Remove, disable, render inoperable all telematics and other data sending signals

[UglyViking]

I don't see how it does it either, but I have a power supply for my Valentine 1 plugged in, and my truck gives zero updates to it's location, fuel, tire pressures, etc, in the UConnect or whatever App... and when I unplug that, it starts working again. Logically, it makes no sense, but somehow it interferes.

Hmm, I wonder if this is a "safety" item. Ram can't know what is plugged into these outlets, and both have to have the truck "on" to pull power. Perhaps the app won't connect if the truck has something to prevent that?

 

[Etoimos]

On my Gladiator with UConnect 4, a Sirius XM tech told me that as long as I had something plugged into my OBD2 (a Tazer mini in this case), they could not get updates from the truck.

 

[Shadowboxin20]

So did we get an answer on this? Does the iDash shut down connection? Would this mean a tuner would shut it all down also? I have zero ability to contribute to this thread but am curious on the application.

 

[UglyViking]

I've been waiting on getting parts to scan for the signal to confirm it's no longer active, however I've not had the time to do it and parts have been sparse. All signs seem to indicate that items plugged into the OBD port render the OTA communications inoperable, however I've not yet tested this. Perhaps I'll remote my obd port items this weekend and see if my truck attempts an OTA update.

 

[cdntrucker]

Walking around the vehicle with another phone looking for bluetooth or wifi is a good first sweep. There aren't really many other practical 2-way methods to communicate

The latest UConnect is running Android. It is using the GPS location exactly like a large Android tablet. The only difference is that it has a GPS antenna dongle that is mounted to the roof of the cabin for optimal line of sight.

Disconnecting the cellular modem will stop all two-way data transmissions from Uconnect. That is if it is a separate module. In the case of GMC 2010+ the GPS module was part of the 4x4 board. Removing the OnStar GPS meant losing 4x4. So the workaround was a Faraday cage of 4 layers of aluminum foil of the entire control box below the dash.

In either case, disconnecting the GPS antenna and wrapping the eSIM-based cell modem in several layers of aluminum foil will do the trick. The GPS module will be unable to obtain positioning signal from the outside world. The eSIM will be unable to connect to a cell tower to initiate a data transmission. It's unknown what repercussions these changes might have on UConnect functionality.

The only way to get the data to leave the vehicle is for the client to pay for their monthly subscription in order to keep the eSIM activated and able to connect with the cell network. Much like an iPhone which uses similar eSIM if it has no active plan it cannot send and receive data.

OTA updates to UConnect work exactly the same as with any Android devices. They must be connected to a computer network. In this case, mobile hotspot or active eSIM. It is possible that the update was downloaded and then applied at a later time when the vehicle was no longer moving. How this works exactly must be documented somewhere in order to meet certain safety guidelines.

The other aspect of spying is scanning your car or phone's bluetooth ID and wifi MAC address along your route. Devices such as bluetoad (https://www.iteris.com/products/travel-time/bluetoad) are scooping up electronic signals, creating profiles and fingerprints of people's locations.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[sstoner911]

I wonder if the OP uses Google on his phone? That would be kind of...well....silly

All I want to know, is MOPAR watching me pee on the side of the road with the rearview mirror camera?

 

[Brutal_HO]

I wonder if the OP uses Google on his phone? That would be kind of...well....silly

All I want to know, is MOPAR watching me pee on the side of the road with the rearview mirror camera?

The camera can't zoom in that far to make out anything.

 

[sstoner911]

The camera can't zoom in that far to make out anything.

Then I win!

 

[UglyViking]

Walking around the vehicle with another phone looking for bluetooth or wifi is a good first sweep. There aren't really many other practical 2-way methods to communicate

The latest UConnect is running Android. It is using the GPS location exactly like a large Android tablet. The only difference is that it has a GPS antenna dongle that is mounted to the roof of the cabin for optimal line of sight.

Disconnecting the cellular modem will stop all two-way data transmissions from Uconnect. That is if it is a separate module. In the case of GMC 2010+ the GPS module was part of the 4x4 board. Removing the OnStar GPS meant losing 4x4. So the workaround was a Faraday cage of 4 layers of aluminum foil of the entire control box below the dash.

In either case, disconnecting the GPS antenna and wrapping the eSIM-based cell modem in several layers of aluminum foil will do the trick. The GPS module will be unable to obtain positioning signal from the outside world. The eSIM will be unable to connect to a cell tower to initiate a data transmission. It's unknown what repercussions these changes might have on UConnect functionality.

