Trail_Wagon: The story of "Hope". A 2022 power wagon build

[Rockcrawlindude]

I've decided to start a build thread for my 2022 power wagon. At the time is this post, I'm still waiting for the truck to show up. I ordered the truck Dec 3rd 2021.

The trucks name is going to be "Hope". So over the last few years, my wife and I have had one bad hotel experience after another. Dirty rooms, hidden fees, rude service, bed bugs, foul smells, lost reservations etc. It doesn't seem to matter how nice the hotel is, the bull **** is real. My wife also suffers from a lot of allergies, particularly to smell. So this truck (and the scout kenai camper we ordered the same day, which we named bubble) are our last hope to travel the country in comfort.
We are tired of filthy conditions, poor service, and others people's **** (literally).

So Here is the build sheet...

View attachment 31807

Level 3 interior. This is going to be one sweet ride.
So I'm starting my build thread with this...

View attachment 31808

Nitto trail (ridge) grapplers. 37x12.50r17. Shortly after I put 37s on the Rubicon my wife fell in love with the way it rides and demanded that the PW get 37's too. Yes dear.

Also ordered are some AEV Katla wheels in onyx.

Look forward to watching this thread.

Im allergic to bull**** as well, so I feel your pain.

 

[Trail_Wagon]

Thanks for the experience! I'll probably go this route and free up that space in my bed.

View attachment 32013

When Hope shows up in a few weeks, I want to go wheeling with ya. Once I have a baseline from my truck I want to check out your Pintop shocks.

 

[Trail_Wagon]

This is the camper we ordered. Scout Kenai. Light weight, minimalist, modular.

 

[AnthonyD1978]

When Hope shows up in a few weeks, I want to go wheeling with ya. Once I have a baseline from my truck I want to check out your Pintop shocks.

Let's do it! Just let me know.

 

[Hibiki54]

That's going to be a tall rig with the camper. Make sure to get bigger springs to take on all that weight. Check out Brad's rig at TrailRecon.

 

[Trail_Wagon]

That's going to be a tall rig with the camper. Make sure to get bigger springs to take on all that weight. Check out Brad's rig at TrailRecon.

I didn't do it on purpose, but Hope is going to be a near clone of brads jeep.

Fun fact, I met Brad a few years ago at Safeway in Sedona

 

[Etoimos]

This is going to be a nice build, thanks for sharing it with us.

 

[AnthonyD1978]

That's going to be a tall rig with the camper. Make sure to get bigger springs to take on all that weight. Check out Brad's rig at TrailRecon.

If I remember right he ended up with air bags. The springs weren’t enough alone.

I run the same spring he does with my setup.

 

[UglyViking]

I don't see how he could get away with a camper without bags on a 2500. I'm running Thuren +1", and while the Thurens are softer than the Carli (and also linear) I don't know by how much. My Thuren springs sagged notably with only an RSI cap on, so that's something.

 

[Trail_Wagon]

Airbags and a hellwig sway bar in the rear on Brads power wagon.

 

[Trail_Wagon]

I'm going to use this space to help sort out my thoughts on shocks. This is going to be a true dual purpose rig...

Normally the truck is going to be light, nothing in the bed. And its daily use is going to be mostly onroad with occasional light/med off road. I'm looking at mostly semi maintained forest service style roads to get out to remove places for rock hounding, hiking and exploring. I have a TJ and JL to handle to more severe rock crawling. But I chose the power wagon, because I want it to be capable and not have to turn around when things to get a little rough. The flex and lockers will dramatically open up possibilities even though these things are huge.

On the other side of the coin the Scout Kenai will be in the bed. Its light for what it is, but still going to be around 1500-2000k pounds. Thats going to bring this big girl up to 9k #. I wont likely do rock crawling with the camper in the back, but still expect to go off road to get to remote camping spots. I still expect to be able to drive down unimproved roads at a reasonable speed without the truck constantly hitting the bump stops. One bonus... when loaded, the truck will have nearly 50/50 weight distribution. That's actually badass.

So, heres some thoughts..

The truck will be getting airbags in the rear to assist with the weight of the camper. I'm planning on a 1.5-2" lift in the front to level things out.

Fox 2.0 IFP:
Pros- Affordable, fantastic ride when empty, seriously upgraded performance over factory.
Cons- I don't think they will do well when loaded, Even adding a winch to the front of my Fox 2.0 equipped JLUR has found me hitting the bump stops more than I like.

Carlie/Thuren 2.5 Pintop
Pros- Seemingly fantastic high speed performance for these trucks. CJC off road has made a very convincing set of youtube videos.
Cons- $, and I'm seeing a lot of talk that their small bump compliance is very harsh. This is a deal killer. I don't want to feel every pebble. Why no flutter valve? Bleed shim? High end custom tuned shocks shouldn't ride harsh. For the cost, these should really have DSC or something similar to allow for changing payload. These shocks might be too stiff when empty and too soft when loaded. Not a fan of the one size fits all approach

Carlie Dominator
Pros- 3.0 shocks. Its my understanding that when your vehicle gets up over 6-7k pounds to really need the larger shocks to control them. Reportedly smooth ride on and off. I've seen videos of trucks with campers jumping in the dunes... Not that I would, but I could.
Cons- $$$. Still no DSC for changing payloads.

