Dan's 2023 2500 Tradesman UNLimited

[44Dan44]

@44Dan44 I looked hard thinking there is no way this wasn't a kit, but I searched and could not find anything. Did you put this distribution box together?! Do you have a parts list?? Awesome work, your **** is insane and I love it!!

Thank you bud. Yep, I did the same searching and wasn't finding everything I wanted in an all-in-one solution that used good components so I decided to make one. A lot of research to make sure every piece was rated correctly for the amps, heat environment, and of course to take full advantage of the aux switches and available pass throughs and understand its capabilities. Mind numbing hours of reading factory wiring diagrams and researching wire strand counts and insulation types, sourcing the right Yakazi terminals and wire seals etc lol. Ram has a really superior system compared to my last experience with Ford HD, especially the use of pass throughs, I've used all 6 switches and all 8 ports and have ample access in-cab for battery power, ignition power and ground to tap into as needed in the future, same for at the rear of truck and really easy access to swap things around as needed in the distribution box and really dial in the correct fuse rating needed for each accessory I added, I really wasn't keen on having a $400 light bar (and the effort required to uninstall and replace it) on a fuse that was too big to protect it and sloppy in-line fuses weren't the direction I wanted to go.

I have a notion to sell a complete tip to tail, custom labeled kit on FB, maybe I should lol.

 

[oregonsteelhead]

Thank you bud. Yep, I did the same searching and wasn't finding everything I wanted in an all-in-one solution that used good components so I decided to make one. A lot of research to make sure every piece was rated correctly for the amps, heat environment, and of course to take full advantage of the aux switches and available pass throughs and understand its capabilities. Mind numbing hours of reading factory wiring diagrams and researching wire strand counts and insulation types, sourcing the right Yakazi terminals and wire seals etc lol. Ram has a really superior system compared to my last experience with Ford HD, especially the use of pass throughs, I've used all 6 switches and all 8 ports and have ample access in-cab for battery power, ignition power and ground to tap into as needed in the future, same for at the rear of truck and really easy access to swap things around as needed in the distribution box and really dial in the correct fuse rating needed for each accessory I added, I really wasn't keen on having a $400 light bar (and the effort required to uninstall and replace it) on a fuse that was too big to protect it and sloppy in-line fuses weren't the direction I wanted to go.

I have a notion to sell a complete tip to tail, custom labeled kit on FB, maybe I should lol.

Absolutely outstanding!

Was the main intent in this distribution box to have a clean way to run all of the grounds? The factory Aux PDC is fused individually for Aux switches 1-6, if you were worried about fuse ratings couldn't you have replaced the fuses in the AUX PDC with appropriately rated fuse for each accessory? With this set up, it looks like you are protected by 2 fuses. Just trying to wrap my head around this set-up...and justify doing it haha.

Thanks!

 

[44Dan44]

Absolutely outstanding!

Was the main intent in this distribution box to have a clean way to run all of the grounds? The factory Aux PDC is fused individually for Aux switches 1-6, if you were worried about fuse ratings couldn't you have replaced the fuses in the AUX PDC with appropriately rated fuse for each accessory? With this set up, it looks like you are protected by 2 fuses. Just trying to wrap my head around this set-up...and justify doing it haha.

Thanks!

The Aux PDC fuses are 20-40 Amps, and relay protected, user selectable per Aux switch but that's generally too much per accessory so usually people will take relays that come with their accessory and in line fuses that are sometimes included and it gets really messy and hard to find a fault if you have one. An example is if you had a light bar rated at 140 watts divided by 12 volts equals a 11.666 amp draw so at the minimum 20 amp fuse in the Aux PDC, its not going to blow first to protect the light bar (if its like my light bar at $400 and a fairly laborious install I really want to blow a fuse rather than replace the light bar even under warranty, just for the labor and time involved. I want to buy a fuse instead. So essentially yes, double fuse protected, the 20 in the PDC box is protecting my truck in a way and the 12 in my kit is protecting the light bar. Additional the wiring itself and relays and in-line fuses that typically come with accessories are not always the greatest so my wires go direct from the kit to the Aux PDC and direct to each accessory, minimizing that questionable china wiring, minimizing sloppiness, hard to access splices, etc. All my wiring is labeled and routed nicely and protected. Very happy with the effort.

