Hey, First Time Truck Buyer Here! could use some advice....

[Ogamiitto]

hey, folks- I'm a first-time truck buyer and could use some advice. i'm coming from a 2017 Toyota Landcruiser, which i love...a lot. unfortunately, it doesn't do a great job of towing. specifically what suffers is the LC's payload capacity is zeroed out, even though it can easily tow the rig. a story I'm sure you all heard before. what i'm towing is a 25ft. airstream that weighs in at 7300lbs loaded. it has a tongue weight of 833lbs. i started looking into the Ram 3500 megacab. primarily for the payload capacity......and having the capability to handles a larger trailer if we ever choose to move up to that. i do live in the Antelope Valley in Ca. we're at a decent elevation, so if we're going south there's a significant downhill grade and if we go north...at least if we choose to take the 5 north. we're looking at going through the Grapevine. which has some very steep declines and inclines. so i thought it would be smart to go to a diesel engine as well.

so now, i've got a build going at Dennis Dillon and wondering if the Hemi would work out fine for us, given the cost of either diesel engine. what do you all think? this would not be a daily driver. i'd tow about 8-10 times a year at varying distances. it's be the second car in a household that would occasionally run errands with it. does anyone have any idea what the mileage is on a Hemi....towing a load like my airstream and not? any and all advice would be appreciated. thanks in advance!

 

[DevilDodge]

Welcome. The Hemi vs Cummins debate.

Two totally different engines doing the same thing different.

Good to hear you already realize payload and towing considerations.

The 2 things leading me to my thought is 355 days a year you do not intend to be towing, and the truck being a 2nd vehicle most of the time.

The going in cost of the diesel doesn't make much sense for this use. BUT, you do live at elevation, which the diesel does better.

The diesel will get better mileage, but will require some additional love.

The HEMI with the 8spd really opened up the 392 to being at its potential.

The HEMI will get around 15 driving and around 10 towing. Not great, but actually just as good as it's 1500 brother.

If you understand the HEMI has to turn to get its power, you won't miss anything about the diesel.

I always say, if you are towing under 13000, enjoy towing at the speed limit and never in a hurry, will be daily driving more than towing, and live in an area with few steep grades, the HEMI is all you need.

If you answer no to 3 of those questions...just get the Diesel.

The 6.4l is a true HD motor, not like the 5.7 it replaces.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Thanks for joining us

 

[archer75]

I was in a similar boat but do use my truck as a daily driver. I went with diesel and don't regret it at all. I tow up to 7 times a year and whatever direction I go there's a mountain range so the diesel excels there. And that exhaust brake! It's a game changer.
Maintenance costs? It's a wash mostly. Oil change and fuel filters every 15,000 miles. Much sooner on a gas. I spend about $60-$70 to change my oil and about $70-$90 for the fuel filters when they're on sale. With the gas engine i'd be changing the oil more often. So it's not a big deal. I do it myself.
I got a 2500 but wish I went with the 3500. It's amazing just how fast payload adds up and even my little, but heavy trailer can max it out(full water tank and other gear for dry camping)

 

[Ogamiitto]

Welcome. The Hemi vs Cummins debate....

thanks for the welcome! wow , i did not know i'd be stepping into a "debate" issue on my first post

......The HEMI will get around 15 driving and around 10 towing. Not great, but actually just as good as it's 1500 brother.

If you understand the HEMI has to turn to get its power, you won't miss anything about the diesel.

I always say, if you are towing under 13000, enjoy towing at the speed limit and never in a hurry, will be daily driving more than towing, and live in an area with few steep grades, the HEMI is all you need.

If you answer no to 3 of those questions...just get the Diesel.