Carlie E- Venture
Pros- seems like the best of everything. 2.5 shocks, that self adjust on the fly 250 times per second. Built in bump zones. Fantastic performance on the street, on the rocks, service roads,... everywhere. Can automatically adjust to compensate for the camper weight. Reduced body roll, more control etc.
Cons- $$. doesn't exist yet and a call to SDI yesterday said "we have no idea when that will be finished". That's not encouraging.

SDI universal E click
Not much info on these yet, but the same phone call yesterday they said "development is near complete and they expect a release date... soon"
Basically anything with a reservoir can be converted to active suspension. This means retrofitting older pintop or dominator setups. Also opens the doors for companies like accutune to custom valve fox/king 2.5 / 3.0 shocks, bypasses, whatever.
I'm capable of fabricating shocks mounts, so I can adapt anything.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Experienc?

 

[UglyViking]

I'm running the Thuren 3.0 front, 2.5" rear King resi shocks. I find they are much improved over the stock setup. Now, that could be primarily due to the springs and/or larger tire (running 37s) as when I was waiting on the Kings to be built I had Thuren's overland shocks. I personally like them, but I have been a bit surprised by their seeming lack of small bump compliance. That said, I have been impressed overall with them, both towing and non, on and off road. I think if I personally were to start all over, I'd likely keep the factory rear springs to maintain the payload but that's a different story.

I'm interested in seeing if the Carli E-Venture shocks hold up to their promise, but end of the day I'm unsure how much they will change. I'd be willing to buy and give them a shot though.

If you're even toying with the E-Venture I'd just wait it out. Your factory suspension is more than capable for the moment and while an upgrade is always available you want to prevent yourself from buying too many times (ask me how I know).

 

[Hibiki54]

Airbags and a hellwig sway bar in the rear on Brads power wagon.

You're right. He did point that out in an Power Wagon update video. So the person putting the camper on the PW should check weight because the 4wheel camper is heavy.

 

[Trail_Wagon]

I'm running the Thuren 3.0 front, 2.5" rear King resi shocks. I find they are much improved over the stock setup. Now, that could be primarily due to the springs and/or larger tire (running 37s) as when I was waiting on the Kings to be built I had Thuren's overland shocks. I personally like them, but I have been a bit surprised by their seeming lack of small bump compliance. That said, I have been impressed overall with them, both towing and non, on and off road. I think if I personally were to start all over, I'd likely keep the factory rear springs to maintain the payload but that's a different story.

I'm interested in seeing if the Carli E-Venture shocks hold up to their promise, but end of the day I'm unsure how much they will change. I'd be willing to buy and give them a shot though.

If you're even toying with the E-Venture I'd just wait it out. Your factory suspension is more than capable for the moment and while an upgrade is always available you want to prevent yourself from buying too many times (ask me how I know).

What level are your Thuren Kings tuned to?

I'm curious to see about the E venture stuff too. I've considered buying some for my JLUR. I recently watched a video of the SDI jeep keeping up with raptors high speed off road.

 

[UglyViking]

What level are your Thuren Kings tuned to?

I'm curious to see about the E venture stuff too. I've considered buying some for my JLUR. I recently watched a video of the SDI jeep keeping up with raptors high speed off road.

I had them tuned to 3 (For those wondering it's their standard valving, link). I did have them take a little bit of the nitro out to help give it some compliance, so it's probably around a "2.5" or "2.75" stage.

It def works vastly better at speed for sure, I just don't get much opportunity on the roads in the north east to do much speed off road. Most of our trails are more tight and technical. I probably should have gone with a full stage 2 build, but hey, live and learn.

I think once they need to be rebuilt I'll likely have them re-valved for a stage 2, depending on the weight the trucks got on it (adding aftermarket bumper, winch, and some recovery gear and such in the bed will add enough weight that I may want to keep the stage 3 valving, who knows.

 

[TireNerd]

Airbags and a hellwig sway bar in the rear on Brads power wagon.

Great thread, following along here as I have some experience and looking to upgrade my suspension one last time. Interesting that Brad did the Hellwig THEN the Bags. I have been wondering if the Hellwig is actually needed, as the bags provide quite a bit of outboard stability and solve the infamous sway / wobble for most.

 

[TireNerd]

I'm going to use this space to help sort out my thoughts on shocks. This is going to be a true dual purpose rig...



Thoughts? Suggestions? Experienc?