Grounds yes, the majority of faults that occur are hard to find ground faults and sometimes you don't have a ground where you need one so you're running spaghetti everywhere to get what you need done, I built my kit to have the common ground busbar at an easy to access location and the wire I used is premium marine grade stuff so yes great grounding was an intended feature.

IIRC I think you were also posting on Floratorys thread about adding Aux switches, If I was going to that effort, I'd go the extra mile and just have your set up be premium and rock solid with a distribution box.

 

[oregonsteelhead]

The Aux PDC fuses are 20-40 Amps, and relay protected, user selectable per Aux switch but that's generally too much per accessory so usually people will take relays that come with their accessory and in line fuses that are sometimes included and it gets really messy and hard to find a fault if you have one. An example is if you had a light bar rated at 140 watts divided by 12 volts equals a 11.666 amp draw so at the minimum 20 amp fuse in the Aux PDC, its not going to blow first to protect the light bar (if its like my light bar at $400 and a fairly laborious install I really want to blow a fuse rather than replace the light bar even under warranty, just for the labor and time involved. I want to buy a fuse instead. So essentially yes, double fuse protected, the 20 in the PDC box is protecting my truck in a way and the 12 in my kit is protecting the light bar. Additional the wiring itself and relays and in-line fuses that typically come with accessories are not always the greatest so my wires go direct from the kit to the Aux PDC and direct to each accessory, minimizing that questionable china wiring, minimizing sloppiness, hard to access splices, etc. All my wiring is labeled and routed nicely and protected. Very happy with the effort.

Grounds yes, the majority of faults that occur are hard to find ground faults and sometimes you don't have a ground where you need one so you're running spaghetti everywhere to get what you need done, I built my kit to have the common ground bus-bar at an easy to access location and the wire I used is premium marine grade stuff so yes great grounding was an intended feature.

IIRC I think you were also posting on Floratorys thread about adding Aux switches, If I was going to that effort, I'd go the extra mile and just have your set up be premium and rock solid with a distribution box.

Makes perfect sense, thank you for the explanation. I have always struggled coming up with clean wiring solutions on my trucks, and this truck I'd like to do right. I liked the distribution box idea from the get go just for the cleanliness of wiring especially with regards to grounds, too many times have I had to trace back impossible to find ground faults or have not had the proper place to land a ground. Seeing that killer aluminum watertight box with busbars, LED fuse indicators, and now recognizing the need for a smaller fuse for most accessories, you've really put together something awesome there. PM inbound to see if I can be your first customer for a distribution box kit!

 

[ZFORCE]

Jumping back into the cab now. Time to clip the Orange/Pink that feeds the rear ignition power.
The now dead side of the clipped Orange/Pink gets connected to the Beige/Grey W550 (that was left unused before on connector D2621A) that we connected to port 1 on the light gray connector under hood. Now Aux switch 5 controls that ignition power source out back.
View attachment 57813

And just a reminder Aux switch 6 controlled Red/White to Yellow/Violet G425 to battery power source out back.
View attachment 57814

Which leaves me with
in-cab free to use battery power source
in-cab free to use ignition power source
in cab free to use common ground
View attachment 57815


Final look before it all gets tucked away.
View attachment 57816


And the reason for the tape on the small pink wire, Ignition-on lower volt power.
View attachment 57817

Where did you buy your voltage tester?

 

[44Dan44]

Where did you buy your voltage tester?

Amazon

 

[ZFORCE]

Thank you I saw a bunch on Amascum but I really liked yours. I have an old incandescent bulb tester, but it won’t distinguish between 12v and lower voltage readings, thanks again!