The only way to get the data to leave the vehicle is for the client to pay for their monthly subscription in order to keep the eSIM activated and able to connect with the cell network. Much like an iPhone which uses similar eSIM if it has no active plan it cannot send and receive data.

OTA updates to UConnect work exactly the same as with any Android devices. They must be connected to a computer network. In this case, mobile hotspot or active eSIM. It is possible that the update was downloaded and then applied at a later time when the vehicle was no longer moving. How this works exactly must be documented somewhere in order to meet certain safety guidelines.

The other aspect of spying is scanning your car or phone's bluetooth ID and wifi MAC address along your route. Devices such as bluetoad (https://www.iteris.com/products/travel-time/bluetoad) are scooping up electronic signals, creating profiles and fingerprints of people's locations.

Hope this is helpful.

I appreciate the well thought out feedback.

Doing a sweep looking for bluetooth and wifi is fine, but those aren't really the systems I'm looking to disable. The primary way that the ram seems to communicate to the outside world is via an AT&T based cell module on the board of the head unit. Here is an interesting article (article) on it. I've not yet pulled the back off to see if the 19+ trucks have the same hardware but I'd wager a guess it is, and if not hopefully it's still an external unit.

I thought about disconnecting the GPS, and may still do that but my main concern is having control over when devices are on/off. So since I'm not using anything from the cell module I see no harm in removing it. I can easily set a reminder to check once a quarter for the latest uconnect updates and install over usb.

Honestly, you don't even need a device such as bluetoad. Your phone is constantly pinging and getting it's data and location stored for every cell tower it passes. It's all about how much protection you decide is worth the cost. One way to avoid that is a faraday bag, but that also makes daily life a bit more challenging in our modern connected world.

I wonder if the OP uses Google on his phone? That would be kind of...well....silly

All I want to know, is MOPAR watching me pee on the side of the road with the rearview mirror camera?

Why would using Google be silly? Whenever anyone brings up the topic of privacy, security or anonymity there is always this assumption it's all or nothing. You're 100% a caveman or who cares what "they" track. For 90% of people 90% of the time there is probably no concern. Obviously some people fall outside the spectrum but perhaps I just don't want to cede that control to others, or I want to choose when it's acceptable and when it's not.

 

[sstoner911]

I appreciate the well thought out feedback.

Doing a sweep looking for bluetooth and wifi is fine, but those aren't really the systems I'm looking to disable. The primary way that the ram seems to communicate to the outside world is via an AT&T based cell module on the board of the head unit. Here is an interesting article (article) on it. I've not yet pulled the back off to see if the 19+ trucks have the same hardware but I'd wager a guess it is, and if not hopefully it's still an external unit.

I thought about disconnecting the GPS, and may still do that but my main concern is having control over when devices are on/off. So since I'm not using anything from the cell module I see no harm in removing it. I can easily set a reminder to check once a quarter for the latest uconnect updates and install over usb.

Honestly, you don't even need a device such as bluetoad. Your phone is constantly pinging and getting it's data and location stored for every cell tower it passes. It's all about how much protection you decide is worth the cost. One way to avoid that is a faraday bag, but that also makes daily life a bit more challenging in our modern connected world.


Why would using Google be silly? Whenever anyone brings up the topic of privacy, security or anonymity there is always this assumption it's all or nothing. You're 100% a caveman or who cares what "they" track. For 90% of people 90% of the time there is probably no concern. Obviously some people fall outside the spectrum but perhaps I just don't want to cede that control to others, or I want to choose when it's acceptable and when it's not.

If you are worried about what your truck is sending out, you sound like you would also be using Duck Duck Go etc in the daily.

Google knows way more about you than your Ram....but that may not be true with the additional features of Alexa now present.

Dr. Robert Epstein is a good source on Google and other companies who collect info on you, and store that data forever.

 

[UglyViking]

If you are worried about what your truck is sending out, you sound like you would also be using Duck Duck Go etc in the daily.

Google knows way more about you than your Ram....but that may not be true with the additional features of Alexa now present.

Dr. Robert Epstein is a good source on Google and other companies who collect info on you, and store that data forever.

I work in the tech sector, and I build tools for others in the tech sector, so I'm very aware of what Google knows about me, and also what my cell carrier know about me, and my credit card companies, and my… well you get the picture.

