Ram better come out with a a FULL fifth gen HD soon

[gimmie11s]

And if I had to put money on which truck will hit 500k miles with the least issues, my money would go on the Super Duty.

I agreed with your whole post until this point.

What is the brand most hot shot'ers are driving?

What's The Best Dually For Hotshots?

Best pickup truck for hotshots, car hauling, and general freight. Decide between 1 and 2-ton duallies, and among the top manufacturers.

www.expressauto.group

7 best trucks for hotshot trucking in 2024: Which one ranks top?

The best trucks for hotshot trucking can move heavy loads over long and short distances. Learn more about the best models to purchase for a sound business.

www.tuko.co.ke

These are the guys putting miles on the trucks. Bigly miles.

 

[WXman]

I agreed with your whole post until this point.

What is the brand most hot shot'ers are driving?

What's The Best Dually For Hotshots?

Best pickup truck for hotshots, car hauling, and general freight. Decide between 1 and 2-ton duallies, and among the top manufacturers.

www.expressauto.group

7 best trucks for hotshot trucking in 2024: Which one ranks top?

The best trucks for hotshot trucking can move heavy loads over long and short distances. Learn more about the best models to purchase for a sound business.

www.tuko.co.ke

These are the guys putting miles on the trucks. Bigly miles.

Funny, I just watched a Tow Piglet video on this topic earlier today. He seemed to gravitate toward Cummins because it's an I-6, which means it's easier to do work on yourself. He was saying that doing your own maintenance is key to making money. But, in the same video he had just dumped $10k into a repair on his Cummins with less than 200k on the clock. So it was kind of confusing. The Ford almost never has major issues. Even CP4 failures are less common on those vs. the 19/20 Cummins trucks. I've seen countless people with 400k or more on a 17+ Power Stroke and zero issues. Don't know hardly anyone with that many miles on a Ram without repairs.

I have a cousin who's actually wanting to start a hot shot business and he's trying to talk me into getting into it with him. He's been doing a lot of research to try and figure out what trucks to get to start out. There's a lot to think about. It's almost mind boggling when you start trying to run numbers on everything. Admittedly a lot of it is assumption. No truck is perfect an any can break down.

 

[gimmie11s]

Funny, I just watched a Tow Piglet video on this topic earlier today. He seemed to gravitate toward Cummins because it's an I-6, which means it's easier to do work on yourself. He was saying that doing your own maintenance is key to making money. But, in the same video he had just dumped $10k into a repair on his Cummins with less than 200k on the clock. So it was kind of confusing. The Ford almost never has major issues. Even CP4 failures are less common on those vs. the 19/20 Cummins trucks. I've seen countless people with 400k or more on a 17+ Power Stroke and zero issues. Don't know hardly anyone with that many miles on a Ram without repairs.

I have a cousin who's actually wanting to start a hot shot business and he's trying to talk me into getting into it with him. He's been doing a lot of research to try and figure out what trucks to get to start out. There's a lot to think about. It's almost mind boggling when you start trying to run numbers on everything. Admittedly a lot of it is assumption. No truck is perfect an any can break down.

Very true on the Ford vs Ram CP4 failures. I don't get it, yet the aftermarket industry is making a killing on Ford (not Ram) "disaster prevention" CP4 kits.

Ive read the CP4 on the Ram is "over" clocked, but not so on the Ford.

Who knows I guess.

 

[Docwagon1776]

There's a lot to think about. It's almost mind boggling when you start trying to run numbers on everything. Admittedly a lot of it is assumption. No truck is perfect an any can break down.

