Remove, disable, render inoperable all telematics and other data sending signals

[cdntrucker]

Prerequisite here is that one has emptied the vehicle from any electronic devices, and/or have turned off the devices and placed them in a pouch where you have carefully tested that no cell, wifi or bluetooth data can enter or leave.

To stop EMF signal polution in cabin and to control modem/antenna connections one can wire up a radio switch splice with a remote to control the power (on/off) to UConnect nav panel. This method will disable all communication methods. This type of switch can also be used to create a hidden kill switch to cut off power to the ignition. The switches are about $20 and come with two remotes. This method makes it possible to keep the vehicle systems intact and turn on/off the features when needed.

 

[JimKIII]

Nudging this thread active again with new information about how much data is being collected.

1. Here's an article titled, "Your Car Data Grabs Your Info- Including Politics"

https://www.newsmax.com/finance/laurenfix/car-data-privacy-mozilla-study/2023/11/06/id/1141189/

2. And the Mozilla Foundation study the article references - first the main article, then the study directly relating to Dodge/Fiat/Chrysler data collection:

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/

*Privacy Not Included review: Dodge

How creepy is your car? We read the privacy policies so you don’t have to. Learn how your favorite car brand stacks up when it comes to protecting your privacy and security.

foundation.mozilla.org

Earlier in this thread, folks have pointed to this statement: "If you do not want any Emergency Data to be collected, or used, or shared by FCA US or Sirius XM, you must request the emergency services be deactivated together with the Services by calling us at 1-844-796-4827 and ask to cancel Uconnect and SiriusXM Guardian Services for privacy reasons." That is true. However, there is a huge price to pay as reported in the Mozilla Foundation write-up about this particular way of 'opting' out of FCA data collection.

"If you cancel for privacy reasons, wireless transmission network service will be deactivated for your Vehicle once your request has been processed, which means that: (i) remote transmission and collection of Covered Data from your Vehicle will be stopped; (ii) most Connected Services will not be available to you, including emergency and roadside services and Wi-Fi-enabled services; and (iii) your Vehicle will no longer receive updates to your in-vehicle manual or other over-the-air updates."

In other words, it sounds like OTA software updates are disabled, too. If that is the case, I suppose someone could still update the software using the thumb drive method.

 

[delmoniCO]

Bumping this thread for new article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html?unlocked_article_code=1.b00.WNY6.1fEAGvGKLlWF&smid=url-share

 

[unclelala]

Bumping this thread for new article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html?unlocked_article_code=1.b00.WNY6.1fEAGvGKLlWF&smid=url-share

OMG

 

[jsalbre]

If you sign up for a service that says it's going to track your driving style and habits, and don't think that info is getting shared with insurance companies then why do you think it exists? GM definitely should have been more clear about it, but I think it's pretty obvious. my wife's VW offers that service, and it says it will be used for insurance. Stellantis doesn't currently have anything like that, but they did purchase a company called "Mobilisights" in January 2023 for that purpose. I'd expect future vehicle lines to "offer" it.

 

[delmoniCO]

If you sign up for a service that says it's going to track your driving style and habits, and don't think that info is getting shared with insurance companies then why do you think it exists? GM definitely should have been more clear about it, but I think it's pretty obvious. my wife's VW offers that service, and it says it will be used for insurance. Stellantis doesn't currently have anything like that, but they did purchase a company called "Mobilisights" in January 2023 for that purpose. I'd expect future vehicle lines to "offer" it.

Actually Stellantis DOES have this service. It's right in the privacy policy for UConnect.

Uconnect® and SiriusXM Guardian - Privacy Policy

Find information here about your privacy rights and how your information may be used.

www.driveuconnect.com

 

[jsalbre]

Actually Stellantis DOES have this service. It's right in the privacy policy for UConnect.

Uconnect® and SiriusXM Guardian - Privacy Policy

Find information here about your privacy rights and how your information may be used.

www.driveuconnect.com

I said they don't offer a service based on your driving data that is designed to "allow you" to lower you insurance rates, which unlike OnStar and VW, they don't.

 

[delmoniCO]

I said they don't offer a service based on your driving data that is designed to "allow you" to lower you insurance rates, which unlike OnStar and VW, they don't.

That's not at all what your post said. Perhaps a service like that is what you were referring to (in your mind since, again, it was unwritten in your post) but that is not at all what the article I linked is discussing.

 

[jsalbre]

That's not at all what your post said. Perhaps a service like that is what you were referring to (in your mind since, again, it was unwritten in your post) but that is not at all what the article I linked is discussing.

It's exactly what my post says:

jsalbre said:
If you sign up for a service that says it's going to track your driving style and habits, and don't think that info is getting shared with insurance companies then why do you think it exists? GM definitely should have been more clear about it, but I think it's pretty obvious. my wife's VW offers that service, and it says it will be used for insurance. Stellantis doesn't currently have anything like that, but they did purchase a company called "Mobilisights" in January 2023 for that purpose. I'd expect future vehicle lines to "offer" it.

