Hey, First Time Truck Buyer Here! could use some advice....

[Motoman501]

Hi guys,

I'm new to this site and probably not as knowledgeable as some but last Friday I sold my 2015 2500 Cummins and bought a 2019 2500 6.4. To be honest, I wasn't thrilled with the Cummins as a daily driver and I only tow about 4-5 times a year. I had the 68rfe auto transmission which I hated and thought the shifting was terrible. I also got annoyed with other small things like supposedly needing to let the turbo cool even after a highway run. With the stock tires on the Cummins I was able to get about 19 mpg on a strictly highway run, maybe 15 mpg in town. I later added 295/70r18 Cooper StMaxx tires and my mileage dropped to 15-16 mpg highway and 12-13 mpg in town. My travel trailer weighs 6500 dry, I would guess with the loaded trailer and truck I'm at least 8500lbs + as my wife packs the whole house for camping. Pulling the trailer with the Cummins was awesome, not going to lie. Power is amazing and effortless and as noted, the exhaust brake works great. I only averaged about 9.5 mpg towing.

Prior to hitting 30,000 miles on the Cummins I had two emissions sensors go out, both covered under warranty. One was returning from a hunting trip in the middle of nowhere and the other was towing the trailer home from a camping trip. This concerned me and I spoke with two different local diesel repair shops. Both of them claimed that if they didn't need a diesel, they wouldn't own a modern one. If you have out of warranty repairs, they can be insanely expensive. After agonizing over the decision to keep the Cummins or not, I sold it for $2000 less than I paid for it new four years ago.

I only have 130 miles on the 6.4 but so far I really like it and the 8 speed transmission is amazing. It is so much better as a daily driver in my opinion. At the end of this month I'll tow the trailer for the first time and am fully expecting a different experience but for my needs I'm sure it will be fine. Btw the payload on my 6.4 is just over 3200lbs and on the 2500 Cummins it was 2200lbs, so if you go diesel, I would definitely get the 3500.

 

[archer75]

Hi guys,

I'm new to this site and probably not as knowledgeable as some but last Friday I sold my 2015 2500 Cummins and bought a 2019 2500 6.4. To be honest, I wasn't thrilled with the Cummins as a daily driver and I only tow about 4-5 times a year. I had the 68rfe auto transmission which I hated and thought the shifting was terrible. I also got annoyed with other small things like supposedly needing to let the turbo cool even after a highway run. With the stock tires on the Cummins I was able to get about 19 mpg on a strictly highway run, maybe 15 mpg in town.

Let the turbo cool? Never heard that and in daily driving I don't drive mine any different than anything else. Everywhere I go, aside from towing, is short trips. 5.6 miles to work. And schools are all right down the street as is the grocery store. Truck is 4 years old and only 26k miles on it. My previous truck was 9 years old and 45k miles on it. Despite many road trips. So i'm all about the very short trip daily driver. Again, no issues.
I guess after towing it does cool as the truck is idling as i'm unhitching and such.

I've gotten 23mpg on a road trip, not towing. 15mpg around town. About 11mpg while towing and our trailer is a bit heavier than yours.
No issues on mine so far. Old timers always complain about modern diesels. They're fine. There's all the new fangled tech and kids and their damn rock n roll and get off my lawn! I get a box of blue DEF maybe twice a year. Maybe. Not a big deal. It's the fear of potential issues rather than the actual issues.

I bet the 8 speed is nice, it will help the 6.4 a lot. I wish they had it with the diesels. Fords coming out with the 10 speed for the new super duties and i'd love to test it out.
At some point we'll be getting a larger trailer or 5th wheel.