Not exactly the same, but my grandfather ran a small OTR trucking company back in the late 60's to early 70's before he sold out to buy a farm. His advice to everyone was you were taking a big risk if you didn't have at least 3-5 trucks. If you only had one or two and one was down, not only were you having to eat repair costs but you were losing out on revenue and hurting your reputation in the market. I watched a lot of people lose for every person who won, and the combination made me pretty risk averse to any sort of high capital requirement entrepreneurship.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

I don't know. I've been driving and towing with a 2019 Super Duty for a week or two now and I don't see any of this, even on gravel county roads. The cab, doors, etc. feel way more solid and robust than the 4th Gen Ram cab and doors. This truck I'm driving was the last year of the TorqShift 6-speed and it shifts perfectly every time, has excellent engine braking, and from what I hear it's dead nuts reliable. The aluminum body seems to be a plus also, this one was hit by a car pulling into a parking spot which caused minor body damage down to the raw metal on the passenger side in a 18" swipe and it's been like that now for who knows how long with zero rust or corrosion forming on the damaged area. The only thing I don't like is the steering ratio because it's slow as a snail, takes a ton of turn on the wheel to get turn in the front end. Steering needs to be improved. But overall this truck is way ahead of the Ram HD. The power from this thing is amazing too. Just nuts how hard it pulls. I've driven a lot of HD Rams. The Ford honestly just feels like a more solid truck while going down the road overall. Everything feels "tight". Can't say that about a Ram HD with 80k on the clock.

As far as the Ram 4th gen cab vs. 5th gen cab, you guys are crazy. The 5th gen cab is a major improvement. The second row seat doesn’t have that stupid curve in the front of it. The load floor is totally flat. The doors are thicker, safer, and more solid. Even the handles feel higher in quality. There is more interior volume. There is more sound insulation. It’s a more modern exterior design that simply looks better. It was just a full top to bottom improvement. They should have put that cab on the HD 5 years ago.

We've been in an F-350 since May, and I'm with you. We came from a 22 Ram 1500. I looked hard at and drove several Ram HD trucks, and they're just not as nice as the 5th gen 1500.

We've put several thousand miles on the Super Duty, towing our rig across multiple states, on some of the worst roads in the country. We've had no problems with it, and honestly, if Ram doesn't get it together by the time we're ready for a new truck we'll probably end up in another Super Duty.

 

[Riccochet]

It's like Ram is completely ignoring the HD trucks. They're already giving the 1500 another facelift. The only thing I can think is that they are going to give it a complete redesign when new engine options become available.

 

[BilletWilson]

We've been in an F-350 since May, and I'm with you. We came from a 22 Ram 1500. I looked hard at and drove several Ram HD trucks, and they're just not as nice as the 5th gen 1500.

We've put several thousand miles on the Super Duty, towing our rig across multiple states, on some of the worst roads in the country. We've had no problems with it, and honestly, if Ram doesn't get it together by the time we're ready for a new truck we'll probably end up in another Super Duty.

View attachment 64806

I purchased a 22 Platinum F350 when Ram was having issues with the Aisin last year. I really liked it at first but then the interior started falling apart with rattles and squeaks all over. I pulled the dash to try and eliminate them and was floored when I learned how they're put together. Ram uses twice the fasteners compared to Ford which also uses extremely thin and flimsy cheap plastic everywhere. You overlook simple things that Ram does like rubber coated cup holders. Ford doesn't so they're hard plastic making everything you put in them rattle going down the road.

On the mechanical side, Ford is VERY scary. The Powerstroke is a beast but the design is overly complicated. You need to lift the engine just to replace the secondary oil pan gasket (a very common leak). I also dont like not having a transmission dip stick and plastic used for the oil pan. Where they can cheap out and save money they do and they aren't shy about it. Ford also doesn't undercoat the frame or axles well so having that great all aluminum body feeling sinks to your stomach when you look under the truck and see nothing but rust. Within 3 months my doors started to creak so I took it in to the dealership. They said "New to Ford" I said my first in 25 years. They said this is very common, extremely expensive to repair and they needed to get worse before Ford would approve repair. Lovely thing to hear on a $100K pickup.

As far as towing, the Powerstroke & 10spd are amazing. Always has power in reserve and the transmission knew what gear to be in. The exhaust brake is a joke, basically nonexistent. The truck always felt skittish going down the road getting pushed around by the load.

In July I found a 23 3500 Limited MegaCab and took it for a test drive since Ram identified and corrected the snap ring issue in the Aisin. As soon as we sat in the seats my wife looked at me and said "My god what a difference in quality this is". The truck felt heavier, smooth going down the road, and while I always wished Ram updated to a 10 spd I was happy to back in the Aisin. Not sure what Ram did but the 23 definitely has updated tuning as this is the best Aisin Ive ever owned. With a load it's an absolute animal. The exhaust brake and grade shifting is absolutely incredible. Finally back in a quality truck.

