UglyViking
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After many conversations in numerous other threads I figured this topic was worthy of it's own thread.
[ Request ] I know that topics of one persons favorite or most hated brand can often become heated, and furthermore people will believe that because Company A does X well they must also do Y well, or because Company B only does X they must do it better than Company A, so on. Note that everyone will have different needs, different views on what "best" is, different finances, etc. it will be impossible for any single company to do everything that fits your needs or wants. Don't get trapped in a defensive argument based off nothing more than personal preference. Finally, let's do our best to at least make an attempt to describe why something is better or worse than something else.
Initial comment
Ok, so to kick us off. I've had numerous discussions on the topic of AEVs suspension in this forum and others. To speak frankly, I think that the primary thing that AEV does well with their suspensions is to maintain factory geometry as much as possible. I also think they cut no corners in their attempt to create what they feel is the best suspension option for their defined use case. I also absolutely love their OEM+ look. Their stamped steel bumper, their snorkel, their flares, their wheels all absolute hits in my eyes.
The thing I find odd with how AEV designed their Ram HD suspension is by doing a spacer lift. If you look at AEVs history of suspension designs, it's all coils as part of their suspension replacements. They have softer and stiffer coils depending on the needs of the end user, but coils are included in every kit from the JK, JL and Gladiator kits. However, they have completely ignored coils with their Ram HD kit. It took me a long time to realize but it wasn't until I listened to this podcast that @ramblinChet shared, then went back and looked at their suspension kits that I realized why they went the route they did, and I now believe it was 100% an OEM and payload decision.
AEV works very closely with FCA and GM, which I think has a pretty big part to play in why they are utilizing the factory springs (purely for payload and legal reasons). Furthermore, if you compare the Jeep suspension systems you can see they skew towards users who want to overload their vehicles. I think that reason is the primary reason that AEV went the direction they did, and it boils to legal and OEM.
Now, compare AEVs setup with something like a Carli or Thuren suspension setup. Both companies make suspension systems primarily for users who's trucks are empty, and who want to bomb it down open stretches in the desert or rock crawl MOAB. I would find it surprising if anyone wants to argue that the AEV suspension setup is a "better" system for anyone but getting a few inches of lift while maintaining factory payload numbers. If you are looking for increased travel, or a softer ride then the AEV setup is not for you.
So, without making any comparisons between the AEV suspension setup and those from Carli or Thuren I'm going to instead ask why all the additional work involved with the AEV suspension? What makes their system better than a simple spacer lift? I get all the changes they make to get the factory geometry back into line, but is that even necessary for the amount of lift they are trying to achieve? Furthermore, why even lift for the prospector truck? If the goal is to simply clear 37s, you can do that with the correct offset wheel and some very minor trimming. I'd argue that the truck would perform better by simply switching wheels and tires rather than adding the AEV suspension if your plan is to keep 37s.
I at least understand the argument for the prospector XL, in order to clear fenders and all that they raise and move forward the axle. Ok, sure makes sense. Is it necessary? I mean they are the OEM+ brand, so "yes" is probably the answer, but I still don't understand why they wouldn't simply change out coils, certainly they would have been able to get ones rated for the max payload and gone from there? It would have been a far simpler system to install that's for sure. Perhaps they got too carried away with the "this is what the Icelanders do" and just copied the design without exploring alternative options?
In the end, having ridden in multiple AEV equipped rams, and in a few Thuren equipped Rams, and stock and spacer lift, I don't know that most people would notice a huge difference between the AEV suspension and a spacer lift. To be honest, I don't think most people are sensitive enough to notice most of the little details about how their truck rides, so there is that.
I'm curious what others think about the suspension design AEV choose for their HD platform. It seems to be, according to AEV, very misunderstood. To be honest, I think the majority of guys that have bought into the AEV suspension design aren't doing much beyond mall crawling and camp sites anyway, and I see very few guys using their trucks in any way that necessitates anything near 37-40" tires or a winch, but it's cool and if you've got the cash why not, who am I to judge how anyone spends their money. I'm sure that most Carli equipped trucks haven't ever seen anything but pavement also, so no brand is immune.
