Hey, First Time Truck Buyer Here! could use some advice....

[Zrojas]

[/QUOTE]
the MPGs do concern me. i know it's a larger truck than my LC, but i wanted a lot more from this transition...i gotta admit. especially since it was a vehicle i liked so much. i'd get around 15 in my LC....so at least that was what i'd want driving without towing. is 12 MPG the average experience form users on this forum you think? what do you get towing?

thanks, again, for adding to the conversation.
[/QUOTE]

Unless the MPGs on the 2019s are drastically different (mine is shipping to the dealer right now), my 2016 3500 6.7 gets much better mileage. Normal city driving I get 15-17mpg. Highway, not towing, I get 21-24mpg if I am driving the speed limit. If I'm "in a hurry" I get 17-19. Towing numbers sound about right.

My MPGs were pretty low (comparably) when I first bought my 2016 though, as I put miles on it, it gradually got better. Maybe that's where the current numbers are coming from.

All of that to say, I don't think you'll be disappointed with fuel mileage on the Cummins. I have no experience with the 6.4l Hemi to offer that comparison.

 

[DevilDodge]

while i admit being a little heavy on the foot as a driver. when I'm towing, i'm a different person. maybe because i'm relatively new at it. but i tend to live by the advice a lot of season RVers give newbs ....and that's to take your time. so, i lve by that and it's worked out well. however, having gone through the Grapevine now a few times, i'll admit, i wouldn't mind having access to that extra power if i needed it to get out of a jam. so, knowing that i'm towing about 7-8000 lbs max...does the Hemi have the ability to do that easily going up a grade? meaning, does the 3500 Hemi, pulling that light a load, and with it's torque numbers, pull as easy as a diesel in that situation?

thanks for sharing your experience and expertise.

I can not really answer that question...but be sure to get 4.10 gears.

 

[Deleted member 80]

while i admit being a little heavy on the foot as a driver. when I'm towing, i'm a different person. maybe because i'm relatively new at it. but i tend to live by the advice a lot of season RVers give newbs ....and that's to take your time. so, i lve by that and it's worked out well. however, having gone through the Grapevine now a few times, i'll admit, i wouldn't mind having access to that extra power if i needed it to get out of a jam. so, knowing that i'm towing about 7-8000 lbs max...does the Hemi have the ability to do that easily going up a grade? meaning, does the 3500 Hemi, pulling that light a load, and with it's torque numbers, pull as easy as a diesel in that situation?

thanks for sharing your experience and expertise.

I have pulled with both, currently have a 6.4 and am going back to a Cummins. To be brief, the 6.4 gets the job done, but it is a small-block V-8 and will need RPM to get the job done. If you get up in elevation the "wheeziness" will be noticeable. Mine has the 66RFE six speed, so the ZF eight speed will be better, but get on a grade, and be prepared to hear it at 4500-5000 RPM if you are running at 65 or so. The Cummins has cubic yards of torque and can pull in a very relaxed manner, and will not get "wheezy" at elevation. As to the exhaust brake, as someone else mentioned, it will keep you off the service brakes for the most part. The Hemi has grade braking, and it will wind to the moon trying, but with any appreciable trailer weight it won't accomplish much. You have to plan your descent a bit, and keep your speed in check while conserving your service brakes the old-school way.

 

[hutchman]

I think a 3500 CCSB 4X4 has a payload of around 4600 and a dually has around 5600.....but those numbers are from memory.

I will second the choice of 4.10s. I've had mine to 8000' and it does have a noticeable effect. The lower gears will certainly help. I've since put 35" tires on mine. They also make a noticeable difference. If I was going to order a new one today, it would ha 've 4.10s.

 

[Westfield’s Brother]

If you’re only towing 7,300 lbs 8-10 times per year I would certainly go with the hemi. My tow capacity is >16,000 lbs. The hemi has plenty of excess capacity to pull an airstream, and it does that without a regen system or turbo or any other complexity adding, Al Gore pleasing systems.

I have a 2019 hemi mega cab and my brother has a 2019 HO diesel mega cab. Having driven both, the hemi has more giddyup and is much better for daily driving. Obviously the 1,000ft/lbs is rad, but I’d argue not necessary unless you're pulling serious tonnage. Most of us aren't doing that. Having driven both a significant number of miles, I can say the lag of the diesel is annoying in daily driving.

The HO has a crazy tow capacity, but since the payload is actually less than mine I doubt he’ll ever get to his full tow capacity without exceeding his payload. Especially in the RV world where tongue weights can exceed 20-25% of trailer weight. I understand your airstream isn’t at this high of a tongue weight but most 5th wheels are.