 

[Poolmonkey]

Ram can't sell trucks right now. Now everyone is sucking for air, but Ram seems to be the hardest hit. You want a 1500, they will practically give it to you but then the interest rates will eat you alive representing a couple hundred bucks more than two years ago with 2.5 times the interest rates. So, Ram has started doing BIG rebates and a few other things, but has yet to go big on rate reductions on longer terms. OK, so I get 1 or 2.9 on 36 or 48 months... I'm still paying 1200 to 1500 a month on a 60K truck...even after 10K in rebates.

Ram needs to make that 2500/3500 cab as big as the 1500 at the very least, look at some kind of XE type battery set up (with attendant 7500 federal tax rebate) so when you do daily driving to the store transfer station etc., you can save some serious bucks for that first 25-30 miles with most daily driving being covered by those miles (at least in my case). Then make a few of the "packages/groups" standard and maybe a 10 speed transmission... What's ZF doing about that? If the Hurricane engine is good, put it in and turbocharge it. Cummins? How about the ICE Hydrogen? Or even the 6.7 block adapted to other fuels including gas...

They need to do something. This playing around the edges with new mirrors (an improvement for sure) and new steering wheel controls ain't gonna cut it any longer on HD's. And sales will reflect how long in the tooth the Ram HD's are becoming...

Considering the garbage that keeps piling up in these things over time, dated is good imo.
None of that above sounds good to me.
At this point, I would pay a premium for roll up windows, an ignition key, far fewer buttons etc…

 

[wrvond]

My F350 DRW crew cab was 24 feet long bumper to bumper. Perhaps that’s why my new 2500 Mega cab feels so small to me.
On the one hand, the Ram cab feels smaller inside but the storage space seems greater. The center console of the Ford is a huge well you’ll never fill up, but the Ram console is better organized with more useful space. I just wish all models came with the covers like Limiteds.
The Ford drivetrain is much more refined than the Ram (talk diesels). The inverted design of the V8 cuts turbo lag to near zero, acceleration is smooth and linear. The engine is so quiet you forget you’re driving a diesel. When I accelerate in my Ram it shakes and vibrates like it has a broken motor mount. Engine noise is always present.
I used the turbo brake on the Ford in the mountains out west delivering campers to California, Washington, Utah and Colorado, it worked very well keeping my speed where I set it. I don’t know if Ram’s exhaust brake is a true exhaust brake or not (Ford isn’t) but I imagine it’ll work just fine.
I drove my Ford for six years and over 350,000 miles. I never had any squeaks or rattles. The doors shut solidly and firmly. Never had rust underneath, either. I absolutely hated the wheels on that truck as they wouldn’t hold air due to electrolytic corrosion from the TPMS and Ford refused to fix the (model wide) problem.
I appreciate the lighter aluminum hood and tailgate of my Ram and wish more of it was so my cargo capacity was better.
The CP4 is a disaster just waiting to happen, Ram’s move away from that pump was the primary reason I didn’t consider Ford or GM this time.
The doors on my Ram do feel just a bit lighter but seem solid enough, the hood works really well and may be better than the Ford. I like having a step that I can use with the tailgate up or down rather than down only.
Ford’s sunroof is definitely a weak sister and I NEVER opened mine. I doubt I’ll ever open the one I have now, either.
My Ford Lariat had locking storage under the back seat that could fold “flat” with the seat bottoms folded up. It wasn’t truly flat and never really worked well since you’d have to unload the storage area in order to fold it down.
The Megacab design is fantastic IMO, just wish the in floor storage was a bit larger on the passenger side. Putting the jack under the passenger seat is genius. I’m glad I waited til 23 so I got the new mirrors and new fuel pump.
I have towed cross country with an F450 with ten speed and found it to be very smooth and a measurable benefit to fuel mileage. A 48 gallon tank on my Ram would sure be nice.
I really liked my Ford and would still be driving it today if the worthless dealerships hadn’t ruined it. But there are a lot of things about this Ram I like even better. Don’t know if I’ll ever get used to the massive delay starting so the glow plugs can warm up, but by and large things are just “different”, not better or worse, and just take getting used to.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

I purchased a 22 Platinum F350 when Ram was having issues with the Aisin last year. I really liked it at first but then the interior started falling apart with rattles and squeaks all over. I pulled the dash to try and eliminate them and was floored when I learned how they're put together. Ram uses twice the fasteners compared to Ford which also uses extremely thin and flimsy cheap plastic everywhere. You overlook simple things that Ram does like rubber coated cup holders. Ford doesn't so they're hard plastic making everything you put in them rattle going down the road.

