Hemi or Cummins cheaper option breakdown

[Thisnthat]

I think you just proved that the resale angle is false with your own statement. If a new Hemi truck is 6-10k cheaper than a Cummins then seeing used ones 6-10k cheaper means you’re effectively getting the exact same price in the end.

Leaving emotions out of it.

Seeing used Hemi trucks for $6-10k cheaper than similar diesel trucks is the exact reason resale value has to be considered. How many people seriously buy a brand new truck and then keep it until it's no longer usable?

Any gas vs diesel discussion always revolves around how many miles a diesel owner must keep the truck until they "breakeven" with the similar gas truck (most discussions - similar to the video referenced - leave out resale value)

The fuel/maintenance cost per mile for the diesel is cheaper than a hemi. The maintenance costs for both will vary (dealer costs vs shade tree costs, filter change intervals, etc) but ultimately there is a point where the fuel and maintenance savings of the diesel over the hemi equal the additional upfront cost of the diesel.

What is that mileage threshold? 150k - 200k - 450k? As they say - your mileage may vary.

Data analysis: each mile a diesel owner puts on their truck, the operating costs for that mile are less to drive than if they were driving a hemi, but the diesel costs more

Real life: when someone sells their diesel at the 100k mile mark for the same $9-10k more than what they could've bought a hemi, that's not the only factor to consider....how much did they save in operating costs over a hemi to get to that 100k mile mark? $3k-4k...$8k?

The more you tow with the diesel the quicker the savings add up.


Fast forward to 10:20 on this video...yeah I know its GM, but it's the same discussion...and yes, they leave out the resale value as well...ha

 

[Brutal_HO]

FYI, Hemis are cool. Thought I'd get that out of the way.

But also don't forget that currently in the '23 ordering guide, you cannot get a 2500/3500 CC Hemi in the upper trims (Longhorn & Limited). Maybe you can with a Mega, but that could be debatable later on.
So Stellantis may be making that decision for you.

That proves Diesel is best right there. Even Stellantis doesn't want the gasser.

 

[ClawSS]

That proves Diesel is best right there. Even Stellantis doesn't want the gasser.

I might say that they are money hungry and figure if you'll buy the fluff of the top trim, then they'll make you pay for the diesel too.
The hemi in the work-horse trims will fill up the fleet orders. Better/Worse - Richer/Poorer. Stellantis still gets the money.

 

[ClawSS]

Man you are really letting that get to you lol… you keep bringing it up

Yeah, kinda.

 

[gimmie11s]

Someone should be super cool and put a PW suspension under their dually so I can see a dually flex. I volunteer @gimmie11s and @Crusty old shellback for the donor vehicles as this would be purely for my entertainment.

Hahaha!! I got a kick out of this.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I don't think a few are understanding the resale value retention of the Cummins.

Across the board, the diesel retains 100% (or more) of it's initial cost while the rest of the truck (and a hemi) depreciate in value.

I looked at used prices for trucks under 150K and the Diesel brings AT LEAST $10-$14K (yes $14K) or more over the price of a hemi truck even for trucks as far back as 2001. I saw several with similar mileage and the diesel was $20K more. If there's over 100K on the truck, the difference is staggering. My 04.5 HO Cummins was $5,425. My truck was priced around $10K more than similar gas trucks and sold in days.

IOW a clapped out 2001 CTD still brings stupid money, even before the vid came along.

 

[jetrinka]

I don't think a few are understanding the resale value retention of the Cummins.

Across the board, the diesel retains 100% (or more) of it's initial cost while the rest of the truck (and a hemi) depreciate in value.

I looked at used prices for trucks under 150K and the Diesel brings AT LEAST $10-$14K (yes $14K) or more over the price of a hemi truck even for trucks as far back as 2001. I saw several with similar mileage and the diesel was $20K more. If there's over 100K on the truck, the difference is staggering. My 04.5 HO Cummins was $5,425. My truck was priced around $10K more than similar gas trucks and sold in days.

IOW a clapped out 2001 CTD still brings stupid money, even before the vid came along.

You're not wrong. IIRC I got 21k for my 01 2500 CTD with around 180k on the clock and a nice pumpkin sized dent in the drivers rear of the bed. Comparable gas trucks were much less in price and that was about a year and a half ago. The truck did have some nice upgrades like an HX35, RV 40 over sticks, 4" banks exhaust and some gauges but nothing crazy. No lift or oversized tires. I do miss that truck sometimes.

