CP4 recall thread (merged threads) - Y78 Jan 2022 recall campaign - Parts Available May 10 for 2020 trucks only

[Sstiller]

The recall hasn't started yet so there's not going to be anyone that received any sort of reimbursement.

OK thanks I got the info from the ram app and I had never seen the reimbursement option before thought it was pretty nice option

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

My warranty is not worth the CP3 aftermarket solutions, If Ram hadn't of recalled the CP4.2, I would have converted day 1 without warranty. So hopefully it gets changed, without motor replacement with a certified rebuilt motor, as I only have 27K miles on the odometer.

You may as well call your engine a rebuild if they have to change the timing case they gotta dig pretty deep

 

[flan]

Some guy on FB 5th gen page tried submitting and got denied. He had screenshots from the Email exchanges to show he actually did try to submit and what the outcome was.

 

[RVTRKN]

I don't want my engine replaced, unless there is evidence of damage. I change my oil and filters every 5K, but the last oil change was 8K miles ago, due to time frame with my move to Kentucky from Las Vegas. If they replace it with a refurbished engine, then they should add warranty to the short block. It'll be nice when the actual procedure is announced.

 

[flan]

Engine damage, not likely in my opinion. Any particles small enough to make it through the micro-sized injector orifice wouldn’t do much of anything to the engine. If the tip broke off the injector that might leave a mark but your truck would have let you know long ago that happened. Usually when the CP4 fails things seem to plug up pretty quickly and the truck stalls. Injectors are part of the kit as some of the flakes do make it that far but probably not much further.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I don't want my engine replaced, unless there is evidence of damage. I change my oil and filters every 5K, but the last oil change was 8K miles ago, due to time frame with my move to Kentucky from Las Vegas. If they replace it with a refurbished engine, then they should add warranty to the short block. It'll be nice when the actual procedure is announced.

If they are droping in engines they wont be rebuilds

 

[RVTRKN]

One can hope.

 

[g00fy]

You may as well call your engine a rebuild if they have to change the timing case they gotta dig pretty deep

I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday about this cp4 debacle, and he's way more knowledgeable about engines than I am being he's an actual diesel mechanic on top of being an enthusiast with a few custom builds under his belt.

I told him about the recall and he said the same thing you've been saying, to change the timing case on the 6.7 you gotta dig really deep, and you'd be introducing a lot of human error (especially considering dealer tech skill/experience) into the equation of an otherwise solid motor. It made more sense to him to have dealers swap out complete motors than try and do engine teardowns in the engine bay.

Unless of course ram developes an easy to install adapter kit that doesn't require tearing down the motor. But who knows how long it would take for them to design, test, and eventually mass produce 220k of them.

Kinda seems like drop in crate motors is the safest, most efficient way to start fixing the problem right away, unless they're gonna make us wait for them to go through the process of designing a kit.

 

[Nick]

With the chip shortage I imagine it will be a long time coming.

 

[jeffn]

Kinda seems like drop in crate motors is the safest, most efficient way to start fixing the problem right away, unless they're gonna make us wait for them to go through the process of designing a kit.

Then they would have to produce an extra 220k engines… which would be a hell of a lot harder than 220k adapters, or a new fuel pump housing that retrofits to ‘19-20 trucks. The cost would be astronomical and that is assuming you would not spend a year or two producing those extra engines.

GM is replacing all of the batteries in 140k Bolt cars and they had to shut down production of new Bolt vehicles for going on 4 months now. Imagine being the executive in charge of recalls who goes to the CEO and says “hey yeah about that thing, we think replacing the engines is the easiest and most expensive solution here and, well this is the thing, we’re going to need all the engines for the next year to replace the ones in trucks we already sold so you need to shut down production of new trucks… and one other thing, we’re going to need to find a way to get rid of a quarter million used engines.” Yeah, be that guy on a declining slope career path.

It seems many truths here are self-evident:
1) Stellantis is going to fulfill the recall in whatever manner they decide and owners will have no say in the process or timing.
2) The timing is subject to a recall kit being made available in sufficient numbers to launch the logistics and training part of the process. Who knows but Stellantis if they even have a fix engineered at this point in time.
3) I’d bet that the only trucks that are getting the recall service initially are those that experience a failure. If you assume a 4% failure rate, on a rolling basis, about 10,000 trucks. I have no idea how many have already failed.
4) I’d bet dollars to donuts that no one who has paid for a CP3 conversion will ever see that money back. Stellantis is not going to pay for what they would call a modification, which would then require them to assume the liability for 3rd party provided fuel systems. Ain’t gonna happen.
5) The overwhelming majority of us will be driving the same CP4 trucks in 3, 4, 5, 6 months. Jeez, look at how long it is taking them to deliver parts for the trivial lug bolt recall.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Then they would have to produce an extra 220k engines… which would be a hell of a lot harder than 220k adapters, or a new fuel pump housing that retrofits to ‘19-20 trucks. The cost would be astronomical and that is assuming you would not spend a year or two producing those extra engines.