Again, the point isn't about completely wiping myself off the map, but making it so that I, as the owner and operator, am the one who chooses what to share and when. With my other devices I can choose what data is shared. I can use tools like Proton VPN, little snitch, pfsense, etc to protect my internet traffic for my personal computing, and I can turn it off or let certain devices ignore those rules. I can choose to have two laptops so I can have one tied to me and one that is anonymous and private, or a third air gapped machine if I so choose. I can choose to run a google phone with all the google software that is constantly pinging back my location and a million other bits of data, and I can also choose to slip it in a faraday bag if I want.

The point is that I am the one in control, at least as much as possible. So while I appreciate your feedback, I am already well aware of the ins and outs of tech overall and how it tracks and shares data about you. What I have less experience with is the automotive world, hence my initial questions and comments here. In the current state, if I decided I "didn't want to be tracked while in my vehicle" I would have absolutely no way of removing myself from the digital space as my truck would always be narcing on me. In the future state, I can toss my phone in a faraday bag, and outside things like traffic cams I can be confident that I'm anonymous, or at least as anonymous as you can get in a new diesel truck. Again, I can't stress enough that it's that I want the control and I won't miss the features I would possibly lose.

Also, just note that DuckDuckGo may say they don't track data on you but I'd be highly suspect of that as there is no way we can confirm. Plus they have previously been seen with tracking cookies, that are supposedly not their own (source).

 

[dragon_ram]

Can you use conductive paint and just paint the shark fin to block all signals? Is there another antenna location? Ideally I’d just want to block TRANSMIT not receive (keep OTA and GPS)

 

[UglyViking]

Can you use conductive paint and just paint the shark fin to block all signals? Is there another antenna location? Ideally I’d just want to block TRANSMIT not receive (keep OTA and GPS)

There isn't going to be a way to easily block the transmit without also blocking the receive. TX/RX on radios use the same antenna, so if you block it, you've blocked both. You may be able to block it via code, but you're talking about basically hacking your trucks code, which would be almost impossible.

 

[dragon_ram]

There isn't going to be a way to easily block the transmit without also blocking the receive. TX/RX on radios use the same antenna, so if you block it, you've blocked both. You may be able to block it via code, but you're talking about basically hacking your trucks code, which would be almost impossible.

I get that. But until there becomes a solution for transmit only, would my question of using a conductive paint on the antenna itself be a workable solution? This leaves everything connected, is reversible, is not detectable (by say a dealership tech), and leaves the loads intact for any checksums that the system might be running.

 

[UglyViking]

I get that. But until there becomes a solution for transmit only, would my question of using a conductive paint on the antenna itself be a workable solution? This leaves everything connected, is reversible, is not detectable (by say a dealership tech), and leaves the loads intact for any checksums that the system might be running.

Potentially, theoretically yes? It depends on if the connection between the cell chip and the board is enough length to act as even a small antenna. Someone here, or another forum, had mentioned that they disconnected the antenna and still received an OTA update. So it's possible there is another antenna hardwired somewhere, the cables connecting the headunit are acting as an antenna, or the small wires that mount the cell device are.

 

[JimKIII]

You don’t physically have to do anything on the truck. You can go on the site and opt out of everything, and they’ll kill the data connection remotely. Outside of that, you’d have to open up the radio module and remove the wireless card off the circuit board.

@Jimmy07 - "You can go on the site and opt out of everything, and they’ll kill the data connection remotely".

Doesn't seem to be true. I did not pay for Ram Connect nor SiriusXM, don't have NAV and am past the 30-day free Ram Connect subscription. YET - I still get a monthly email from Ram telling me the health status of my truck, shows the exact mileage, and when due for next service. Also, earlier today I accidentally set off the alarm on my truck and fumbled around with the alarm button on the key fob to shut it off. When I got home I got this email:

Dear xxx,
The Theft Alert was triggered on your 2022 Ram 2500 on June 3,2022 at 22:31:44 GMT.

For further assistance, please call the Connected Services Contact Center at 1-800-777-3600.

How the hell does Ram Connect know any of the truck health or that I set off the alarm if my truck is not continuously sending data outbound - and that's without any paid subscription!!

Question: Where is the radio module in my truck and where may I find instructions on how to pull the wireless card from it?

 

[arx237]

@Jimmy07 - "You can go on the site and opt out of everything, and they’ll kill the data connection remotely".