The 6.4l is a true HD motor, not like the 5.7 it replaces.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Thanks for joining us

what's funny is that, on a good day, 15MPG is what i'd get on my Land Cruiser. that's not towing! towing, i got an awful 8.2 MPG. watching a youtube video on the 2019 3500 dualy, get 15 MPH roundtrip on a highway was great to me. i'll be getting SRW, so , on diesel i hope to get a little better on that. it's nice to know that the HEMI would get me just about the same as my LC, plus i'd get more truck on top of that. that's fair. 10 MPG towing would be livable....but given how aerodynamic the airstream is, do you think i could get better?

now, i'd answer no to the few steep grades part. i guess that would make the Hemi more my speed...but i'm still hesitating. mainly because i don't want to be stuck needing a diesel in a year or so and be back to the situation i'm in now. but i hear you and am inclined to agree with you.

lastly, if i went with a diesel....are you saying that they are slower? that i'd have to tow at speeds under the speed limit?

 

[Gondul]

You are going to have to do some hard number crunching.
Some things to think about...

I went with the 6.4 as this is my alternate DD for foul weather, towing is occasional, no mountains nearby, and I'm not in a hurry if I am towing.
The 6.7 in a 2500 you lose a whole lot of payload, I'd only consider the 6.7 for the 3500.
Maintenance is indeed about a wash... cost is similar.
$9k premium on the cost of 6.7 over the 6.4.
You need to include the cost of DEF in operating costs.
Additional cost of diesel over gas (at least in my area) which doesn't make us for the slight increase in mpg.
Also to consider are repair costs, diesel is much more expensive a repair than gas and not all places have diesel mechanics.

Best of luck on whatever you decide!

 

[Ogamiitto]

....Maintenance costs? It's a wash mostly. Oil change and fuel filters every 15,000 miles. Much sooner on a gas. I spend about $60-$70 to change my oil and about $70-$90 for the fuel filters when they're on sale. With the gas engine i'd be changing the oil more often. So it's not a big deal. I do it myself.
I got a 2500 but wish I went with the 3500. It's amazing just how fast payload adds up and even my little, but heavy trailer can max it out(full water tank and other gear for dry camping)

so do you change your oil yourself? would that be hard to learn for the moderately handy individual?

that's why i'm sticking with that 3500. payload. i'd like to do some drycamping at well. and knowing that i could take my generators and fuel as well is a major plus!

thanks for the input!

 

[archer75]

lastly, if i went with a diesel....are you saying that they are slower? that i'd have to tow at speeds under the speed limit?

Not at all. Slower in stop and go traffic. I can hitch up the trailer and race up the mountain no problem. But keep in mind most trailer tires are only rated to 65mph.

 

[archer75]

so do you change your oil yourself? would that be hard to learn for the moderately handy individual?

that's why i'm sticking with that 3500. payload. i'd like to do some drycamping at well. and knowing that i could take my generators and fuel as well is a major plus!

thanks for the input!

Oil change and fuel filter change is super easy. It's a pain to reach the oil filter as you go through the passenger side wheel well. But once you figure out your system it's cake. Hardest part is getting the cap off for the fuel filter under the hood. I think the hulk put the cap on it. But yeah, you could do it.

Diesel fuel here is cheaper than gas. But it does vary by area. Unloaded I get 23mpg on a full tank on the last road trip I went on and that was over a mountain. Loaded for camping the mileage varies depending on where I go. But I would say I average 11mpg.
You do add DEF periodically but it's cheap and you don't add it very often. I think I fill the tank once a year maybe. Much cheaper at the pump at a truck stop versus in the store. $20 of DEF from costco will last a year.

Again, exhaust brake. I can go down the mountain with a fully loaded bed and trailer and never have to touch the brakes. The exhaust brake holds my speed. Fully in control and not burning up my brakes. To me that's been worth the price of the diesel.

 

[Ogamiitto]

Not at all. Slower in stop and go traffic. I can hitch up the trailer and race up the mountain no problem. But keep in mind most trailer tires are only rated to 65mph.

that's why i upgraded to light truck tires for my Airstream. i don't drive crazy at all....i keep it under 70.

i would think that the immense torque of a diesel engine would make it faster in stop and go traffic.

thanks!

