Need help on suspension fix

[Rockcrawlindude]

Seems plausible.

Many people don’t realize that the bolt is not the pivot point, it’s the bushing. The bolt is just clamping the joint. The inner sleeve isn’t supposed to move, it’s clamped tight. The bushing is supposed to do all the flexing.

 

[jsalbre]

I can’t help with why it fells the way it does, but for tightening there are better options than big expensive torque wrenches these days.

I’ve got a 3/4” digital toque adapter that’ll do 600 ft-lbs, a huge honkin’ breaker bar, and a length of galvanized pipe that’ll fit over the end. The whole setup cost me about $115, vs several hundred for the torque wrench I’d have needed for the same job (my hitch requires 430 ft-lbs for assembly).

 

[ClawSS]

@jsalbre I saw a 1/2" drive one of those on SlickDeals on sale, but it only went up to 147 ft.lbs.

Regardless of the outcome (which I hope to attempt the test this weekend), I am learning that on these coil sprung vehicles, not only does the shock dampen the vibrations, but also every control arm joint & trackbar joint.
Whereas leaf springs have a couple of eyelets and a shock.

 

[jsalbre]

@jsalbre I saw a 1/2" drive one of those on SlickDeals on sale, but it only went up to 147 ft.lbs.

Regardless of the outcome (which I hope to attempt the test this weekend), I am learning that on these coil sprung vehicles, not only does the shock dampen the vibrations, but also every control arm joint & trackbar joint.
Whereas leaf springs have a couple of eyelets and a shock.

This is the one I have. I was wrong, it goes up to 750 ft-lbs, not 600. The price has gone up $15 since I bought it. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009GLITFW

 

[ClawSS]

Ok, so I did NOT attempt this "fix". My son and I were already in the shop installing a E85 sensor kit on his cammed Sierra (my previous truck that he said NEEDED a cam and headers instead of the old-man whisper truck).

But, once done I got underneath mine to inspect and prepare for the job and noticed that the NUT side had "locks" on them similar to the trackbar "wings", but also the shoulders were intentionally rounded to prevent the severe torqueing I was about to give 'em.

That meant I needed to work on the BOLT side. Well, the bolt head was blocked by the rear shock tube on the lower control arm (axle end), and less appealing to get to on the others considering the tire and body.
All during this investigation, I was remembering I'd need some leverage on these things...not just an open end wrench (which for some odd reason I have a 30mm combo wrench that had all kinds of dust on it hanging on the peg wall). I also had a 30mm 1/2" socket, but a 12pt....and that made me much less comfortable doing it.

So...I chickened out. By my figurin', I'd have to remove the shock, then either struggle with the close quarters or put it on the lift, remove both rear wheels, remove both rear shocks, loosen all of the control arm bolts.
Then reinstall the wheels, put the truck on the ground...bounce it for good measure (which I wouldn't want to do on jackstands, BTW), maybe put the truck on jackstands & remove the wheels again. and proceed to crank on these 8 separate SOBs with whatever means necessary for 240 ft-lbs without hurting or killing either of us.

I am of the belief that if those NUTS were able to be loosened from that side....I'd be done. But no. How bad is the annoying vibration...well yesterday it wasn't that bad.

Question for the Off Road lifted guys: Do all aftermarket control arms require the torque and have the special "torsilastic bushing" or similar? I am assuming that these help dampen the vibration that a normal Delrin or other would just transfer and make matters worse.

 

[OLEJOE]

I sure was hoping you had tried it and it worked. I still don’t have any idea why it does what it does. I men either here or somewhere else about it being frame flex and was told it couldn’t happen. I still don’t understand why the transmission and transfer case don’t have more weight on them at the driveshaft than they do. The transfer case shifter moves (or the cab) at the same rate as the shudder. So I don’t know if the drive train is moving or the cab. But I do know it’s very annoying. It’s hard to carry on a conversation in the truck when it’s doing what it does and just glide across really rough places. Idk. Thanks for the update. I hadn’t got under mine to see what was going to be involved in the bolt loosening experiment.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

Ok, so I did NOT attempt this "fix". My son and I were already in the shop installing a E85 sensor kit on his cammed Sierra (my previous truck that he said NEEDED a cam and headers instead of the old-man whisper truck).