I get about 12 mpgs daily driving. Most of my miles are from a commute with lots of traffic lights. If I was doing more highway miles I think I could get 15 mpgs.

The last thing I'll add is to make sure you stick with the 3500. The 2500 payload capacity is lame, and my 3500 ride quality is completely acceptable for daily driving.

Hola gents, Westfield’s sharper dressed brother here to set the record straight. Let me make an argument for the Cummins, as Westfield noted we have identical trucks except mine has the big boy engine. I have a trailer combo that weighs in at a very similar 7,500 lbs, and couldn’t be more pleased with the effortless power of the HO Cummins (and the Aisin btw). I think my brodunsky overstates the lag issue, I was coming from a 2018 F150 with the 5.0 and 10 speed and even my wife doesn’t find the Cummins any more difficult to drive around town. Maintenance costs are overblown, but the upfront charge is certainly a consideration. I am getting around 17.5 mpg combined at about 2000 on the odometer. Muggsy Bogues could dunk, but wasn’t it more impressive when Shaq did it? Do people REALLY want the V6 or 4 cylinder Mustangs? Nyet comrade. Last anecdote...heading up the very hilly I-81 through the Shenandoah Valley, my Cummins downshifted ZERO times from sixth as I passed sports cars uphill at speeds pushing 80mph (no trailer). That kind of reserve makes it all worth it IMO.

 

[Ogamiitto]

Hola gents, Westfield’s sharper dressed brother here to set the record straight. Let me make an argument for the Cummins, as Westfield noted we have identical trucks except mine has the big boy engine. I have a trailer combo that weighs in at a very similar 7,500 lbs, and couldn’t be more pleased with the effortless power of the HO Cummins (and the Aisin btw). I think my brodunsky overstates the lag issue, I was coming from a 2018 F150 with the 5.0 and 10 speed and even my wife doesn’t find the Cummins any more difficult to drive around town. Maintenance costs are overblown, but the upfront charge is certainly a consideration. I am getting around 17.5 mpg combined at about 2000 on the odometer. Muggsy Bogues could dunk, but wasn’t it more impressive when Shaq did it? Do people REALLY want the V6 or 4 cylinder Mustangs? Nyet comrade. Last anecdote...heading up the very hilly I-81 through the Shenandoah Valley, my Cummins downshifted ZERO times from sixth as I passed sports cars uphill at speeds pushing 80mph (no trailer). That kind of reserve makes it all worth it IMO.

thanks for joining in the discussion. how cool is it to have two different perspectives on this issue from two brothers, from two similar trucks with the different engines that we're talking about?! nice!

nice to know how that Cummins pulls so easily on a steep grade with a similar weight that i pull. i see your combined MPG is 17.5...but how about your MPG towing that load?

i'd only take a V8 on the Mustang , BTW...but....i don't think an 8 is a 9k premium on a Mustang.....or is it?

 

[Ogamiitto]

I think a 3500 CCSB 4X4 has a payload of around 4600 and a dually has around 5600.....but those numbers are from memory.......

does "CCSB" stand for crew cab short box?

......I will second the choice of 4.10s. I've had mine to 8000' and it does have a noticeable effect. The lower gears will certainly help. I've since put 35" tires on mine. They also make a noticeable difference. If I was going to order a new one today, it would ha 've 4.10s.

...but be sure to get 4.10 gears.

when working out my build sheet, i was told by the salesman that the 4.10 was only available on the dualy. also, i have to admit, i don't understand the whole gearing thing. none of you have to go out of your way to explain it to me, but how important is the 4.10 option for towing?

 

[Ogamiitto]

Unless the MPGs on the 2019s are drastically different (mine is shipping to the dealer right now), my 2016 3500 6.7 gets much better mileage. Normal city driving I get 15-17mpg. Highway, not towing, I get 21-24mpg if I am driving the speed limit. If I'm "in a hurry" I get 17-19. Towing numbers sound about right.

My MPGs were pretty low (comparably) when I first bought my 2016 though, as I put miles on it, it gradually got better. Maybe that's where the current numbers are coming from.

All of that to say, I don't think you'll be disappointed with fuel mileage on the Cummins. I have no experience with the 6.4l Hemi to offer that comparison.

thanks, those are some nice numbers. the question still is....and i'm getting closer to an answer with all of your help.... is the price of entry on that engine worth it to me.