 

[DevilDodge]

Hi guys,

I'm new to this site and probably not as knowledgeable as some but last Friday I sold my 2015 2500 Cummins and bought a 2019 2500 6.4. To be honest, I wasn't thrilled with the Cummins as a daily driver and I only tow about 4-5 times a year. I had the 68rfe auto transmission which I hated and thought the shifting was terrible. I also got annoyed with other small things like supposedly needing to let the turbo cool even after a highway run. With the stock tires on the Cummins I was able to get about 19 mpg on a strictly highway run, maybe 15 mpg in town. I later added 295/70r18 Cooper StMaxx tires and my mileage dropped to 15-16 mpg highway and 12-13 mpg in town. My travel trailer weighs 6500 dry, I would guess with the loaded trailer and truck I'm at least 8500lbs + as my wife packs the whole house for camping. Pulling the trailer with the Cummins was awesome, not going to lie. Power is amazing and effortless and as noted, the exhaust brake works great. I only averaged about 9.5 mpg towing.

Prior to hitting 30,000 miles on the Cummins I had two emissions sensors go out, both covered under warranty. One was returning from a hunting trip in the middle of nowhere and the other was towing the trailer home from a camping trip. This concerned me and I spoke with two different local diesel repair shops. Both of them claimed that if they didn't need a diesel, they wouldn't own a modern one. If you have out of warranty repairs, they can be insanely expensive. After agonizing over the decision to keep the Cummins or not, I sold it for $2000 less than I paid for it new four years ago.

I only have 130 miles on the 6.4 but so far I really like it and the 8 speed transmission is amazing. It is so much better as a daily driver in my opinion. At the end of this month I'll tow the trailer for the first time and am fully expecting a different experience but for my needs I'm sure it will be fine. Btw the payload on my 6.4 is just over 3200lbs and on the 2500 Cummins it was 2200lbs, so if you go diesel, I would definitely get the 3500.

Pretty much the same experience I had with my 2013. Except it spent 3 weeks one time and 5 weeks the next sitting waiting for parts.

I agree completely with all your statements,but my 392 only has the 6 speed transmission. (I still have something to look forward to)

There are lots of thoughts on Diesels as short trip daily drivers. Why they invented the Turbo timer. Not sure if they are needed, but I know lots of guys that say they are. The DEF fluid was annoying, and the constant worry of my short trips being detrimental outweighed the extra ability outside my normal towing. Out of the 60 or so times I tow a summer, I miss the torque maybe twice. I thought I missed the exhaust brake, but the HEMI comes down the same grades at the same speed, with the same control.

Most of the time I had the Cummins, my 99 V10 still had to be relied on.

The bottom line is the 6.4 and the Cummins are both truck motors. They both do the same thing different.

The reason I went with the Cummins in 2013 is because the 5.7 wasn't able to do the same things differently, at least not our 03, compared to the 99 V10.

Either way you will get a very capable truck. Just depends if you want the green handle or the black handle at the pump (do not forget the DEF fluid too)

 

[Motoman501]

In the manual it describes the need to let the turbo cool even after a moderate highway trip but especially after towing. Also, many recommend running the exhaust brake on all the time to help keep the vgt turbo from building up carbon and failing, it seems to be a rather common and expensive problem. I loved towing with the Cummins and the power is addicting but the minor annoyances of operating it and the risk of huge repair bills led me to my new truck. Now if I could delete and they put a transmission in the Cummins similar to the one in my 6.4, it might be a different story.

 

[Ogamiitto]

.........The Cummins will chug along at 1650 and climb the hill nicely. The 392 will be in a lower gear, but at 4000 rpm, and also climbing the hill at 60 mph. That is the real difference....the gas engine produces the same amount of power as the diesel but at a higher rpm.

To climb your hill at the same speed, rate of doing work, you have to make the same power. To make the same power with the 392, you have to rev it higher. And that's why some do not like gas engines as they give the impression of working harder to pull a load. But it's just the nature of the beast......

thank you, thank you , thank you....that was a clearly put , concise explanation of the general difference between those two engines and i actually understood it!

so , while 392 gives the impression of working harder, it's simply operating normally? without the stress that we all think the engine's going through when we hear it work that way. but, it does use more gas, comparatively, because it has to rev higher to gain that necessary torque. do i have that right?

.......Going downhill is something a lot of people do not understand. Gas engines have natural engine braking. This comes from having a throttle butterfly valve. When the throttle is closed, your foot off the gas pedal, the piston on the intake stroke pulls a high vacuum on the intake manifold. This pulling vacuum on the intake, tends to slow the piston and results in natural engine braking. Diesels have no throttle valve and have no natural engine braking without some added device.

