2023 RAM 2500 HD

[Brutal_HO]

So no big changes until 2025. Maybe we should be calling ours a 5th gen instead of a 4.5 gen

View attachment 21858

The new grille 2022's are 4.65 Gen

You heard it here first.

 

[Pronto]

Glad I didn't wait for the 5th gen. Doubly glad because I went by a dealer today and they didn't have a single HD Ram on the lot. The lot was almost empty, it looked like they were going out of business.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

The new grille 2022's are 4.65 Gen

You heard it here first.

Are you expecting further changes hence why not 4.75? And would 4.625 (5/8) not be better for the more OCD people of the group lol

 

[raven_dt]

The 10 speed twins have more issues than frequently mentioned. Its all about the powerbanz. The GM 10 speed is not an Allison built unit, Allison licensed the name or did some changes I cant remember which. I'm sure both GM & Ford are going to spend between 700 billion and a trillion 300 million billion between R&D and updates. I would prefer a 6 or 8 speed

Ford has already issued several customer service campaigns (recall) in the 10r140 in the diesels. First one is major, since those transmissions are sealed and not meant for service, not even a dipstick. And no the 10R140 and the GM 10L1000 are not the same transmission.

1.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10189752-0001.pdf

2. https://ford.oemdtc.com/6570/safety...transmission-replacement-2020-ford-super-duty

 

[Farmer 5500]

Fun watching the “big 3” duke it out for our dollars.
Proves once again, there’s nothing better than free market competition.
Only thing I’d change on my RAM is the mirrors AND, I really wish the automatic transmission stalk would go by the wayside on the cab & chassis trucks.
Would greatly prefer a push button allison-type selector on the dash to save room and separate these trucks from the old, outdated 1970’s column selector.

 

[UglyViking]

Fun watching the “big 3” duke it out for our dollars.
Proves once again, there’s nothing better than free market competition.
Only thing I’d change on my RAM is the mirrors AND, I really wish the automatic transmission stalk would go by the wayside on the cab & chassis trucks.
Would greatly prefer a push button allison-type selector on the dash to save room and separate these trucks from the old, outdated 1970’s column selector.

It's funny you mention that, I actually love the column selector. When I bought my previous truck (GMC 1500) I was looking at all the options and didn't even test drive a RAM due to the shift dial design. At the time I was eyeing a diesel but decided to hold off but I also didn't look at the RAM HD trucks because I thought they were dial too. When we bought my wifes jeep the sales guy tried to sell me one and when I told him I was only interested in the Cummins and not new because I hated the dial he informed me of the news. I kicked myself for having bought a truck 2 years earlier, had I test drove the RAM at that point I prob would have never bought the GMC.

Anyway, long story aside, my point is that I really prefer the column shifter, and I'm sad to see more and more trucks move to center console shifters and dials.

 

[Brewbud]

+1 for column shifter here. Unless I can get a console shifter

 

[MtnRider]

I'm afraid column shifters are going to be a thing of the past much like the manual transmission here real soon. It's all electronic shift so having an actual column shifter just takes up space for the sake of keeping what you are used to vs. a small dial on the dash.

I like the console shifters but need the jumpseat because of seating requirements so it's never an option for me.

.

 

[Brutal_HO]

If the ZF Powerline hits these trucks, the column shifter is gone. It has rolling R-D/D-R gear changes, all computer controlled.

 

[Farmer 5500]

Column shifters are such a waste of physical motion, throwing a lever that’s not even connected to a cable? Lol
Give me the heavy duty Ally console with mode selection or something similar.

I do NOT like those dials in the 1/2 tons

 

[Habu987]

I've driven vehicles with column shifters, console shifters, buttons, and now the dial in my DT. Frankly, I like the dial the most. Took me all of 2-3 days to get used to it coming from a console shift vehicle and now it's my preferred shifter.

 

[Brewbud]

Column and/or console shifter used to be more important when you could use it to shift gears. Off road I was always banging the gears. I still prefer console or column, but they have lost importance now that it is just P-N-R-D

 

[Brutal_HO]

Column and/or console shifter used to be more important when you could use it to shift gears. Off road I was always banging the gears. I still prefer console or column, but they have lost importance now that it is just P-N-R-D with a gear lockout or paddles shifters

FIFY

I do wish we had actual manual gear controls, sometimes I'd prefer to go up a gear and stay locked.