On the mechanical side, Ford is VERY scary. The Powerstroke is a beast but the design is overly complicated. You need to lift the engine just to replace the secondary oil pan gasket (a very common leak). I also dont like not having a transmission dip stick and plastic used for the oil pan. Where they can cheap out and save money they do and they aren't shy about it. Ford also doesn't undercoat the frame or axles well so having that great all aluminum body feeling sinks to your stomach when you look under the truck and see nothing but rust. Within 3 months my doors started to creak so I took it in to the dealership. They said "New to Ford" I said my first in 25 years. They said this is very common, extremely expensive to repair and they needed to get worse before Ford would approve repair. Lovely thing to hear on a $100K pickup.

As far as towing, the Powerstroke & 10spd are amazing. Always has power in reserve and the transmission knew what gear to be in. The exhaust brake is a joke, basically nonexistent. The truck always felt skittish going down the road getting pushed around by the load.

In July I found a 23 3500 Limited MegaCab and took it for a test drive since Ram identified and corrected the snap ring issue in the Aisin. As soon as we sat in the seats my wife looked at me and said "My god what a difference in quality this is". The truck felt heavier, smooth going down the road, and while I always wished Ram updated to a 10 spd I was happy to back in the Aisin. Not sure what Ram did but the 23 definitely has updated tuning as this is the best Aisin Ive ever owned. With a load it's an absolute animal. The exhaust brake and grade shifting is absolutely incredible. Finally back in a quality truck.

That hasn’t been my experience at all.

We're currently full time nomads (37 states in two years) in our rig. Our truck is used, a lot.

We have a Lariat Ultimate and came from a Laramie. The build quality of our Super Duty is close to our Ram 1500, and surpasses what we saw in Ram's HD trucks.

I have no bias here. I come from a long list of GM trucks and we really loved our Ram 1500. I looked at several HD Rams because we really wanted to stick with Ram, but they're being left behind. Both Ford and GM are making better HD trucks right now.

 

[BilletWilson]

That hasn’t been my experience at all.

We're currently full time nomads (37 states in two years) in our rig. Our truck is used, a lot.

We have a Lariat Ultimate and came from a Laramie. The build quality of our Super Duty is close to our Ram 1500, and surpasses what we saw in Ram's HD trucks.

I have no bias here. I come from a long list of GM trucks and we really loved our Ram 1500. I looked at several HD Rams because we really wanted to stick with Ram, but they're being left behind. Both Ford and GM are making better HD trucks right now.

I dont agree with this at all. Sure, I believe units built during the heart of the covid crisis suffered in quality, but every manufacturer did. Fords quality is way down to the point the CEO acknowledge the issue, replaced the quality officer, and stated to investors it will take around 10 years to restore quality. Ford also has the highest recalls by a large amount compared to all other auto manufactures. I was hoping the new 23+ was built better but when I checked about 8 or so trucks out they were build just as badly. The next time your in one, grab the center console right beside where your knees are and you understand what I mean. Same cheap flimsy squeaky plastic from years past.

GM's 10 spd is weak. A side by side comparison to Fords 10 spd by Randy's Transmission shows how much weaker . The new platform is also plagued with major electrical problems. While I waited for my 23 Ram I was seriously checking out the Ultimate until I seen tons of guys having staining issues just from rain hitting the doors and dashes being replaced from sinking in just by touching it. I also prefer a solid front end so I quickly decided not to pursue one any more.