The engines are in production at a massive scale already for more than just the trucks it would take not that long to get them out to dealers if they go that way

 

[steve49]

RamCares came out with a response early in the year saying FCA was working on a fix and would have something by the end of the third quarter. Well, took a little longer but they have come out with a recall, so if they didn't have a tested fix which takes time, they wouldn't have announced a recall! So, at this time it's just a wait and see what's going to happen! Like I posted earlier, hopefully a TSB will show up on here with procedure and part numbers, then we'll know what to expect!

 

[UglyViking]

Some guy on FB 5th gen page tried submitting and got denied. He had screenshots from the Email exchanges to show he actually did try to submit and what the outcome was.

I saw that post but it didn't seem like it included the entire conversation. FCA responded with something about not paying for performance modifications, so I'm guessing the CP3 may have been stroked out or something. I don't know how FCA will pay for replacements already done by the owner if they won't cover 1 of the two brands on the market.

It could be nothing, but I believe there is more to the story than what is being presented.

 

[steve49]

I suppose anything could happen, but I don't see FCA reimbursing someone who purchased an aftermarket brand CP3 conversion kit, to avoid a maybe CP4 failure. If someone had a CP4 failure and their warranty claim was denied for whatever reason, and the dealer installed another CP4 at the owner's expense, then maybe FCA would reimburse the cost? ????

 

[jeffn]

The engines are in production at a massive scale already for more than just the trucks it would take not that long to get them out to dealers if they go that way

production capacity is sized for demand. If Cummins has an extra 220k units of capacity idle they are guilty of financial malpractice, which we know Cummins is not because by all analysis they are a disciplined company when to comes to capital ROI. They are producing about 100k engines annually for RAM and factory lines are not fungible, you can’t reconfigure one line to make a different engine. Do you really think they could triple production on the fly? What about all the tier 1 and 2 suppliers that would also need to deliver to meet that goal? No, they really cannot deliver a few hundred thousand engines to meet unplanned demand.

 

[jeffn]

RamCares came out with a response early in the year saying FCA was working on a fix and would have something by the end of the third quarter. Well, took a little longer but they have come out with a recall, so if they didn't have a tested fix which takes time, they wouldn't have announced a recall! So, at this time it's just a wait and see what's going to happen! Like I posted earlier, hopefully a TSB will show up on here with procedure and part numbers, then we'll know what to expect!

they could well have announced the recall to get ahead of the NHTSA investigation. A voluntary recall would have that effect and in the process give Stellantis some breathing room to come up with a fix in their own vs having a forced recall out in them where the fix is dictated to them. You do not have to have a fix fully developed in order to announce a voluntary recall. It’s voluntary and not subject to regulatory agency approval.

 

[RVTRKN]

I lost a 4.3 V6 MerCruiser Block with only 100 hours on it and was replaced under insurance with a certified rebuilt MerCruiser engine, it ran better than the original.

 

[Olypopper]

they could well have announced the recall to get ahead of the NHTSA investigation. A voluntary recall would have that effect and in the process give Stellantis some breathing room to come up with a fix in their own vs having a forced recall out in them where the fix is dictated to them. You do not have to have a fix fully developed in order to announce a voluntary recall. It’s voluntary and not subject to regulatory agency approval.

You can bet FCA didn't want to pick up the tab on this recall. With the NTHSA in play it will likely give FCA serious legal leverage against Bosch with regards to reimbursement.

 

[TonyT]

I've been checking frequently for the recall notice via email, mail, or the MOPAR Owner Site. Didn't get any kind of notification, but I logged in today and there it was - Dated 12 November. (Wasn't there 2 days ago.)

I wish I could just order up the CP3 swap and that FASS fuel filter and submit for reimbursement, but I know that's not how they do things. I'm gonna sit back and wait my turn.

 

[UglyViking]

I've been checking frequently for the recall notice via email, mail, or the MOPAR Owner Site. Didn't get any kind of notification, but I logged in today and there it was - Dated 12 November. (Wasn't there 2 days ago.)

I wish I could just order up the CP3 swap and that FASS fuel filter and submit for reimbursement, but I know that's not how they do things. I'm gonna sit back and wait my turn.

View attachment 26699

They have done that in the past, with the drag link recall, owners were able to submit a request for reimbursement on the synergy drag link. That said, there is a major difference between $350 and $3500.