 

[Ogamiitto]

I have pulled with both, currently have a 6.4 and am going back to a Cummins. To be brief, the 6.4 gets the job done, but it is a small-block V-8 and will need RPM to get the job done. If you get up in elevation the "wheeziness" will be noticeable. Mine has the 66RFE six speed, so the ZF eight speed will be better, but get on a grade, and be prepared to hear it at 4500-5000 RPM if you are running at 65 or so. The Cummins has cubic yards of torque and can pull in a very relaxed manner, and will not get "wheezy" at elevation. As to the exhaust brake, as someone else mentioned, it will keep you off the service brakes for the most part. The Hemi has grade braking, and it will wind to the moon trying, but with any appreciable trailer weight it won't accomplish much. You have to plan your descent a bit, and keep your speed in check while conserving your service brakes the old-school way.

that's the stuff i wanted to know...thanks for that info. that new transmission is the question, isn't it? i'm headed down to the local dealer on Monday to test drive the only 3500 they have with a Hemi. i won't be able to tow, but i'm definitely going on a nice long drive. i'll come back with my thoughts on that.

 

[hutchman]

Yes, CCSB is a crew cab short box. And your salesman is correct if you're ordering a diesel. SRW diesels are not available with 4.10 gears, but the 392 is.

As for the gear ratio, numerically higher gears are "lower" gear ratios. They improve low speed performance but cause the engine to run at higher rpms on the highway and generally will cause a decrease in fuel economy. Gas engines need lower gears for performance as their power and torque come in at higher engine speed.

Diesels make their power at low RPM due to torque. Their power is made at lower engine speed due to their high torque output at relatively low RPM. They do not need gears to get the engine into the power range.

So, a higher numerically gear ratio gives increased performance at lower vehicle speed and are known as "low" gears.

Lower numerical gears slow engine speed down for a given vehicle speed and help with higher speed performance. They are known as "high or tall" gears.

3.73 gears are higher gears than 4.10s and may result in better fuel economy. 4.10 gears are lower than 3.73s and should give better towing/low speed performance, but probably worse fuel economy on the highway.

Hope that helps some....

 

[Ogamiitto]

......Hope that helps some....

that helps a lot.

thanks!

 

[Westfield’s Brother]

thanks for joining in the discussion. how cool is it to have two different perspectives on this issue from two brothers, from two similar trucks with the different engines that we're talking about?! nice!

nice to know how that Cummins pulls so easily on a steep grade with a similar weight that i pull. i see your combined MPG is 17.5...but how about your MPG towing that load?

i'd only take a V8 on the Mustang , BTW...but....i don't think an 8 is a 9k premium on a Mustang.....or is it?

I can’t help with the towing mpg because I’ve done so little of it so far. My comment about the truck not downshifting was without trailer (although about 1000 lbs of payload). I do expect based on my past experience that it’s going to be significantly less, I would guess around 10. My father in law tows the same trailer as me with an F250 powerstroke (we both upgraded from V8 F150s after being disappointed in towing stability of the half ton). He’s had his a bit longer than me and our combined highway/city mpg is similar, and said his towing mpg is around 10. Our V8s with the 3.55 were in the 7-8 range with that trailer.

You’re right about the price difference, it’s hardly anything in a mustang. It’s a big pill to swallow for the Cummins but if you can swing it, I don’t expect you will have any regrets. Also, not sure where you are located, but my dealer in SC came in around 10% below MSRP on a factory ordered truck, so you should be able to shave at least a little off that delta.

 

[Westfield’s Brother]

that helps a lot.

thanks!

BTW, you are correct, I did confirm when I ordered mine that you can only get the 3.73 with the single rear wheels. I thought I made a mistake ane tried to change to 4.10 after I placed my order, and it turned out to be a dually-only option.

 

[Ogamiitto]

I can’t help with the towing mpg because I’ve done so little of it so far. My comment about the truck not downshifting was without trailer (although about 1000 lbs of payload). I do expect based on my past experience that it’s going to be significantly less, I would guess around 10. My father in law tows the same trailer as me with an F250 powerstroke (we both upgraded from V8 F150s after being disappointed in towing stability of the half ton). He’s had his a bit longer than me and our combined highway/city mpg is similar, and said his towing mpg is around 10. Our V8s with the 3.55 were in the 7-8 range with that trailer.