 

[snayte]

I've driven vehicles with column shifters, console shifters, buttons, and now the dial in my DT. Frankly, I like the dial the most. Took me all of 2-3 days to get used to it coming from a console shift vehicle and now it's my preferred shifter.

The only thing I do not like about the dial is that I always manage to go to park when I want to stop at reverse when shifting from drive. I wish you had to push in on it or something to get to park. More travel or more resistance when you get passed R would work too.

 

[Therapy]

I'm not "in the know" or anything but the next 2-3 years are gonna be a weird time to buy a new car/truck. Parts and supply chain issues are going to force a LOT of different hands when it comes to options (my 2021 doesn't have blind spot warnings, for example) and if I were Stellantis or Ford or GM, I'd be looking at what I could reasonably put on the lot and make decent margins on. If you're only getting 40% of the chips you normally would, for example, then you prioritize based on revenue/margins.

I also think this has shown a lot of manufacturers that people were willing to pay more for their cars/trucks all along. I have a friend that runs the service department at a BMW dealership and he was saying that they're basically removing incentives from their leases, selling at or above MSRP, and on 2022 models they're raising prices because people are willing to pay. I wouldn't expect those prices to come back down to earth anytime soon - at least 2-3 years.

My personal wish list for the 5th gen:
* Updated cab with more room in the rear (good now - could be better)
* Gas motor to fight the 7.3L Ford motor.
* Standardize the HO cummins for 2500/3500. Don't bother with the regular one anymore.
* Upgraded transmission - 68 is fine but from a marketing perspective "6 speed" sounds pretty far behind Ford/GM. May not have any real-world benefit but will help sales/marketing.
* Refresh the front end/rear end a bit to make it visually distinctive from 4.5gen/4th gen.
* Add a built-in bed-step like the AMP step or something.

 

[UglyViking]

I'm not "in the know" or anything but the next 2-3 years are gonna be a weird time to buy a new car/truck. Parts and supply chain issues are going to force a LOT of different hands when it comes to options (my 2021 doesn't have blind spot warnings, for example) and if I were Stellantis or Ford or GM, I'd be looking at what I could reasonably put on the lot and make decent margins on. If you're only getting 40% of the chips you normally would, for example, then you prioritize based on revenue/margins.

I also think this has shown a lot of manufacturers that people were willing to pay more for their cars/trucks all along. I have a friend that runs the service department at a BMW dealership and he was saying that they're basically removing incentives from their leases, selling at or above MSRP, and on 2022 models they're raising prices because people are willing to pay. I wouldn't expect those prices to come back down to earth anytime soon - at least 2-3 years.

My personal wish list for the 5th gen:
* Updated cab with more room in the rear (good now - could be better)
* Gas motor to fight the 7.3L Ford motor.
* Standardize the HO cummins for 2500/3500. Don't bother with the regular one anymore.
* Upgraded transmission - 68 is fine but from a marketing perspective "6 speed" sounds pretty far behind Ford/GM. May not have any real-world benefit but will help sales/marketing.
* Refresh the front end/rear end a bit to make it visually distinctive from 4.5gen/4th gen.
* Add a built-in bed-step like the AMP step or something.

I couldn't disagree more with that statement. If people were willing to pay more all along then prices never would have decreased they way they did and incentives wouldn't be needed like they are (or were pre-pandemic). Take the Wrangler for example, almost no discount on the thing, holds value like nothing else on the road, vs something like an average 1500 truck where you get easy 10k off with all the incentives. If dealers/manufactures could make more they sure as hell would. Think about the time every new sports car or special edition truck comes out, instant dealer markup but due to supply and demand. Enough guys wanna be first on the block with a new TRX or TRD Pro and manufactures know that so they don't apply incentives, dealers know what they got so they rise the price. Happens with every sports car release too.

The other thing to keep in mind is the fact that people who have the income for vehicles have found themselves with more cash in their pocket than before. This isn't the car/truck market alone, from Harleys to trailers to homes people have found themselves with extra cash because they had nothing else to spend it on. The whole world shut down for over a year, so vacations got canceled/postponed, eating out multiple times a week turned into 1x a month max, no clubs/bars to go out, no shopping malls open to toss cash at, etc.