 

[44Dan44]

No problem, I would have given you a direct link instead of a photo. Working from phone today and (new one for me amascum, don’t hate it lol) makes it weird on the app.

I’ve been very pleased with the tester.

 

[44Dan44]

Some hopeful news, MandR said they'd look into adapting the TRX fogs to work with the HD's. This was my eventual plan to DIY that kit and bracketry to make it work, might get to press the easy button.
View attachment 59024
View attachment 59025

Coming soon! May be a just a few weeks out.

 

[44Dan44]

Coming soon! May be a just a few weeks out.

2019-ram-2500-3500-dual-function-fog-light-kit. He did it!

 

[jsalbre]

2019-ram-2500-3500-dual-function-fog-light-kit. He did it!
View attachment 68541
View attachment 68542

Those are neat, but I see a note that the light kit is for off road use only, which tells me that the light pods they’re using aren’t SAE fog light pattern and are probably just generic flood beams. That means we’ll have even more people driving around blinding oncoming traffic with lights that are inappropriate to use on the road, because you know that 98% of people that buy this are going to leave them on all the time because “everyone else has their fog lights on”

 

[44Dan44]

Those are neat, but I see a note that the light kit is for off road use only, which tells me that the light pods they’re using aren’t SAE fog light pattern and are probably just generic flood beams. That means we’ll have even more people driving around blinding oncoming traffic with lights that are inappropriate to use on the road, because you know that 98% of people that buy this are going to leave them on all the time because “everyone else has their fog lights on”

Just sayin, as compared to the much hyped baja designs, which doesn't disclose their beam angle and are probably just generic flood beams because all they are saying is that the lumen output is below the street legal threshold.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

Just sayin, as compared to the much hyped baja designs, which doesn't disclose their beam angle and are probably just generic flood beams because all they are saying is that the lumen output is below the street legal threshold.
View attachment 68607

The Baja designs sae lights have a sharp cutoff from a projector lens array and have a wide beam. I can’t tell you what the angle is.

The Off-road lights are brighter and have more flood but the SAE have a non blinding pattern and are bright for a fog light. I have both SAE and Sport (offroad) types of squadrons on my truck and had the Gen1 SAE previously.

Baja SAE fog cutoff shown here and the gen 1 SAE (left) next to the gen 2 SAE (right)

 

[jsalbre]

Just sayin, as compared to the much hyped baja designs, which doesn't disclose their beam angle and are probably just generic flood beams because all they are saying is that the lumen output is below the street legal threshold.
View attachment 68607

As @Rockcrawlindude said, it’s not just the brightness, it’s also (and mainly) the beam pattern.

To be clear, I’m absolutely not saying this product shouldn’t exist or that no one should buy it. I just wish they’d sell it with a proper fog pattern light as the default option to reduce the odds of it blinding other drivers.

 

[44Dan44]

As @Rockcrawlindude said, it’s not just the brightness, it’s also (and mainly) the beam pattern.

To be clear, I’m absolutely not saying this product shouldn’t exist or that no one should buy it. I just wish they’d sell it with a proper fog pattern light as the default option to reduce the odds of it blinding other drivers.

Understood, all I'm saying is how are you determining it's NOT a "proper fog light pattern" and what is a "proper fog light pattern"?

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

Understood, all I'm saying is how are you determining it's NOT a "proper fog light pattern" and what is a "proper fog light pattern"?

Not SAE approved or SAE approved.

 

[jsalbre]

Understood, all I'm saying is how are you determining it's NOT a "proper fog light pattern" and what is a "proper fog light pattern"?

If it were they’d list them as “SAE Foglight beam” and not say “off-road use only”.

The big difference between a “real” foglight and other beam patterns is that fog lights have very flat beams so they pretty much only light up the road and not the air.