 

[archer75]

that's why i upgraded to light truck tires for my Airstream. i don't drive crazy at all....i keep it under 70.

i would think that the immense torque of a diesel engine would make it faster in stop and go traffic.

thanks!

Well there's some debate on using LT tires on trailers as they don't have the sidewall strength. You can get away with it with the right tires. The goodyear endurance trailer tires I think are rated up to 80mph. But that's a different thread.
I keep it at 65 when towing period. Just to keep it safer. I'm not in a rush. Best to take my time and get there safely. And there's always some idiot who's going to cut me off.

Horsepower would make it faster in stop and go traffic. The V8's from Ford and Chevy have more horsepower which gets the power to the ground quicker. Ram has an inline engine which are torquey but think of them more like a tank. Pull anything anywhere. Over about 40mph I can absolutely fly, but off the line with the turbo lag, anyone can beat me. But it's perfectly fine for city driving. My truck just isn't going to be as fast as my wifes mazda. And that's ok. It's not slow. I have no issues whatsoever keeping up with everyone else.
I guess it's hard to explain. It's fine though.

 

[DevilDodge]

lastly, if i went with a diesel....are you saying that they are slower? that i'd have to tow at speeds under the speed limit?

Question was already answered. But, I will give this.

Stop light drags the HEMI will beat the Cummins, but that isn't why we buy trucks.

What i meant was, up to speed limits under normal driving conditions, they will tow very similar. Over 65 MPH (which i feel is unsafe) the Cummins will be more useful.

Going up a grade at the speed limit, the HEMI will have to turn, and the Cummins just lugs along, But towing will be similar.

The Cummins will be more useful if you feel the need to pass.

If you are towing longer distances often, the Diesel will be a cheaper cost. You tow short and rarely, the Diesel may actually cost more to operate.

I had a 2013 Cummins. I miss the exhaust brake. Mileage was nice, but usually a wash. I no longer tow highways and do not feel the need to pass on grades, so the Cummins was overkill for me, but at the time the 5.7 HEMI wasn't comparable...the 6.4l is.

And being a FAN of Mopar V8s, the Cummins always seemed like it was broke, especially driving my whisper quite V10 back to back. It was odd to hear engine noise but no exhaust rumble.

Good luck with your choice.

 

[Westfield]

If you’re only towing 7,300 lbs 8-10 times per year I would certainly go with the hemi. My tow capacity is >16,000 lbs. The hemi has plenty of excess capacity to pull an airstream, and it does that without a regen system or turbo or any other complexity adding, Al Gore pleasing systems.

I have a 2019 hemi mega cab and my brother has a 2019 HO diesel mega cab. Having driven both, the hemi has more giddyup and is much better for daily driving. Obviously the 1,000ft/lbs is rad, but I’d argue not necessary unless you're pulling serious tonnage. Most of us aren't doing that. Having driven both a significant number of miles, I can say the lag of the diesel is annoying in daily driving.

The HO has a crazy tow capacity, but since the payload is actually less than mine I doubt he’ll ever get to his full tow capacity without exceeding his payload. Especially in the RV world where tongue weights can exceed 20-25% of trailer weight. I understand your airstream isn’t at this high of a tongue weight but most 5th wheels are.

I get about 12 mpgs daily driving. Most of my miles are from a commute with lots of traffic lights. If I was doing more highway miles I think I could get 15 mpgs.

The last thing I'll add is to make sure you stick with the 3500. The 2500 payload capacity is lame, and my 3500 ride quality is completely acceptable for daily driving.

 

[Gondul]

The last thing I'll add is to make sure you stick with the 3500. The 2500 payload capacity is lame, and my 3500 ride quality is completely acceptable for daily driving.

Yep.. payload on a 2500 with the the 6.7 is pretty damned low. Now on the 6.4, it is pretty decent depending on the trim level, I think @hutchman has a Tradesman and is around 3300# or so if I'm not mistaken... I have a Limited and am at 2900#.