Diesels have some device, either on the exhaust or in the valve train that turns the piston into a comptressor on the exhaust stroke. This compression on the exhaust stroke provives resistance to the piston and results in a slowing force on the piston. The modern light truck diesls all come with exhaust brakes tk provide "engine" braking when slowing. The older diesels, usually before 2007 did not have this feature and had little to no engine braking.

So going downhill should be a similar experience with a new truck. Slow down, select a lower gear, and descend the hill with minimal use of the truck brakes.

okay, i get that. again, thanks...that was some good foundational info. i'll definitely use this going forward trying to learn how to descend downgrades better.

so, what does the tow mode button do on a gas engine, if it doesn't have exhaust brakes? does it have to do with reworking the gearing better to tow more efficiently? is there more to it than that?

 

[Ogamiitto]

......When going downhill, use a gear one lower than the gear you would use going up. That is straight from the CDL handbook.....

i've heard that before. didn't know it came from the CDL handbook. duly noted....thanks!

......With the Cummins the exhaust brake kept it at 45 mph. With the HEMI, I select 3rd gear and guess what, 45 mph down the hill.

Like @hutchman said, the Cummins has to have something added to engine brake...the HEMI jusf has to get a bit higher into the RPMS.....

i remember towing with my landcruiser downhill. following the manual, i kept the rig in a lower gear and the rpms would shoot up past 5k. i have to admit the noise worried me. however, i'm sure the Hemi is better suited to dowing that and the higher RPMs won't freak me out as much.

 

[Ogamiitto]

......... I've never once wished I went with the gas engine.

i'm sure i wouldn't either. i didn't want to go over 70k on this vehicle ...mainly because it keeps the finances similar to what i had on the Landcruiser. if i didn't need...and i say "need" as to more of what my family wants in a truck like this, i probably would have cut out a lot of this stuff and opted for the diesel. the one thing i do know that i'm getting more of by going with the Hemi, is the payload capacity in the 3500. that i have no doubts about.

 

[Ogamiitto]

........but again, these this is based on my numbers and my needs.

if there's one thing i've learned since i've been on this forum...and it was your advice from the get go.....is that the choice of which engine to go with has to do with a lot of variables. and you really have to figure out what works best for you and your situation.

it took me a while, but i have. and, thanks to all the advice i got here, i'm at ease with that decision.

 

[Ogamiitto]

.......... BTW, we live in California and have been up and down the Grapevine many times. The gas engine works fine.......

hearing from folks that actually live in CA and have traversed the grapevine....well, your recommendation means a lot. thanks!

With that said, if you get the Hemi, pay the added $145 and get the 4:10 gears and don't put on large tires. .........

already way ahead of you. got the 4.10 gear ratio on my order. hearing just how many people recommended it , i was very happy to learn just how important that was before i placed my order.

my tires will stay the same size. right now it's all about function for me. once these wear through, i'll put on what i had in my landcruiser.....some BFG KO2s....but at the same size as stock.

 

[DevilDodge]

@Ogamiitto it is very refreshing to see you take all of our advice, sort through our opinions and make an educated choice.

Very glad to see that you weighed what you need, with what you want.

Tow Haul mode allows the transmission to stay in gear longer, pick a lower gear more suited for the engines power curve, and it allows it to down shift sooner when going down hill.

Can not wait to see your truck and you putting it to work.

 

[Zinga]

Someday or some year, if you have extra money to spend , install 8 piston calipers and braided SS brake lines. The added braking power will lower your anxiety when you're driving down long steep grades. Plus, the pedal feel is amazing. I did this and it's one of the reasons why I'm keeping my old truck. The brakes and pedal feel is outstanding.

Find out the RPMs for the peak torque on the engine. On my V10, it's about 3200 rpm. Going up steep grades, I kept the RPMs at about 3000. Going up the grapevine, I can easily maintain 50-55 mph unless I get blocked by a slower big rig. And if that happens, big deal. Even though I know I can spin the engine a lot higher, I have never seen a reason to work the engine harder. Last year on our trip to Colorado, the engine burned 1/4 quart of oil during the entire trip and it had about 130,000 miles at that time. Here's a link to the elevation profile we drove (one way).

