Towing help needed for my 3500

[Brutal_HO]

Anxiously awaiting your scale/TW numbers.

Any way you can get it to a scale for accurate weights on all axles. Then drop the boat and reweigh for your true truck axle weights and TW?

 

[Brutal_HO]

My 3500 has shown some “pickiness” recently. Went out with my empty car hauler to try and pick up a new toy. Ended up with a bad bounce/hop/shake that forced me to end up turning around after about 10 miles.

I’ve probably dragged that same trailer over a thousand miles empty at various times with a couple different 2500s beautifully. So to say frustrated would be an understatement.

Went out again and tried all sorts of changes (hitch height, air bag pressures, truck tire pressures, trailer tire pressures) with essentially no change. Trailer did have a fresh set of tires not long before, and they hadn’t balanced them as requested. Once they got done, about 80-90% of that went away. But still the stiffness of the 3500 isn’t as happy in the middle. Great loaded. Great with the big trailer. But empty isn’t great, but at least I don’t put as many empty miles as I used to.

My truck has a weird ass end vibration pulling dinky trailers like my ATV trailer @maybe 1500 lbs with the ATV on it? Doesn't seem to matter if it's just mine all the way forward in front of the axle so tongue weight is about 30%, or adding a buddy's behind the axle to get it around 15%.

It doesn't show up with the under 4K boat. Diminutive in comparison to the 38' Statement at the top of the thread. LOL Certainly not with the 12K 5th wheel alone or double towing all 16K - she's steady as a rock.

 

[Dodgeman]

The issue isn’t the truck it’s hooked up to, you just got lucky with the 2500.

Can you add any ballast forward of the axles? The further forward the better, and much better than an anti-sway setup that likely won’t correct the amount of sway you’ve described anyhow.

Are you sure they sold the boat on the correct trailer? There is a lot of boat/weight aft of the axles.

I've been pullilng (much smaller) boat trailers for 44 years. If you want to change the tongue weight, you don't move the boat forward on the trailer. That is usually fixed with very little flexibility. You move the axles back. The axles are usually attached with U-bolts. You would jack and suspend the trailer frame in front of and behind the axles, loosen the mounts and slides each one back equally. I suspect it wouldn’t take much to significantly affect tongue weight.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I've been pullilng (much smaller) boat trailers for 44 years. If you want to change the tongue weight, you don't move the boat forward on the trailer. That is usually fixed with very little flexibility. You move the axles back. The axles are usually attached with U-bolts. You would jack and suspend the trailer frame in front of and behind the axles, loosen the mounts and slides each one back equally. I suspect it would take much to significantly affect tongue weight.

True, and I've done that (sort of). Honestly didn't think about that.

On my little guy, the whole axle/spring subassembly can move on the frame.

 

[Blythkd1]

Nice setup!

 

[AH64ID]

I've been pullilng (much smaller) boat trailers for 44 years. If you want to change the tongue weight, you don't move the boat forward on the trailer. That is usually fixed with very little flexibility. You move the axles back. The axles are usually attached with U-bolts. You would jack and suspend the trailer frame in front of and behind the axles, loosen the mounts and slides each one back equally. I suspect it wouldn’t take much to significantly affect tongue weight.

I didn’t think of that either, thou I have seen many boat trailers like that.

This won't help, I'm just curious. I've towed a lot with trucks from less than half ton to Class 8. I'm not normally one to worry about tow ratings as long as the setup tows correctly and feels good. And I'm not the weight police. I've pushed the envelope from time to time. But I wonder what the reasoning was for buying a SRW truck when you knew you were going to tow 17k from the bumper? That's well into dually territory. In fact, I wouldn't be too keen on towing 17k from the bumper of my dually, let alone a lesser truck. We all get caught in situations where we don't have enough truck but it's one thing to take a boat a few miles to the lake with an inadequate tow vehicle, totally another to tow several hundred miles with the same setup.

17k is nothing to tow with any HD truck if it's a gooseneck or 5th wheel. 17k from the bumper is a totally different animal. I had to take a 12,600# park model RV from Nebraska to NW WA state a few years ago behind a 10,000# dually truck. I never was so glad to get something unhooked from my truck in my life, and I said never again. Still trying to fathom towing that boat with a 2500? A few miles? Yeah I get it. Hundreds of miles? Wow.

Ok I'm coming down off the soapbox. Not judging, just trying to understand the thought process. And like I said, I know this didn't help. But here's my advice on the WDH. Forget the hitch and trade trucks....again.

What makes you want a DRW over a SRW if they both have the same suspension and hitch? If you’re not above the axle rating and the trailer is loaded correctly the added wheels really won’t do a whole lot in that scenario, IMO.

Both SRW/DRW 3500’s are rated to 2,300/23,000 on the Class V both.

The 2,500 was only rated to 2,000/20,000, but it’s the same hitch. I’d be cautious with the 2500 due to the coil springs more than anything.

 

[Blythkd1]

Really like the big trips. 400's? Big OB's are way cool. What's the top speed?

 

[AH64ID]

Years of experience towing. I could care less about the bumper tow ratings. I go by how things tow and feel. You see my remarks about towing 12k from the back of a big heavy dually? It was a white knuckle ride, pretty sure my front tires left the road more than once. I don't know where these bumper tow numbers come from nowadays but they're borderline insane.

12K off the bumper of my 4th gen’s and they hardly know it’s there. Certainly closer to one finger driving than white knuckling. Almost all those miles are 2 lane, winding, rough roads, uneven bridges, etc. I wouldn’t hesitate to tow that boat with my SRW, if it was loaded/setup properly.