One of the main issues with these trucks is the instability of the inward mounted rear coil springs. Air bags are pretty much a must.

A pro of the $$Carli Dominator system is the rear shocks are relocated outside the frame rails instead of the factory location through the rails.

A con of a complete Carli kit is the rear track bar using a frame drop mount compared to a Thuren using a raised axle side mount. Anything you can do to add stability via roll center is in your favor if you are planning on a camper.

 

[Trail_Wagon]

A pro of the $$Carli Dominator system is the rear shocks are relocated outside the frame rails instead of the factory location through the rails.

I had not thought of this. . I "outboarded" the rear shocks on my TJ for this exact reason. Significantly improved stability.

Even looking at what jeep engineers did with the JK vs JL, one of the biggest upgrades was they put the rear shocks on the outside of the frame. If you have never driven a JK and a JL, the JL is so much more stable, and comfortable.

Thanks for this bread crumb

 

[TireNerd]

I'm going to use this space to help sort out my thoughts on shocks. This is going to be a true dual purpose rig...

Normally the truck is going to be light, nothing in the bed. And its daily use is going to be mostly onroad with occasional light/med off road. I'm looking at mostly semi maintained forest service style roads to get out to remove places for rock hounding, hiking and exploring. I have a TJ and JL to handle to more severe rock crawling. But I chose the power wagon, because I want it to be capable and not have to turn around when things to get a little rough. The flex and lockers will dramatically open up possibilities even though these things are huge.

On the other side of the coin the Scout Kenai will be in the bed. Its light for what it is, but still going to be around 1500-2000k pounds. Thats going to bring this big girl up to 9k #. I wont likely do rock crawling with the camper in the back, but still expect to go off road to get to remote camping spots. I still expect to be able to drive down unimproved roads at a reasonable speed without the truck constantly hitting the bump stops. One bonus... when loaded, the truck will have nearly 50/50 weight distribution. That's actually badass.

So, heres some thoughts..

The truck will be getting airbags in the rear to assist with the weight of the camper. I'm planning on a 1.5-2" lift in the front to level things out.

Fox 2.0 IFP:
Pros- Affordable, fantastic ride when empty, seriously upgraded performance over factory.
Cons- I don't think they will do well when loaded, Even adding a winch to the front of my Fox 2.0 equipped JLUR has found me hitting the bump stops more than I like.

Carlie/Thuren 2.5 Pintop
Pros- Seemingly fantastic high speed performance for these trucks. CJC off road has made a very convincing set of youtube videos.
Cons- $, and I'm seeing a lot of talk that their small bump compliance is very harsh. This is a deal killer. I don't want to feel every pebble. Why no flutter valve? Bleed shim? High end custom tuned shocks shouldn't ride harsh. For the cost, these should really have DSC or something similar to allow for changing payload. These shocks might be too stiff when empty and too soft when loaded. Not a fan of the one size fits all approach

Carlie Dominator
Pros- 3.0 shocks. Its my understanding that when your vehicle gets up over 6-7k pounds to really need the larger shocks to control them. Reportedly smooth ride on and off. I've seen videos of trucks with campers jumping in the dunes... Not that I would, but I could.
Cons- $$$. Still no DSC for changing payloads.

Carlie E- Venture
Pros- seems like the best of everything. 2.5 shocks, that self adjust on the fly 250 times per second. Built in bump zones. Fantastic performance on the street, on the rocks, service roads,... everywhere. Can automatically adjust to compensate for the camper weight. Reduced body roll, more control etc.
Cons- $$. doesn't exist yet and a call to SDI yesterday said "we have no idea when that will be finished". That's not encouraging.

SDI universal E click
Not much info on these yet, but the same phone call yesterday they said "development is near complete and they expect a release date... soon"
Basically anything with a reservoir can be converted to active suspension. This means retrofitting older pintop or dominator setups. Also opens the doors for companies like accutune to custom valve fox/king 2.5 / 3.0 shocks, bypasses, whatever.
I'm capable of fabricating shocks mounts, so I can adapt anything.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Experienc?

One other shock package to consider that doesn't exist yet is Thuren's Fox 2.5 DSC. I've been holding out for this in order to have the adjustability ...

https://www.facebook.com/232671426774560/posts/4176648359043494

 

[TireNerd]

I had not thought of this. . I "outboarded" the rear shocks on my TJ for this exact reason. Significantly improved stability.

Even looking at what jeep engineers did with the JK vs JL, one of the biggest upgrades was they put the rear shocks on the outside of the frame. If you have never driven a JK and a JL, the JL is so much more stable, and comfortable.

Thanks for this bread crumb

Spot on. I have spent countless hours in a JL Rubicon doing tire development, they are extremely stable on the highway and serious off camber off-road... The issue with the inboard shocks is you need so much valving to control the payload (wobble / sway) that you lose the small bump sensitivity. It's a trade-off on the 2500, not so much on the JL ...