I personally believe Ram was smart my not revamping the HD's over the past 3 years with supply constraints along with staffing and quality control issues automakers have been having. It's like they took a page out of Toyotas playbook. After being in the competition for 10 months I absolutely appreciate being back in a Ram. The overall quality is apparent and the Aisin is a joy. Sure, there are things I like better about GM & Ford like the bigger bed sizes, but I'll take quality first every time.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

I dont agree with this at all. Sure, I believe units built during the heart of the covid crisis suffered in quality, but every manufacturer did. Fords quality is way down to the point the CEO acknowledge the issue, replaced the quality officer, and stated to investors it will take around 10 years to restore quality. Ford also has the highest recalls by a large amount compared to all other auto manufactures. I was hoping the new 23+ was built better but when I checked about 8 or so trucks out they were build just as badly. The next time your in one, grab the center console right beside where your knees are and you understand what I mean. Same cheap flimsy squeaky plastic from years past.

GM's 10 spd is weak. A side by side comparison to Fords 10 spd by Randy's Transmission shows how much weaker . The new platform is also plagued with major electrical problems. While I waited for my 23 Ram I was seriously checking out the Ultimate until I seen tons of guys having staining issues just from rain hitting the doors and dashes being replaced from sinking in just by touching it. I also prefer a solid front end so I quickly decided not to pursue one any more.

I personally believe Ram was smart my not revamping the HD's over the past 3 years with supply constraints along with staffing and quality control issues automakers have been having. It's like they took a page out of Toyotas playbook. After being in the completion for 10 months I absolutely appreciate being back in a Ram. The overall quality is apparent and the Aisin is a joy. Sure, there are things I like better about GM & Ford like the bigger bed sizes, but I'll take quality first every time.

You're free to disagree.

It's great to have options, and right now, the Super Duty is the best one. The market agrees.

 

[BilletWilson]

You're free to disagree.

It's great to have options, and right now, the Super Duty is the best one. The market agrees.

You're free to have your opinion too, but sales don't equate to being the best. McDonalds doesn't make the best burger just because they sell the most. I guess I'll also say I grew up in a Ford family and my dad was ecstatic when I purchased the Super Duty. Funny how he was disappointed when I went back to Ram but after riding in and driving it he looked at me and agreed it's the better truck.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

You're free to have your opinion too, but sales don't equate to being the best. McDonalds doesn't make the best burger just because they sell the most. I guess I'll also say I grew up in a Ford family and my dad was ecstatic when I purchased the Super Duty. Funny how he was disappointed when I went back to Ram but after riding in and driving it he looked at me and agreed it's the better truck.

When the point of the thread is talking about sales numbers, and the point of my reply is talking about which truck I'll buy, sales numbers are relevant. Certainly at least as relevant as "grab the center console."

Either way, my main point was that my experience with my Super Duty was similar to someone else's, and not at all like yours. If Ram doesn't update their HD trucks when I'm ready to buy, it'll be another Super Duty. If they had updated their trucks, I wouldn't be in a Super Duty.

As an aside, I grew up in a GM family. My dad's exact words when I bought my Ram..."well, at least it isn't a Ford." You can imagine his excitement when we moved into a Super Duty...

 

[BilletWilson]

When the point of the thread is talking about sales numbers, and the point of my reply is talking about which truck I'll buy, sales numbers are relevant. Certainly at least as relevant as "grab the center console."

Either way, my main point was that my experience with my Super Duty was similar to someone else's, and not at all like yours. If Ram doesn't update their HD trucks when I'm ready to buy, it'll be another Super Duty. If they had updated their trucks, I wouldn't be in a Super Duty.

You said the market agrees yet I have a 23 Ram sitting in my driveway. Who is they because I drove them all and that was still my choice. I drive a Mega Cab so space is not an issue for me. If anything, I like having the additional space that does not exist in the other two choices. I have 3 tool bags across the back that holds tools, additives, etc. that literally have no place in the others. I've stated that Ram is more stable and controlled pulling a load and the exhaust brake is second to none. Hell, GM doesn't even put an exhaust gauge in their trucks since it's basically non existent (Fords not far behind). If you actually think the exhaust brake in Ford is good then you've obviously never had a load behind an Aisin equipped truck going down a grade. My Ram handles a load better and is higher quality compared to the others. That's not just me, it's literally everyone who has climbed all over both trucks.