 

[hutchman]

Yep, I think mine is 3307# on the sticker. Of course, mine is also a "strpper" model. The only options it has are PW, PDL, PM, tilt, A.C., Sat Radio, 4 WD, running boards, and a factory brake controller. You know 30 years ago, this would have been a loaded truck!

 

[Deleted member 80]

30 years ago it would have probably been <$20K, too! When I bought my '87 F-250 XLT it was @$18.5K, and I distinctly remember my hand trembling as I wrote the check out, thinking man I gotta be crazy spending this kinda money on a damn truck! LOL

 

[Ogamiitto]

You are going to have to do some hard number crunching.
Some things to think about...

I went with the 6.4 as this is my alternate DD for foul weather, towing is occasional, no mountains nearby, and I'm not in a hurry if I am towing.
The 6.7 in a 2500 you lose a whole lot of payload, I'd only consider the 6.7 for the 3500.
Maintenance is indeed about a wash... cost is similar.
$9k premium on the cost of 6.7 over the 6.4.
You need to include the cost of DEF in operating costs.
Additional cost of diesel over gas (at least in my area) which doesn't make us for the slight increase in mpg.
Also to consider are repair costs, diesel is much more expensive a repair than gas and not all places have diesel mechanics.

Best of luck on whatever you decide!

numbers i have been crunching since i've started considering this move to a truck i thought it would be simpler than this! as a gas owner, i appreciate your input here. thanks!
i do believe i remember something you may have said in another thread. that the choice between gas an diesel was easier if you were on either end of the spectrum in terms of the load you were hauling and your location. it's the gray area in the middle....us drivers have the harder choice....and now i know it!

the payload was the main driver on me making this move to a truck. and the payload is something i understand better now. that's why i won't consider a 2500 anymore. regardless of engine choice. it's a 3500 mega cab all the way for me! at least i got that figured out.

about mechanic costs. i figure if i took care of a diesel engine, it should be trouble free for at least a 100k mikes, right? are there other problems out there with the reliability of these diesel engines i should know about?

 

[Ogamiitto]

Oil change and fuel filter change is super easy. It's a pain to reach the oil filter as you go through the passenger side wheel well. But once you figure out your system it's cake. Hardest part is getting the cap off for the fuel filter under the hood. I think the hulk put the cap on it. But yeah, you could do it.

Diesel fuel here is cheaper than gas. But it does vary by area. Unloaded I get 23mpg on a full tank on the last road trip I went on and that was over a mountain. Loaded for camping the mileage varies depending on where I go. But I would say I average 11mpg.
You do add DEF periodically but it's cheap and you don't add it very often. I think I fill the tank once a year maybe. Much cheaper at the pump at a truck stop versus in the store. $20 of DEF from costco will last a year.

Again, exhaust brake. I can go down the mountain with a fully loaded bed and trailer and never have to touch the brakes. The exhaust brake holds my speed. Fully in control and not burning up my brakes. To me that's been worth the price of the diesel.

it's nice to know that simple maintenance like that is easy to do. that helps a lot. out here in the LA county area, it's a cost difference that's negligible. at least as far as i have started noticing. 23 MPG sounds great. i'd be happy to be around that number. same with 11mpg towing...hell, i can live with 10! i'm hoping that the aerodynamic nature of the airstream would help in that respect.

it may seem silly to all of you, but i never heard of an exhaust brake before until i started looking into trucks. while i still don't know exactly what it is or how to use it, the fact that there is something that exists that makes towing a lot easier is great in my book. and made me feel a lot better making this move to a truck. i figure an engine brake is something only a diesel engine has? is there something comparable on the Hemi?

 

[Ogamiitto]

.......What i meant was, up to speed limits under normal driving conditions, they will tow very similar. Over 65 MPH (which i feel is unsafe) the Cummins will be more useful.

Going up a grade at the speed limit, the HEMI will have to turn, and the Cummins just lugs along, But towing will be similar.

The Cummins will be more useful if you feel the need to pass.