Anyway, what does everyone think? What am I missing? What made you choose your setup? When will someone release a power wagon winch conversion for the cummins trucks? These are the questions I've got (I'm not holding out for the last one until someone figures out a non mounted winch option that doesn't have me manually wrenching a hi-lift…)
[ Request ] I know that topics of one persons favorite or most hated brand can often become heated, and furthermore people will believe that because Company A does X well they must also do Y well, or because Company B only does X they must do it better than Company A, so on. Note that everyone will have different needs, different views on what "best" is, different finances, etc. it will be impossible for any single company to do everything that fits your needs or wants. Don't get trapped in a defensive argument based off nothing more than personal preference. Finally, let's do our best to at least make an attempt to describe why something is better or worse than something else.
Initial comment
Ok, so to kick us off. I've had numerous discussions on the topic of AEVs suspension in this forum and others. To speak frankly, I think that the primary thing that AEV does well with their suspensions is to maintain factory geometry as much as possible. I also think they cut no corners in their attempt to create what they feel is the best suspension option for their defined use case. I also absolutely love their OEM+ look. Their stamped steel bumper, their snorkel, their flares, their wheels all absolute hits in my eyes.
The thing I find odd with how AEV designed their Ram HD suspension is by doing a spacer lift. If you look at AEVs history of suspension designs, it's all coils as part of their suspension replacements. They have softer and stiffer coils depending on the needs of the end user, but coils are included in every kit from the JK, JL and Gladiator kits. However, they have completely ignored coils with their Ram HD kit. It took me a long time to realize but it wasn't until I listened to this podcast that @ramblinChet shared, then went back and looked at their suspension kits that I realized why they went the route they did, and I now believe it was 100% an OEM and payload decision.
AEV works very closely with FCA and GM, which I think has a pretty big part to play in why they are utilizing the factory springs (purely for payload and legal reasons). Furthermore, if you compare the Jeep suspension systems you can see they skew towards users who want to overload their vehicles. I think that reason is the primary reason that AEV went the direction they did, and it boils to legal and OEM.
Now, compare AEVs setup with something like a Carli or Thuren suspension setup. Both companies make suspension systems primarily for users who's trucks are empty, and who want to bomb it down open stretches in the desert or rock crawl MOAB. I would find it surprising if anyone wants to argue that the AEV suspension setup is a "better" system for anyone but getting a few inches of lift while maintaining factory payload numbers. If you are looking for increased travel, or a softer ride then the AEV setup is not for you.
So, without making any comparisons between the AEV suspension setup and those from Carli or Thuren I'm going to instead ask why all the additional work involved with the AEV suspension? What makes their system better than a simple spacer lift? I get all the changes they make to get the factory geometry back into line, but is that even necessary for the amount of lift they are trying to achieve? Furthermore, why even lift for the prospector truck? If the goal is to simply clear 37s, you can do that with the correct offset wheel and some very minor trimming. I'd argue that the truck would perform better by simply switching wheels and tires rather than adding the AEV suspension if your plan is to keep 37s.
I at least understand the argument for the prospector XL, in order to clear fenders and all that they raise and move forward the axle. Ok, sure makes sense. Is it necessary? I mean they are the OEM+ brand, so "yes" is probably the answer, but I still don't understand why they wouldn't simply change out coils, certainly they would have been able to get ones rated for the max payload and gone from there? It would have been a far simpler system to install that's for sure. Perhaps they got too carried away with the "this is what the Icelanders do" and just copied the design without exploring alternative options?
In the end, having ridden in multiple AEV equipped rams, and in a few Thuren equipped Rams, and stock and spacer lift, I don't know that most people would notice a huge difference between the AEV suspension and a spacer lift. To be honest, I don't think most people are sensitive enough to notice most of the little details about how their truck rides, so there is that.
I'm curious what others think about the suspension design AEV choose for their HD platform. It seems to be, according to AEV, very misunderstood. To be honest, I think the majority of guys that have bought into the AEV suspension design aren't doing much beyond mall crawling and camp sites anyway, and I see very few guys using their trucks in any way that necessitates anything near 37-40" tires or a winch, but it's cool and if you've got the cash why not, who am I to judge how anyone spends their money. I'm sure that most Carli equipped trucks haven't ever seen anything but pavement also, so no brand is immune.
Anyway, what does everyone think? What am I missing? What made you choose your setup? When will someone release a power wagon winch conversion for the cummins trucks? These are the questions I've got (I'm not holding out for the last one until someone figures out a non mounted winch option that doesn't have me manually wrenching a hi-lift…)