If the mfrs are doing the SAE tow tests on a closed course with nice smooth road surfaces, then I suppose these super high bumper tow numbers seem fine. But get out in the real world jumping on and off of rough bridges, maybe cornering at the same time, and that's totally different.

Case in point, look at what the OP is going through. Maybe he helps the issue with better weight distribution but who really wants to have to get everything just perfect so you can tow it? I still don't want that much weight behind a SRW going any distance. Suspension, axles, tow ratings may all be the same or nearly the same but duals make things feel much more stable.

Any trailer will be a nightmare to tow with insufficient tongue weight, so yes you really want to get it perfect. Perfect doesn’t have to be down to the pound, or a .1%. Perfect can be a range, which usually on a bumper pull is 13-15%. They still usually tow decent at 10-12%, and excellent at 15-17% if the hitch is rated for that much weight, but perfect is a range. It shouldn’t be that big of a deal to make something tow correctly.

DRW’s have a time and place, but they certainly aren’t the fix all for towing issues.

 

[Blythkd1]

12K off the bumper of my 4th gen’s and they hardly know it’s there. Certainly closer to one finger driving than white knuckling. Almost all those miles are 2 lane, winding, rough roads, uneven bridges, etc. I wouldn’t hesitate to tow that boat with my SRW, if it was loaded/setup properly.



Any trailer will be a nightmare to tow with insufficient tongue weight, so yes you really want to get it perfect. Perfect doesn’t have to be down to the pound, or a .1%. Perfect can be a range, which usually on a bumper pull is 13-15%. They still usually tow decent at 10-12%, and excellent at 15-17% if the hitch is rated for that much weight, but perfect is a range. It shouldn’t be that big of a deal to make something tow correctly.

DRW’s have a time and place, but they certainly aren’t the fix all for towing issues.

I'm happy for you.

 

[AH64ID]

I'm happy for you. You can tow 30k from the bumper of a 1500, it's fine with me but I wasn't looking to start an argument in this thread. My comments were meant for the OP, and I still stand behind them by the way, every one. But thank you for your input, really

BTW, I’m laughing at 30K on a 1500, not at you. I enjoy the discussions you're a part of.

I think a Ford Ranger is the only LD vehicle rated for 30K on the bumper.

 

[CdnHO]

Anxiously awaiting your scale/TW numbers.

Any way you can get it to a scale for accurate weights on all axles. Then drop the boat and reweigh for your true truck axle weights and TW?

I agree, until we see those numbers everything it just a guess.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

typically those larger trailer cradles cant be moved without cutting and welding, boat trailer should be around 70/30 axle location vs the standard 60/40. You have a lot hanging back past the rear axle. This is a trailer issue not truck issue. We need to see the weights

 

[jsalbre]

Looking at other pictures of Statement 380s and similar boats on trailers there appears to be a lot more distance between your winch and bow. Can the V stop be moved forward?

 

[Brutal_HO]

Looking at other pictures of Statement 380s and similar boats on trailers there appears to be a lot more distance between your winch and bow. Can the V stop be moved forward?

I thought that as well.

Apparently I didn't read this part well enough.

Gotta be the fuel weight... If even 1/4 of that is offsetting tongue weight...

Was there any setup (position on trailer) done for the 2500 tug and was that done dry or ??

I know it's subjective, but looking at a few other 380 with triples on trailers it kinda looks like they are all a little further forward on the trailer.

Where's COG on that beast?

 

[Jnrcarson]

Anybody else notice where the safety chain is attached ? In my experience chaining equipment down and my own boat safety chain it should be pulling away from the way the boat would slip off if the winch broke. The way it is would give it lots of momentum before the chain engaged. Just an observation. Nothing to add regarding the trailer sway.

 

[Brutal_HO]

FWIW, because I was curious I looked at some heavy manning trailers (online) and they all look to have fixed axle hangers on the steel trailers and perhaps fixed bolt through on the Aluminum trailers - also seemed to depend on year.

The bow stop is adjustable.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Looking at other pictures of Statement 380s and similar boats on trailers there appears to be a lot more distance between your winch and bow. Can the V stop be moved forward?

Yea id say that is the way to do it even if its welded it can be cut and moved, i would be willing to wager the perfect spot would be where the back if the hull is even with the back of the trailer

 

[Atlas717]

Update: weighed the tongue with a Sherline gauge….. 700lbs. About 4% tongue weight. I’m thinking that’s my problem huh. Now just need to figure out how to move it forward.

Did notice this today. Some grease blew out. I know zero about bearings. Normal? Need to get to a shop? I pulled the grease cap and it looks good and packed inside.

 

[AH64ID]

Update: weighed the tongue with a Sherline gauge….. 700lbs. About 4% tongue weight. I’m thinking that’s my problem huh. Now just need to figure out how to move it forward.

Did notice this today. Some grease blew out. I know zero about bearings. Normal? Need to get to a shop? I pulled the grease cap and it looks good and packed inside.

Yikes, yes that is absolutely your problem. You need to be at 10% minimum.

Are you close to your dealer? They hosed you on setup. The boat needs to move quite a bit forward, if that’s even the correct trailer for that boat.

Thats an odd place for grease to manifest. I think I’d pull that wheel and see where it originated.

 

[Atlas717]

Really like the big trips. 400's? Big OB's are way cool. What's the top speed?

Yep, the new V10 400’s. She’s done a little over 80mph loaded up with gear and a handful of people.