The one thing that I'm careful with is the tow/haul mode going downhill. When you're going down a grade, it might downshift to maintain speed, or downshift if you get on the brakes. It doesn't happen all the time but enough to get your attention because it'll send the engine RPMs to the stratosphere. When that happens, I toggle tow/haul off while braking and after I slow down a couple MPH, I toggle it back on. I know the engine is designed to spin high RPMs but if I can easily maintain speed downhill by tapping the brakes, why spin the engine high.

If you take care of the engine, transmission, change rear end fluid and repack bearings when needed, it'll tow fine for many, many years.

 

[Ogamiitto]

......... I sold it for $2000 less than I paid for it new four years ago....

wow....that's a great situation to be in!

welcome to the forum!

.........I only have 130 miles on the 6.4 but so far I really like it and the 8 speed transmission is amazing. It is so much better as a daily driver in my opinion. At the end of this month I'll tow the trailer for the first time and am fully expecting a different experience but for my needs I'm sure it will be fine. Btw the payload on my 6.4 is just over 3200lbs and on the 2500 Cummins it was 2200lbs, so if you go diesel, I would definitely get the 3500.

keep us posted on that first tow with the Hemi. i's be really interested in you experience.....especially because i tow close to what you do.

 

[Ogamiitto]

.......I bet the 8 speed is nice, it will help the 6.4 a lot. I wish they had it with the diesels. Fords coming out with the 10 speed for the new super duties and i'd love to test it out.
At some point we'll be getting a larger trailer or 5th wheel.

this is the one this i'd like to hear more about on the forum. how people like this transmission compared to the old one and how great it is to tow with.

 

[DevilDodge]

Fromwhat i gather, the 8 SPDR takes car of the large gap from 1st to 2nd and the odd shift down from 3rd to 2nd...my only complaints about the 6 speed in mine.

It is nice to know the next truck will be better than the one I am enjoying now.

 

[Ogamiitto]

@Ogamiitto it is very refreshing to see you take all of our advice, sort through our opinions and make an educated choice.

Very glad to see that you weighed what you need, with what you want.

Tow Haul mode allows the transmission to stay in gear longer, pick a lower gear more suited for the engines power curve, and it allows it to down shift sooner when going down hill.

Can not wait to see your truck and you putting it to work.

if that is the case about Tow/Haul mode, then i'm glad the Hemi has it!

so, with all your help , i was able to figure out which direction i wanted to go with this truck. here's the build i went with...

2019 3500 Longhorn Megacab. 4X4. Granite crystal exterior color. Black/cattle tan interior
6.4 Hemi V8
8 speed auto trans.
rambox utility group
deployable bedstep
upfitter electronic module
dual alternators 380 amps
sunroof
auto level rear air suspension
safety group
4.10 axel ratio ( please clap)
towing tech group
longhorn level 1
snow chief group

 

[DevilDodge]

Now that sir, is a luxury tug boat that will serve your purpose well.

Anxious to hear we did you right...or be told to fill out form ID-10-TS.

But, I think you will not be disappointed at all.

 

[DevilDodge]

Oh, and i sure did clap for the 4.10, the only thing I wanted that I didn't get on mine...but I will just appreciate it more when i do

 

[Motoman501]

Still working towards getting 500 miles on the truck so I can start towing but around town I love the 8 speed. The first two gears are low and it shifts quickly and very smoothly. At 45mph it will be in 6th gear but unlike the 68rfe in my Cummins, a slight press on the pedal and it quickly shifts down with no clunking and has instant power. The ratios feel great so far. Driving to Sacramento today so by next weekend I’ll be ready to hook the trailer up.

 

[Ogamiitto]

Now that sir, is a luxury tug boat that will serve your purpose well.

Anxious to hear we did you right...or be told to fill out form ID-10-TS.