That's also exactly what that article you posted is talking about, though that article leaves out some details, like the fact that OnStar actually advertises their own insurance offering that explicitly uses that data.

 

[delmoniCO]

It's exactly what my post says:



That's also exactly what that article you posted is talking about, though that article leaves out some details, like the fact that OnStar actually advertises their own insurance offering that explicitly uses that data.

Sir you mentioned literally nothing about lowering insurance rates in your original post. Quite obviously if one is sending data to a company for the purposes of lowering your insurance premiums you would expect that the data would end up at an insurance company.

In fact, had you read the article and the privacy policy I linked, you may have learned that signing up for SiriusXM Guardian or UConnect connected features WILL collect this information from your Ram even after you have cancelled this service. You probably didn't sign up for UConnect to have Stellantis track your driving habits.

From the article:
Automakers and data brokers that have partnered to collect detailed driving data from millions of Americans say they have drivers’ permission to do so. But the existence of these partnerships is nearly invisible to drivers, whose consent is obtained in fine print and murky privacy policies that few read.

Especially troubling is that some drivers with vehicles made by G.M. say they were tracked even when they did not turn on the feature — called OnStar Smart Driver — and that their insurance rates went up as a result.

Later in the article:
The Cadillac owner in Florida said he had not heard of Smart Driver and never noticed it in the MyCadillac app. He reviewed the paperwork he signed at the dealership when he bought his Cadillac in the fall of 2021 and found no mention of signing up for it.

“When a customer accepts the user terms and privacy statement (which are separately reviewed in the enrollment flow), they consent to sharing their data with third parties,” Ms. Lucich wrote in an email, pointing to OnStar’s privacy statement.

But that statement’s section on “third-party business relationships” does not mention Smart Driver. It names SiriusXM as a company G.M. might share data with, not LexisNexis Risk Solutions, which G.M. has partnered with since 2019.
Further in the article:
In fact, before a Honda owner activates Driver Feedback, a screen titled “Respect for your Privacy” assures drivers that “your data will never be shared without your consent.” But it is shared — with Verisk, a fact disclosed in a more than 2,000-word “terms and conditions” screen that a driver needs to click “accept” on.

The services mentioned in the article DO track your driving habits - the point of the article is that not only is this tracking not explicit unless you wade through huge legalese agreements but also it is not mentioned explicitly that the data will then be shared with firms like LexisNexis and Verisk.

 

[jsalbre]

Look at anything you sign up for. Every agreement mentions third-parties, vendors, affiliates, etc, and never spells out exactly who. If it did they'd be making you resign contracts every month because companies change who they do business with on a regular basis.

A customer "not noticing" something in an app doesn't mean it isn't there, and doesn't mean it wasn't in one of the contracts he signed. Yeah, terms and conditions buried in contracts suck, but it's not something specific to this situation, and not something new, and it's been held that ignorance ("I didn't read the whole thing") doesn't make it invalid. This has been standard business operating procedure for longer than I've been alive. You have to either read every bit of every contract you sign and end user agreement you click on, or accept the risk of not knowing what you've agreed to.

 

[mountainears]

I went to the websites linked in the article and submitted a request for my information as well as opting out. For LexisNexis you can do an online form. Curious to see what they have on me…

 

[LegendaryLawman]

Not sure if it helps but when my father bought his 22 2500- he refused to download the ram app at purchase. I’m going to do the same when my 24 arrives. No interest in the app or its tracking/data mine.

 

[jsalbre]

Not sure if it helps but when my father bought his 22 2500- he refused to download the ram app at purchase. I’m going to do the same when my 24 arrives. No interest in the app or its tracking/data mine.

Downloading the app or not is irrelevant if the dealer activates the services at time of sale (which they are supposed to do as part of the PDI).

 

[LegendaryLawman]

Downloading the app or not is irrelevant if the dealer activates the services at time of sale (which they are supposed to do as part of the PDI).

I might be dead wrong- I was told its a requirement to download the Ram app at delivery to link the vin to the owner. I was told it actually hurts the dealer score with Stellantis if this isn't done. I believe this is what youre talking about or is there some other special activation that is completed? When we picked up the 22 from the dealer, they really pressured the app download for their score and to unlock items that can be used on the truck. Even asked if we can download and delete later. We declined both...

If I'm wrong, can you request that the service not be activated?

 

[jsalbre]

I might be dead wrong- I was told its a requirement to download the Ram app at delivery to link the vin to the owner. I was told it actually hurts the dealer score with Stellantis if this isn't done. I believe this is what youre talking about or is there some other special activation that is completed? When we picked up the 22 from the dealer, they really pressured the app download for their score and to unlock items that can be used on the truck. Even asked if we can download and delete later. We declined both...

If I'm wrong, can you request that the service not be activated?

They may have changed something then. Used to be that they activated the services for you so they were on when you got the truck. I’d just bring it up before pickup and ask that they don’t do any connected services activation just to be sure.