If you want to get really into details, Ford is still using the CP4 which everyone else has abandoned and has it burried in the valley of the V. Have you ever actually seen your fuel pump? They also tell you to use a snow kit in the winter to prevent snow from building up in the wide open air intake on the passenger side grill. You can actually see the block on the Cummins so it doesnt take much to understand repairs will be easier and much more cost effective.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

You said the market agrees yet I have a 23 Ram sitting in my driveway. Who is they because I drove them all and that was still my choice. I drive a Mega Cab so space is not an issue for me. If anything, I like having the additional space that does not exist in the other two choices. I have 3 tool bags across the back that holds tools, additives, etc. that literally have no place in the others. I've stated that Ram is more stable and controlled pulling a load and the exhaust brake is second to none. Hell, GM doesn't even put an exhaust gauge in their trucks since it's basically non existent (Fords not far behind). If you actually think the exhaust brake in Ford is good then you've obviously never had a load behind an Aisin equipped truck going down a grade. My Ram handles a load better and is higher quality compared to the others. That's not just me, it's literally everyone who has climbed all over both trucks.

If you want to get really into details, Ford is still using the CP4 which everyone else has abandoned and has it burried in the valley of the V. Have you ever actually seen your fuel pump? They also tell you to use a snow kit in the winter to prevent snow from building up in the wide open air intake on the passenger side grill. You can actually see the block on the Cummins so it doesnt take much to understand repairs will be easier and much more cost effective.

More people have a Super Duty sitting in theirs. Crazy, if there's a better truck out there...

 

[BilletWilson]

More people have a Super Duty sitting in theirs. Crazy, if there's a better truck out there...

Ford just have more fleet sales. If they're so great why are you on this forum? Ford has been #1 for 46 years so something landed you here................

 

[UglyViking]

If you two don't knock it off I'll ask if the iPhone or Android is better!

Jokes aside, I don't know that anyone will ever win the whole "better truck" argument. There are literally generations of guys arguing about this, both die hard brand loyalists and guys who just want "the best" at the time of purchase.

I think Ford, Ram, and GM all have their pros and cons right now. Ram was first to market with the updated interior with the big 12" screen, but GM and Ford have arguably caught up or surpassed depending on who you ask.

I do really dig the cab space of the Ford, and how fast it is off the line. Never towed with one but heard the prior years still had issues with getting the right gear for that 10-spd, but that seems like an easy enough trans tuning fix.

I don't know. I like them all for different reasons, but nothing has personally made it so that I just have to run out and get a new truck, and frankly I don't expect I will for quite some time. I love my '14 about as much as my '19, and god willing I'd love to fill out the stable with a 3rd gen mega cab and a second gen. That does make me a bit of a fanboy I suspect, but I'm ok with it.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

Ford just have more fleet sales. If they're so great why are you on this forum? Ford has been #1 for 46 years so something landed you here................

Sigh. I already covered this...

I owned a Ram. I wanted a Ram 3500. I'll buy a Ram when they update the HD trucks and catch up to the others. That's one reason why your replies have been somewhat ridiculous.

Any other questions?

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

If you two don't knock it off I'll ask if the iPhone or Android is better!

Jokes aside, I don't know that anyone will ever win the whole "better truck" argument. There are literally generations of guys arguing about this, both die hard brand loyalists and guys who just want "the best" at the time of purchase.

I think Ford, Ram, and GM all have their pros and cons right now. Ram was first to market with the updated interior with the big 12" screen, but GM and Ford have arguably caught up or surpassed depending on who you ask.

I do really dig the cab space of the Ford, and how fast it is off the line. Never towed with one but heard the prior years still had issues with getting the right gear for that 10-spd, but that seems like an easy enough trans tuning fix.

I don't know. I like them all for different reasons, but nothing has personally made it so that I just have to run out and get a new truck, and frankly I don't expect I will for quite some time. I love my '14 about as much as my '19, and god willing I'd love to fill out the stable with a 3rd gen mega cab and a second gen. That does make me a bit of a fanboy I suspect, but I'm ok with it.

Android, clearly. Anyone who disagrees is wrong.