But, I think you will not be disappointed at all.

thanks! although, if it were just up to me, i would've cut down on some of the luxuries. i remember building out a laramie with the same equipment as what i ordered and it coming out to about 4k less.
other than some nicer materials and those directional headlights, i really don't know why such a price difference. i would've just went for the bighorn and only added options that were conducive to making towing easier. but, the nice cabin on this build makes it easier for the family. especially for the longer trips, we have planned in the future. i really can't wait to try this rig out towing to experience the difference on our trips.

to all out there, who are curious and may need help figuring out their builds, here's my thinking on why i ordered what i ordered....

1) engine- the biggest decision. as has been stated many times throughout this thread, there are a lot of variables in making this decision and you should really make your choices based on what's best for your needs. i went into this wanting a diesel, and once i got a hold of all of the facts, it wasn't the best choice for me. i left my last tow vehicle for 2 reasons. one, to have a rigs that towed more efficiently and two, to have more payload capacity. going with a gas engine in a 3500, with a 4.10 gear ratio is going to give me 15,220lb towing capacity with a 4200lb payload. towing a RV trailer that's 7300lbs max..... gives me a truck with some great capability that i won't be left wanting for anytime soon. ( now those payload and towing numbers are admittedly projections....but even if i'm in that ballpark , i'll still be happy).

2) mega cab and ramboxes- these are the two reasons that drew me to the Ram brand and pushed all other choices off the table. the room of the mega cab and the ability to fold down those rear seats to a flat loading space gave us a ton of possibilities of utility. especially knowing that i wasn't going to get a camper shell for the bed. the ramboxes are a great storage idea. especially if you tow an airstream. if you don't know, Airstreams are NOT known for a lot of outside storage, leaving your tow vehicle and inside your RV to store items that you may not need much, but should have around in case of emergency...like tools, air compressors, etc. while going for the rambox option precludes you from a lot of aftermarket options, the idea of them work for us.

3) auto level rear air suspension- i store my airstream in my backyard. i have a typical suburban home layout...it just happens to have enough room to store and move it along the side of my house on to the front driveway. while i use a dolly to do that, i usually hitch my airstream to my Landcruiser there. on a 3-4% incline. seeing how the 3500 is a taller vehicle, i got the rear air suspension so i could drop the bed lower and not having to worry about cranking up the airstream's tongue jack way too high so that the rear bumper of the trailer can hit the driveway. at least i hope it works that way. i also hear that this option can make the ride of the 3500 smoother. while i was fine with the ride quality as it is, i won't complain if that is the case.

4) tech- any and all hardware and software that makes towing easier. that's the prime reason that we're going for this truck, so anything that improves our experience towing the better. all the cameras and a nice big, clear screen to view them is a huge positive. being able to zoom in on the rear bumper so i can back that truck's hitch perfectly to the trailer with little help would be great in cutting down our set up time. i can not wait to try all this out.

5) upfitter electronic module and snow chief group- we do some boondocking now and then...so having the ability to add more lighting hardware on to the truck is a good thing. the auxiliary switches that come in the snow chief group is a nice way to add all those optional accessories without having to add more switches. keeps everything looking stock. i think you need the upfitter module for that, so i go that too.

6) longhorn- while not needed...definitely liked. one of the nicest interiors i've ever seen in a truck let alone most cars. the black/ cattle tan combo is a favorite color scheme of mine. i've had similar in other cars and ...again, while i didn't need it at all..... it was simply a want.

hope that helps...or entertains...some of you out there

 

[Ogamiitto]

Still working towards getting 500 miles on the truck so I can start towing but around town I love the 8 speed. The first two gears are low and it shifts quickly and very smoothly. At 45mph it will be in 6th gear but unlike the 68rfe in my Cummins, a slight press on the pedal and it quickly shifts down with no clunking and has instant power. The ratios feel great so far. Driving to Sacramento today so by next weekend I’ll be ready to hook the trailer up.

i like hearing about more people's experience with this transmission. makes me feel good about going the direction i went....or at least being prepared for any quirks that may come down the line of ownership. can't wait to hear about your upcoming towing experience too....thanks for your input on this thread!