 

[thecastle]

I own an IT company and I do a lot of security work for customers. I'm quite aware of how much data is available and how its being used in some of the AI systems we're deploying. Facial recognition, license plate readers etc. What concerns me about RAM and others is they are collecting and selling every bit of information they can collect from customers to 3rd parties. Including law enforcement. Why use a warrant when you can just buy your movement data. Besides citizen if your not committing a crime you have nothing to worry about from law enforcement or your local government... Wait till we get automated tickets for speeding, illegally parking, failure to make a right turn to the right lane, impeding traffic in the left lane (stay right except to pass), or our vehicle deactivated for doing so... Yes, vehicle kill switches are coming as a new power of our law enforcement... https://hageman.house.gov/media/in-...es-government-controlled-kill-switch-all-cars A long with milage based taxation....

While we don't have an expectation of privacy in our auto movements.... Toll tags, License plate readers, Cell Phones and telematics uploading real time status to everyone. That does not mean that we need to willing give this information up, nor should we be ignorant as to what is being sold and potential uses. Its inconvenient to disable some of this, but is it really so? Last I checked an old school suction cupped garmin on the dash will navigate you just fine, without constantly phoning home with info about you.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I own an IT company and I do a lot of security work for customers. I'm quite aware of how much data is available and how its being used in some of the AI systems we're deploying. Facial recognition, license plate readers etc. What concerns me about RAM and others is they are collecting and selling every bit of information they can collect from customers to 3rd parties. Including law enforcement. Why use a warrant when you can just buy your movement data. Besides citizen if your not committing a crime you have nothing to worry about from law enforcement or your local government... Wait till we get automated tickets for speeding, illegally parking, failure to make a right turn to the right lane, impeding traffic in the left lane (stay right except to pass), or our vehicle deactivated for doing so... Yes, vehicle kill switches are coming as a new power of our law enforcement... https://hageman.house.gov/media/in-...es-government-controlled-kill-switch-all-cars A long with milage based taxation....

While we don't have an expectation of privacy in our auto movements.... Toll tags, License plate readers, Cell Phones and telematics uploading real time status to everyone. That does not mean that we need to willing give this information up, nor should we be ignorant as to what is being sold and potential uses. Its inconvenient to disable some of this, but is it really so? Last I checked an old school suction cupped garmin on the dash will navigate you just fine, without constantly phoning home with info about you.

Any maroon doing this should get a damn ticket. LOL

The road rage in Colorado attributed to these left lane losers got so bad (there was at least one death directly related to this exact issue), it prompted a revised statute/enhancement to allow for greater enforcement and fines of impeding traffic in the left lane regardless of speed. An education campaign that ran for 6 months where LE aggressively pulled drivers over and gave warnings preceded issuance of fines. In addition to an abundance of sign posts, they continue to post messages on traffic boards and yet the latest crop of "coastal migrants" seems to want to hang in the left lane...

https://www.codot.gov/programs/research/assets/Brochures/leftlanebrochure.pdf

 

[thecastle]

I feel your pain! I can assure you the left lane disease is not just a costal migrant phenomena. Living in Texas, it is very much a texan thing too (at least in the Dallas/Austin/San Antonio/Houston Triangle). I see people merge on to the freeway all the time and its like other lanes don't exist. straight to the left lane. There maybe no one else in any other lane. Then they drive 10 under the limit with there phones suction cupped to their windshield front in center in front of them (literally saw this last weekend). My theory is they go to the left lane so they can camp and don't have to worry about merging traffic. Texas rarely / does not enforce left lane discipline, its really not a thing here. Its amazing how much better traffic flows when people stop impeding traffic in the left lane, and camping out there. I can't tell you how many times I drive on I-10 and there are cars stacked in the "passing" lane, and no one is in the right lane. The right lane has become the passing lane.

 

[thecastle]

Anyway, I really do not like that my RAM is collecting information about me that I can't see and selling it to people whom I don't know. they are also making money off if it, and well I don't get a cut... what got me concerned about this issue, is finding out that GM was using onstar to track customers and selling the information to insurance companies. This week I also recieved a letter from a company saying my idenity had been stolen, and I never did bussiness with them. Some how this company bought my info and then had a data breach.

Car companies want to be technology companies. They see the future as being tech 1st, and an auto maker second. They are following the playbooks of google, facebook, et al. Profiting by Collecting and selling information about you to third parties that can do with it as they choose. I want to opt out. So I'm trying to understand what are the data collection mechanisms, and how to block them.

Remove 4G/LTE sim card, GPS blocker? I did notice that my truck does not upload vehicle status to ram for oil changes/etc. So my 2019 does not seem to provide as much telemetry as newer models.

Toll tag should go too, I know that houston has transponders in the overhead freeway signs to read your toll tags. Its how they measure the speed of traffic flow on freeways (good way to do automated ticketing in the future)