run of them with some lifter issues that are causing them to eat cams. No one has quite been able to narrow down the cause yet.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Not related to the Rebel, but on the topic of updating buttons. Ram really needs to add physical buttons for seat heater/vents and steering wheel heater. I absolutely despise the fact that I've got to use the screen to turn the seat heaters on/off. Same goes for the steering wheel. Ford realized their mistake and at least brought a physical button for the heated steering wheel.

I don't understand how every truck manufacture can place huge screens in their trucks, and somehow still place physical buttons, and Ram can not. Slap the heated steering wheel button onto the steering wheel (where it arguably should have been to begin with), and give me 2 buttons on each side for heated/vented seats. There looks to be room at the top of the screen bezel, and if not extend the buttons a little further up on each side of the screen.

This, along with the buggy screen, are the two things that prevented me from buying the 12" screen. I was really surprised when the UC5 didn't address this.

My nephew's brand new D-max (he's going to hotshot) has separate buttons for not only seat heat/cool but the seat heaters can be selected for back or seat or both (not sure about the cooling). Brilliant. He's not a brand loyalist and prefers the look and interior of Ram for the most part, but the new Cheby is pretty nice in gizmo features. That said, his seat comfort sucks and unless they break in, might as well have been a big (heated/cooled) rock.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Do we need a Toyota forum?

Oh, wait, there's probably one somewhere already right?

 

[McHenry2500]

Do we need a Toyota forum?

Oh, wait, there's probably one somewhere already right?

For YEARS I've heard people saying "if Toyota made a 3/4 ton or 1 ton I'd be the first one to buy it!"

My nephew's brand new D-max (he's going to hotshot) has separate buttons for not only seat heat/cool but the seat heaters can be selected for back or seat or both (not sure about the cooling). Brilliant. He's not a brand loyalist and prefers the look and interior of Ram for the most part, but the new Cheby is pretty nice in gizmo features. That said, his seat comfort sucks and unless they break in, might as well have been a big (heated/cooled) rock.

Both of our ranch trucks are D-max 3500 duallies. Very nice, lots of neat features and gizmos but I think my Ram is more comfortable long distance. Hard to compare towing capacity from my 2500 SRW to a 3500DRW.

I guess I'm in the minority by saying I really like the new Rebel 2500. I don't necessarily need more stuff on my dash and steering wheel. I like the looks of it and I think it'll sell really well. It's a power wagon for folks who still need towing capacity. It's a slightly more off-road capable 2500 for folks who just need to get down a dirt road a few times a year.

 

[jenninr]

I guess I'm in the minority by saying I really like the new Rebel 2500. I don't necessarily need more stuff on my dash and steering wheel. I like the looks of it and I think it'll sell really well. It's a power wagon for folks who still need towing capacity. It's a slightly more off-road capable 2500 for folks who just need to get down a dirt road a few times a year.

I actually like the Rebel. The problem I have with it is how close the price is to the Power Wagon given what it loses vs the PW. If the winch is an additional cost option with the Hemi then the prices will likely be basically the same. If they are going to price them the same I would have preferred that they just offer a 10k GVWR package on the PW that ups the spring rate and leaves the rest alone. I also would have preferred the Rebel be an option package that is available on the rest of the models so you would have the option of getting those add ons on a much cheaper truck.

 

[Lumpskie]

My nephew's brand new D-max (he's going to hotshot) has separate buttons for not only seat heat/cool but the seat heaters can be selected for back or seat or both (not sure about the cooling). Brilliant. He's not a brand loyalist and prefers the look and interior of Ram for the most part, but the new Cheby is pretty nice in gizmo features. That said, his seat comfort sucks and unless they break in, might as well have been a big (heated/cooled) rock.

Good to learn about how other brands do it. One of the reasons I like my 8 inch display is to get individual seat heat and cool buttons like that. I don't really like touch screen and would take physical knobs and buttons over more screen space.

 

[McHenry2500]

I actually like the Rebel. The problem I have with it is how close the price is to the Power Wagon given what it loses vs the PW. If the winch is an additional cost option with the Hemi then the prices will likely be basically the same. If they are going to price them the same I would have preferred that they just offer a 10k GVWR package on the PW that ups the spring rate and leaves the rest alone. I also would have preferred the Rebel be an option package that is available on the rest of the models so you would have the option of getting those add ons on a much cheaper truck.

Have the actual tow ratings for the Rebel been released?

I don't see many folks dropping their PW's for a rebel, but I could imagine alot more folks opting for a Rebel than a standard trimmed 2500. As I stated before, I'd have loved a 2500 Rebel type model when I bought mine but I doubt it'll be offered in CCLB. I can easily add a winch mount to my cummins, it's the rest of the off-road parts and pieces that're more difficult.

 

[jsalbre]

Have the actual tow ratings for the Rebel been released?

I don't see many folks dropping their PW's for a rebel, but I could imagine alot more folks opting for a Rebel than a standard trimmed 2500. As I stated before, I'd have loved a 2500 Rebel type model when I bought mine but I doubt it'll be offered in CCLB. I can easily add a winch mount to my cummins, it's the rest of the off-road parts and pieces that're more difficult.

Yes, they’re posted on the Ram site. 16870 for the Hemi and 14,920 for the Cummins.

It’s CCSB only.