But, once done I got underneath mine to inspect and prepare for the job and noticed that the NUT side had "locks" on them similar to the trackbar "wings", but also the shoulders were intentionally rounded to prevent the severe torqueing I was about to give 'em.

That meant I needed to work on the BOLT side. Well, the bolt head was blocked by the rear shock tube on the lower control arm (axle end), and less appealing to get to on the others considering the tire and body.
All during this investigation, I was remembering I'd need some leverage on these things...not just an open end wrench (which for some odd reason I have a 30mm combo wrench that had all kinds of dust on it hanging on the peg wall). I also had a 30mm 1/2" socket, but a 12pt....and that made me much less comfortable doing it.

So...I chickened out. By my figurin', I'd have to remove the shock, then either struggle with the close quarters or put it on the lift, remove both rear wheels, remove both rear shocks, loosen all of the control arm bolts.
Then reinstall the wheels, put the truck on the ground...bounce it for good measure (which I wouldn't want to do on jackstands, BTW), maybe put the truck on jackstands & remove the wheels again. and proceed to crank on these 8 separate SOBs with whatever means necessary for 240 ft-lbs without hurting or killing either of us.

I am of the belief that if those NUTS were able to be loosened from that side....I'd be done. But no. How bad is the annoying vibration...well yesterday it wasn't that bad.

Question for the Off Road lifted guys: Do all aftermarket control arms require the torque and have the special "torsilastic bushing" or similar? I am assuming that these help dampen the vibration that a normal Delrin or other would just transfer and make matters worse.

Once you get all the bolts loosened up this is how I would bounce the truck and get the suspension settled so i could torque it all. I don’t know if it’s osha approved but here’s what I would do

Make sure it’s not gonna roll away on you. Chock the front tires good or put it in 4wd whatever you need to do to keep the front tires parked.

I would put the wheels/tires back on it and put a floor jack under the rear diff and lift the truck off of the jack stands and remove the jack stands then I’d drop the floor jack quickly. That would give one solid bounce then I would back the truck out of the driveway and back into the driveway two or three times then park it level and put it back in the air on jack stands(under axle) and torque itall at ride height

Most factory control arm bushings are vulcanized bushings and most aftermarket bushings are something other than vulcanized bushings. Many options out there some are poly, some are Johnny joints some are heims there are a bunch of options.

 

[OLEJOE]

UPDATE:
After studying and looking and beating and banging on everything underneath my truck, I have reduced the shudder but not eliminated it yet but I think I have found something. I was looking at the exhaust pipe after the Y pipe where it fits in the hanger. The rubber holes are elongated. Raising the pipe up raises the engine, transmission and transfer case. So I loosened the bolts where the pipe bolts to the manifold and then jacked the pipe up and retightened the bolts. But I only got to do one side and had to leave. The tail end of the transfer case now has weight on it and I can’t hardly wait to loosen both sides and repeat. A pipe that long has a lot of leverage. The passenger side clamp is very crooked on there being tightened way more on the bottom than the top,and that’s how it was before so I still have some to do. It’s not like riding in an airplane but the majority of the extra shaking is gone. The engine and transmission dropped probably 3/8 to 1/2 inch and is now sitting on the mount.
I’m going to park it in my shop tonight and let it cool off and see if loosening both sides retightening will help further. Looks like the engine is leaning slightly toward the right side now.