I think in the near term you're for sure correct, people will pay because they think things are drying up, so that helps drive the frenzy. That said, after a few years I think the use market is gonna be ripe for picking. People that bought expensive trucks that no longer want the payment, ones that bought the brand new fancy 5er that realized they hate camping even with a trailer, guys that finally bought their harley and realizing it's not all sons of anarchy murder and chaos, guys that bought bass boats but realize they are not into fishing (can't wait for this).

Anyway, I guess my point is that to take anything more from this seems like a stretch, at least to me.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I'm not "in the know" or anything but the next 2-3 years are gonna be a weird time to buy a new car/truck. Parts and supply chain issues are going to force a LOT of different hands when it comes to options (my 2021 doesn't have blind spot warnings, for example) and if I were Stellantis or Ford or GM, I'd be looking at what I could reasonably put on the lot and make decent margins on. If you're only getting 40% of the chips you normally would, for example, then you prioritize based on revenue/margins.

I also think this has shown a lot of manufacturers that people were willing to pay more for their cars/trucks all along. I have a friend that runs the service department at a BMW dealership and he was saying that they're basically removing incentives from their leases, selling at or above MSRP, and on 2022 models they're raising prices because people are willing to pay. I wouldn't expect those prices to come back down to earth anytime soon - at least 2-3 years.

My personal wish list for the 5th gen:
* Updated cab with more room in the rear (good now - could be better)
* Gas motor to fight the 7.3L Ford motor.
* Standardize the HO cummins for 2500/3500. Don't bother with the regular one anymore.
* Upgraded transmission - 68 is fine but from a marketing perspective "6 speed" sounds pretty far behind Ford/GM. May not have any real-world benefit but will help sales/marketing.
* Refresh the front end/rear end a bit to make it visually distinctive from 4.5gen/4th gen.
* Add a built-in bed-step like the AMP step or something.

They have a fold down step with the bed group pkg, mine is great

 

[Therapy]

The other thing to keep in mind is the fact that people who have the income for vehicles have found themselves with more cash in their pocket than before. This isn't the car/truck market alone, from Harleys to trailers to homes people have found themselves with extra cash because they had nothing else to spend it on. The whole world shut down for over a year, so vacations got canceled/postponed, eating out multiple times a week turned into 1x a month max, no clubs/bars to go out, no shopping malls open to toss cash at, etc.

This is a really good point. People can't spend their money on vacations, on going to fancy dinners or away for the weekend, etc, so they spend on their homes and their cars.

I think in the near term you're for sure correct, people will pay because they think things are drying up, so that helps drive the frenzy. That said, after a few years I think the use market is gonna be ripe for picking. People that bought expensive trucks that no longer want the payment, ones that bought the brand new fancy 5er that realized they hate camping even with a trailer, guys that finally bought their harley and realizing it's not all sons of anarchy murder and chaos, guys that bought bass boats but realize they are not into fishing (can't wait for this).

Anyway, I guess my point is that to take anything more from this seems like a stretch, at least to me.

I think you're 100% right. I don't want to say it's a "bubble" but it does look like one. I also agree that getting a good deal on a used RV/Boat in the next couple years will be amazing, but buying one right now is brutal.

I also think, though, that car manufacturers are going to milk this as long as they can. Even when supply catches up on their side, I wouldn't be surprised to see some artificial scarcity where they make it seem like certain models are harder to find/build. That being said, if Ford or Ram does this then GM can swoop in with extra supply. "Can't buy an F250? Come get a 2500, we've got plenty." and then it'll be back to the way it was before. So outside of collusion with the other manufacturers (they get together and decide to keep prices high by artificially restricting inventory - which is illegal and would likely be found out eventually) I think the prices *will* come down again, but I wouldn't expect that until 2023-24 at the earliest.

Personally I would love to get rid of the old dealership model a bit. I've never ordered a new car before, it's always been better from a price perspective to just make a deal for what was on the lot. They're always willing to make deals on that. But I do have the dream that one day I'll be able to go order exactly the spec I want and have it delivered directly to my house. I'm just not willing to pay an extra $10k for that.

 

[Brutal_HO]

They have a fold down step with the bed group pkg, mine is great

I have a feeling he's talking about a side bed step, not the bumper step.

 

[Therapy]

I have a feeling he's talking about a side bed step, bit the bumper step.

Honestly I'm 5'11" but I have the short legs of a guy who's 5'5" so any way to get my fat ass into the bed without looking like a sea lion beaching itself is welcome haha