Doesn't seem to be true. I did not pay for Ram Connect nor SiriusXM, don't have NAV and am past the 30-day free Ram Connect subscription. YET - I still get a monthly email from Ram telling me the health status of my truck, shows the exact mileage, and when due for next service. Also, earlier today I accidentally set off the alarm on my truck and fumbled around with the alarm button on the key fob to shut it off. When I got home I got this email:

Dear xxx,
The Theft Alert was triggered on your 2022 Ram 2500 on June 3,2022 at 22:31:44 GMT.

For further assistance, please call the Connected Services Contact Center at 1-800-777-3600.

How the hell does Ram Connect know any of the truck health or that I set off the alarm if my truck is not continuously sending data outbound - and that's without any paid subscription!!

Question: Where is the radio module in my truck and where may I find instructions on how to pull the wireless card from it?

Nope, it is true but:

You go to the ram connect site, bottom left of footer under Privacy settings and start digging through the policies. It has instructions on who/how you need to contact Ram to opt out of everything. It is not a setting you can control from any of the sites you have access to and I believe the telematics on the vehicle health are automatically started at purchase and are "trial" for something like 10 years.

EDIT:

Connected Privacy Policy:

Deactivate Connected Services and Stop Collection of Covered Data. If you do not want your Vehicle to transmit any Covered Data to FCA or others going forward, please contact us at 800-800-2813 and ask to “Cancel for Privacy Reasons”. This will result in the deactivation of your wireless transmission network service and will cease your access to most Connected Services features, including (if applicable) the SiriusXM Guardian safety and convenience services. It will also prevent updates to your in-vehicle manual and the implementation of any Wi-Fi services through the Vehicle. Please note that cancelling your SiriusXM Guardian subscription does not stop all transmission and collection of Covered Data; to stop data transmission you must request to “Cancel for Privacy Reasons” as set out above.

 

[Jimmy07]

@Jimmy07 - "You can go on the site and opt out of everything, and they’ll kill the data connection remotely".

Doesn't seem to be true. I did not pay for Ram Connect nor SiriusXM, don't have NAV and am past the 30-day free Ram Connect subscription. YET - I still get a monthly email from Ram telling me the health status of my truck, shows the exact mileage, and when due for next service. Also, earlier today I accidentally set off the alarm on my truck and fumbled around with the alarm button on the key fob to shut it off. When I got home I got this email:

Dear xxx,
The Theft Alert was triggered on your 2022 Ram 2500 on June 3,2022 at 22:31:44 GMT.

For further assistance, please call the Connected Services Contact Center at 1-800-777-3600.

How the hell does Ram Connect know any of the truck health or that I set off the alarm if my truck is not continuously sending data outbound - and that's without any paid subscription!!

Question: Where is the radio module in my truck and where may I find instructions on how to pull the wireless card from it?

Opting out, and subscribing for services are two different things. If you have a connected radio, it is always sending out truck data regardless of your subscriptions. You have to call them to opt out of everything. You have a 2022, which uses different connected services than pre-2022’s. For the pre-2022’s, there is a document with all the info on opting out completely, or of only certain things. I don’t see one for the 2022 ram connect services, so just call that number.
I’m not sure about the non-nav 8.4 Uconnect 5 radios, but for the 8.4 nav, and 12” Uconnect 5 radios, all the connectivity is handles by a separate telematics box. It can be disconnected, and then you would have to use AlfaOBD to disable all the VehConfig 8 telematics settings.

 

[sstoner911]

I wonder if they use the health data to deny warranty claims?

 

[JimKIII]

Nope, it is true but:

You go to the ram connect site, bottom left of footer under Privacy settings and start digging through the policies. It has instructions on who/how you need to contact Ram to opt out of everything. It is not a setting you can control from any of the sites you have access to and I believe the telematics on the vehicle health are automatically started at purchase and are "trial" for something like 10 years.

EDIT:

Connected Privacy Policy:

Deactivate Connected Services and Stop Collection of Covered Data. If you do not want your Vehicle to transmit any Covered Data to FCA or others going forward, please contact us at 800-800-2813 and ask to “Cancel for Privacy Reasons”. This will result in the deactivation of your wireless transmission network service and will cease your access to most Connected Services features, including (if applicable) the SiriusXM Guardian safety and convenience services. It will also prevent updates to your in-vehicle manual and the implementation of any Wi-Fi services through the Vehicle. Please note that cancelling your SiriusXM Guardian subscription does not stop all transmission and collection of Covered Data; to stop data transmission you must request to “Cancel for Privacy Reasons” as set out above.

Thanks arx237! As concise as ever.