 

[Tater86]

UPDATE:
After studying and looking and beating and banging on everything underneath my truck, I have reduced the shudder but not eliminated it yet but I think I have found something. I was looking at the exhaust pipe after the Y pipe where it fits in the hanger. The rubber holes are elongated. Raising the pipe up raises the engine, transmission and transfer case. So I loosened the bolts where the pipe bolts to the manifold and then jacked the pipe up and retightened the bolts. But I only got to do one side and had to leave. The tail end of the transfer case now has weight on it and I can’t hardly wait to loosen both sides and repeat. A pipe that long has a lot of leverage. The passenger side clamp is very crooked on there being tightened way more on the bottom than the top,and that’s how it was before so I still have some to do. It’s not like riding in an airplane but the majority of the extra shaking is gone. The engine and transmission dropped probably 3/8 to 1/2 inch and is now sitting on the mount.
I’m going to park it in my shop tonight and let it cool off and see if loosening both sides retightening will help further. Looks like the engine is leaning slightly toward the right side now.

Let me know if that works!. Jumped over here from bookface, per Claw. I have a 2023 CCLB Hemi and am experiencing the same thing. I am scheduled for a ride along with a local dealer/off-road shop to analyze the issue. Everyone talked to said it could be out of balance tire, to high air pressure to bad motor mounts.

 

[OLEJOE]

Well I got under there and took both sides loose after I had done the one side and it popped pretty loud when I loosened the driver side. It definitely helped. Before I could raise the tranny and transfer case with my hand at the driveshaft but not now. I think it will get even better after everything gets settled back down. It’s still fairly stiff but not getting the reverberations now after hitting a bump. I test drove it on a really rough road near me and it seems better but won’t really know until I drive it awhile.If you try this be sure to spray the bolts with penetrating oil before hand.
Ps: If your ride along produces any thing be sure to let us know.

 

[Tater86]

Have either of you checked to see if all your cylinder's are working? My truck also seems to have a rougher idle when stopped and at park, but once you start driving it smooths out. One suggestion I got from my friend, who is a mechanic, stated I could have a bad cylinder which would explain my idle situation and he said that possibly could throw a shock down the drive line to ripple the back end.

 

[OLEJOE]

I think if it had a misfire the computer would throw a code. Mine is smooth at idle and highway speed. It starts the shaking when hitting cracks or bumps in the road. But I disable MDS.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Have either of you checked to see if all your cylinder's are working? My truck also seems to have a rougher idle when stopped and at park, but once you start driving it smooths out. One suggestion I got from my friend, who is a mechanic, stated I could have a bad cylinder which would explain my idle situation and he said that possibly could throw a shock down the drive line to ripple the back end.

Your friend should know that there would be CEL if that was the case most of the time.

 

[Tater86]

Your friend should know that there would be CEL if that was the case most of the time.

Correct, it should but it doesn't always throw one that would turn on the check engine light.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Correct, it should but it doesn't always throw one that would turn on the check engine light.

For a miss 99% of the time you will get a code

 

[OLEJOE]

Mine just does it on rough surfaces. Smooth surface roads don’t create any problems.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

Have either of you checked to see if all your cylinder's are working? My truck also seems to have a rougher idle when stopped and at park, but once you start driving it smooths out. One suggestion I got from my friend, who is a mechanic, stated I could have a bad cylinder which would explain my idle situation and he said that possibly could throw a shock down the drive line to ripple the back end.

I hope you don’t take your truck to that guy for repairs. He’s an idiot.

 

[ClawSS]

@OLEJOE , I will be all over this in the morning! I hope you are on to something. I also agree that I can easily lift my t-case/trans with very little effort. It was never like that on other vehicles.

 

[OLEJOE]

@OLEJOE , I will be all over this in the morning! I hope you are on to something. I also agree that I can easily lift my t-case/trans with very little effort. It was never like that on other vehicles.

It definitely moved when I loosened the bolts on both sides and that might have been enough but I jacked the pipe up about an inch and a half at the first hanger and then retightened the bolts. I haven’t driven it enough to declare absolutely that it’s fixed but it seems to have worked so far. The only bolt that is hard to get to is the top one on the right side. I had to use 2 long extensions and a universal but it wasn’t that hard to get loose with the pressure off of the bottom one. The bolts are on the side on the left side.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

@OLEJOE . Are you saying that your exhaust was rubbing hard parts which was causing vibrations and rattles and you were able to loosen it and move it to hang freely as it should?