 

[44Dan44]

So.... I like you guys a lot, let me put a bee in your bonnet for discussion sake. I encountered this when researching vehicle lifts, this certification, that certification, what's the best, what's it all mean? I'm just trying to buy a quality lift. What is a consumer to do?
A. Certifications are paid for.
B. When you dig a little deeper into the "certifications" they are meaningless (see Morimoto discussions) the paperwork doesn't add up.
C. SAE provides a front fog guideline last revised 2020, J583_202005, but don't bother trying to view those standards, you'll need to pay for the privilege.
D. Any manufacturer (including China) is free to stamp an SAE designation that looks legit on their parts there will be no consequences. ( See any recent Air Filter discussion)
E. Every manufacturer who CLAIMS SAE compliance fails to follow through and show those certifications, test results, etc. they just say it, you know...marketing.
F. Gosh, how many millions of lights must be in the SAE database of approved lights, can't seem to find the list.
G. I highly encourage you to read the legal disclaimer page of this highly respected international organization that everybody swears by legal-policies

​

 

[jsalbre]

You hit it on the head there. It's hard to know for certain without published data.

There isn't any outside certification. It's all self-certification that your lights meet SAE and DOT standards, and as such, there is no database. That said, if a company makes some lights that claim to meet certain standards, and they don't claim that on others, then you can be fairly certain that the lights they don't claim it on don't meet the standards, whether or not the ones they do claim it on do or not. Make sense?

To make it all a little more confusing, SAE created the standard, but doesn't require anyone to use it. 49 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) § 393.24 requires that fog lamps meet SAE Standard J583. Unfortunately as you mentioned, SAE charges you to view the standards, since they need to pay the people that come up with these standards.

Here's a good article about fog light beam patterns: https://www.offroadxtreme.com/tech/other-tech/why-sae-j583-matters-for-your-fog-lights/

And here's a great test someone on Tacoma Forums did a few years back on a ton of available lights that claim to meet the SAE standard: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-led-sae-j583-fog-pod-fog-light-review.554813/

 

[44Dan44]

You hit it on the head there. It's hard to know for certain without published data.

There isn't any outside certification. It's all self-certification that your lights meet SAE and DOT standards, and as such, there is no database. That said, if a company makes some lights that claim to meet certain standards, and they don't claim that on others, then you can be fairly certain that the lights they don't claim it on don't meet the standards, whether or not the ones they do claim it on do or not. Make sense?

To make it all a little more confusing, SAE created the standard, but doesn't require anyone to use it. 49 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) § 393.24 requires that fog lamps meet SAE Standard J583. Unfortunately as you mentioned, SAE charges you to view the standards, since they need to pay the people that come up with these standards.

Here's a good article about fog light beam patterns: https://www.offroadxtreme.com/tech/other-tech/why-sae-j583-matters-for-your-fog-lights/

And here's a great test someone on Tacoma Forums did a few years back on a ton of available lights that claim to meet the SAE standard: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-led-sae-j583-fog-pod-fog-light-review.554813/

"self certification". I am comfortable believing that; there are no consequences of falsifying a self certification, and/or certain companies are big enough not to care if caught, and that smaller companies would rather not risk it and therefore cover themselves by saying off road only.

The link to Tacoma Forum (in my opinion) is the kind of testing and results that someone making money from saying words (SAE) should be putting out on all lights that claim to meet their standard. Great read.

Another point I'll make, against SAE designation as the be all, end all answer. Considering that, the majority I'd guess, of people who spend xxx dollars on high end fog lights, on trucks, jeeps, etc also LIFT those vehicles, since it is unknowable without paying, I'm going to guess that, the standard is also based on fog lights being mounted xxx inches from the ground, so if then a vehicle is lifted, the SAE designation is invalidated? Seems logical.

For the record, Having had Lasik and then Cataract lens replacements, I'm blinded by factory LED low beams on sedans so I'm all for the proper light, just stirring conversation.