If you are towing longer distances often, the Diesel will be a cheaper cost. You tow short and rarely, the Diesel may actually cost more to operate.

I had a 2013 Cummins. I miss the exhaust brake. Mileage was nice, but usually a wash. I no longer tow highways and do not feel the need to pass on grades, so the Cummins was overkill for me, but at the time the 5.7 HEMI wasn't comparable...the 6.4l is.

And being a FAN of Mopar V8s, the Cummins always seemed like it was broke, especially driving my whisper quite V10 back to back. It was odd to hear engine noise but no exhaust rumble.

Good luck with your choice.

while i admit being a little heavy on the foot as a driver. when I'm towing, i'm a different person. maybe because i'm relatively new at it. but i tend to live by the advice a lot of season RVers give newbs ....and that's to take your time. so, i lve by that and it's worked out well. however, having gone through the Grapevine now a few times, i'll admit, i wouldn't mind having access to that extra power if i needed it to get out of a jam. so, knowing that i'm towing about 7-8000 lbs max...does the Hemi have the ability to do that easily going up a grade? meaning, does the 3500 Hemi, pulling that light a load, and with it's torque numbers, pull as easy as a diesel in that situation?

thanks for sharing your experience and expertise.

 

[Ogamiitto]

If you’re only towing 7,300 lbs 8-10 times per year I would certainly go with the hemi. My tow capacity is >16,000 lbs. The hemi has plenty of excess capacity to pull an airstream, and it does that without a regen system or turbo or any other complexity adding, Al Gore pleasing systems. .....

thanks, i really value what you have to say, given that i'd be getting a 3500 mega cab too. so, i'll pose the same question to you....knowing that i'm towing about 7-8000 lbs max...does the Hemi have the ability to do that easily going up a grade? meaning, does the 3500 Hemi, pulling that light a load, and with it's torque numbers, pull as easy as a diesel in that situation?

......I have a 2019 hemi mega cab and my brother has a 2019 HO diesel mega cab. Having driven both, the hemi has more giddyup and is much better for daily driving. Obviously the 1,000ft/lbs is rad, but I’d argue not necessary unless you're pulling serious tonnage. Most of us aren't doing that. Having driven both a significant number of miles, I can say the lag of the diesel is annoying in daily driving.

The HO has a crazy tow capacity, but since the payload is actually less than mine I doubt he’ll ever get to his full tow capacity without exceeding his payload. Especially in the RV world where tongue weights can exceed 20-25% of trailer weight. I understand your airstream isn’t at this high of a tongue weight but most 5th wheels are.

I get about 12 mpgs daily driving. Most of my miles are from a commute with lots of traffic lights. If I was doing more highway miles I think I could get 15 mpgs.

The last thing I'll add is to make sure you stick with the 3500. The 2500 payload capacity is lame, and my 3500 ride quality is completely acceptable for daily driving.

as i said above, without a doubt it's the 3500 all the way. so payload advice heard and taken!

the MPGs do concern me. i know it's a larger truck than my LC, but i wanted a lot more from this transition...i gotta admit. especially since it was a vehicle i liked so much. i'd get around 15 in my LC....so at least that was what i'd want driving without towing. is 12 MPG the average experience form users on this forum you think? what do you get towing?

thanks, again, for adding to the conversation.

 

[Ogamiitto]

Yep.. payload on a 2500 with the the 6.7 is pretty damned low. Now on the 6.4, it is pretty decent depending on the trim level, I think @hutchman has a Tradesman and is around 3300# or so if I'm not mistaken... I have a Limited and am at 2900#.

Yep, I think mine is 3307# on the sticker. Of course, mine is also a "strpper" model. The only options it has are PW, PDL, PM, tilt, A.C., Sat Radio, 4 WD, running boards, and a factory brake controller. You know 30 years ago, this would have been a loaded truck!

so even a loaded longhorn 3500 with the 6.4 Hemi would have a lot of it's potential payload capacity of 6600lbs?