You’re right about the price difference, it’s hardly anything in a mustang. It’s a big pill to swallow for the Cummins but if you can swing it, I don’t expect you will have any regrets. Also, not sure where you are located, but my dealer in SC came in around 10% below MSRP on a factory ordered truck, so you should be able to shave at least a little off that delta.

if i could get 10MPG on average towing my airstream, i'd be fine with that. looks like the answer is pretty clear.... pay a premium now, and you'll see better numbers at the pump while having some more power to handle the grades OR have a lower monthly payment and pay more often at the pump while having a little more pep through the city and relatively flat roads. it broad strokes , that's essentially the answer....at least for me....and maybe for some of you out there.

i'll keep you all posted as to what my final decision is. i'll maybe post my build here too if you all are interested to hear.

 

[Josh42]

Something that made the difference for me, is I looked at 10 year old Ram residual values (autotrader.com, cars.com, craigslist) and the CTD's are going for well over $8k more than the HEMI's. Look it up, you will probably come to the same conclusion. This neutralized the cost portion of the equation, and I liked having the power of the CTD if and when I need it. As said earlier, don't consider 2500 with CTD, it is pointless.

 

[Ogamiitto]

Something that made the difference for me, is I looked at 10 year old Ram residual values (autotrader.com, cars.com, craigslist) and the CTD's are going for well over $8k more than the HEMI's. Look it up, you will probably come to the same conclusion. This neutralized the cost portion of the equation, and I liked having the power of the CTD if and when I need it. As said earlier, don't consider 2500 with CTD, it is pointless.

i figured as much. simply looking for the 3500 Hemi and finding only two at a large ram dealer, it was clear what was the more popular choice. although i like how you came to your conclusion better. more scientific. resale is good food for thought in this process.

thanks!

 

[DevilDodge]

Yes, i was talking about the gasser.

392 HEMI 3.73 standard 4.10 optional SRW and DRW

Cummins 3.73 standard SRW and DRW 4.10 optional DRW only.

 

[DevilDodge]

For fuel mileage comparison.

Top is my 2013 Cummins on a trip from Central Pennsylvania to Northern Ohio.

Bottom is yesterday's trip from Central Pennsylvania to Virginia Beach. 2015 Ram 6.4l 3.73 gears.

I am more than impressed with the 392 HEMI and that was without MDS as right now i have a fuel level sensor fail.

87 unleaded at 2.79 a gallon. Right now diesel is 3.09a gallon.

Figure in the 8spd, 200lb ish weight savings, and MDS...maybe 20 MPG

 

[Ogamiitto]

..........For fuel mileage comparison.

Top is my 2013 Cummins on a trip from Central Pennsylvania to Northern Ohio.

Bottom is yesterday's trip from Central Pennsylvania to Virginia Beach. 2015 Ram 6.4l 3.73 gears.

I am more than impressed with the 392 HEMI and that was without MDS as right now i have a fuel level sensor fail.

87 unleaded at 2.79 a gallon. Right now diesel is 3.09a gallon.

Figure in the 8spd, 200lb ish weight savings, and MDS...maybe 20 MPG

those are some good numbers...i'm hoping the new transmission boosts those significantly, too.

but, i'll be ordering a 3500. the body is the same but the chassis and other components are heavier than the 2500.

so the MPGs numbers wouldn't be as good, right?

 

[Jeffmc306]

hey, folks- I'm a first-time truck buyer and could use some advice. i'm coming from a 2017 Toyota Landcruiser, which i love...a lot. unfortunately, it doesn't do a great job of towing. specifically what suffers is the LC's payload capacity is zeroed out, even though it can easily tow the rig. a story I'm sure you all heard before. what i'm towing is a 25ft. airstream that weighs in at 7300lbs loaded. it has a tongue weight of 833lbs. i started looking into the Ram 3500 megacab. primarily for the payload capacity......and having the capability to handles a larger trailer if we ever choose to move up to that. i do live in the Antelope Valley in Ca. we're at a decent elevation, so if we're going south there's a significant downhill grade and if we go north...at least if we choose to take the 5 north. we're looking at going through the Grapevine. which has some very steep declines and inclines. so i thought it would be smart to go to a diesel engine as well.

Ogamiitto, you’ve done your homework! We traded up to a 27’ Airstream Globetrotter in April and ended up with a 2019 Ram 1500 after watching a video from Edmunds Automotive towing a 25’ Flying Cloud up the Grapevine with a 2019 Ram 1500! Made it look easy.

There’s another post on the HDRAMS forum about 2500 vs 1500 where I shared my towing experience from last week’s shake-down run.
I was leaning towards a ‘19 Ram 2500 6.4 gas but after last week I think the Cummins is the safe way to go as we’re heading to the Colorado Rockies in August.

Here’s the link to the other post: https://hdrams.com/forum/index.php?threads/2500-or-1500.462/#post-4529

Keep us informed of your decision!