 

[Surgdoc4]

Such an interesting thread... I just purchased my first diesel and before anyone says anything, no I don't NEED a diesel. I don't tow/haul much of anything. However, after having a Gladiator for over a year, then a TRX then a TRX Sandblast edition, I knew I had to be in a truck. The TRXs are incredible trucks, comfortable, versatile, and a blast to drive but 8.2 MPG daily is just tough to swallow. After having a Sandblast for a month, 100k sticker, and 8 mpg, I bought my 22 2500 Mega Cab, dropped my debt and my MPG is 17.2 as of this am, with 350 miles on the truck. So yes, the Hemi might be less expensive than the Cummins when you factor the two but when I compare it to my previous vehicle, I'm ahead by a lot. The other thing these things never really take into consideration is the resale value where diesel will destroy a Hemi, I know cause I was shipping the used market before striking the deal on my new 22. If they ever put the new 5th Gen cab on the 2500s, I MAY consider a PowerWagon as it's more of a truck for me, but the extra room of the Mega cab makes life with two small kids a lot easier.

Your mpg will get better. My 2021 2500 got 22 -23 as long as I kept it 70 or less. That was with 10k on it. Above 70 mpg drops quite a bit.

 

[kevin588127]

I don't think a few are understanding the resale value retention of the Cummins.

Across the board, the diesel retains 100% (or more) of it's initial cost while the rest of the truck (and a hemi) depreciate in value.

I looked at used prices for trucks under 150K and the Diesel brings AT LEAST $10-$14K (yes $14K) or more over the price of a hemi truck even for trucks as far back as 2001. I saw several with similar mileage and the diesel was $20K more. If there's over 100K on the truck, the difference is staggering. My 04.5 HO Cummins was $5,425. My truck was priced around $10K more than similar gas trucks and sold in days.

IOW a clapped out 2001 CTD still brings stupid money, even before the vid came along.

You aren't wrong but future value is highly speculative. Around me, you can't give a 6.0 ford away if it hasn't had extensive "bulletproofing" done. Meanwhile the pre emissions stuff is gold. I would say that it is safe to assume that your late model, low mileage diesel will retain it's value in the near future. With all the EPA garbage on these new trucks, it is a crap shoot to know what they will be worth in 10 years. People are getting wise to the fact that these trucks could become big money pits and surely that will affect the used prices on them.

 

[gimmie11s]

You're not wrong. IIRC I got 21k for my 01 2500 CTD with around 180k on the clock and a nice pumpkin sized dent in the drivers rear of the bed. Comparable gas trucks were much less in price and that was about a year and a half ago. The truck did have some nice upgrades like an HX35, RV 40 over sticks, 4" banks exhaust and some gauges but nothing crazy. No lift or oversized tires. I do miss that truck sometimes.

Sounds exactly like my '99. Same mileage and mods, although I built a hybrid hx35/40 for it and she runs GOOD. Oh.. and my dented bed happens to be on the passenger side haha

Ill probably never sell that truck.

 

[techman]

I see it two ways....you option the diesel because your circumstances require the capability or you just want one (emotional).

Would checking the Hemi option have worked for me and my needs, yep. I've always had HD gassers and this time around I just wanted a diesel.

Buying a truck based on the hope of better resale is a little bizarre.

 

[gimmie11s]

You aren't wrong but future value is highly speculative. Around me, you can't give a 6.0 ford away if it hasn't had extensive "bulletproofing" done. Meanwhile the pre emissions stuff is gold. I would say that it is safe to assume that your late model, low mileage diesel will retain it's value in the near future. With all the EPA garbage on these new trucks, it is a crap shoot to know what they will be worth in 10 years. People are getting wise to the fact that these trucks could become big money pits and surely that will affect the used prices on them.

Has the emissions equipment disproportionally affected 07-18 diesel trucks some of which are now 15-16 years old?

I think we have the data to definitively understand used diesel values crush and will continue to crush their gas counterparts. There really isn't much debate here. Is what it is and should be considered when you are trying to decide which engine to buy when buying new.

 

[gimmie11s]

Buying a truck based on the hope of better resale is a little bizarre.

Not if your trucks are a fleet and the ROI turns in to 100's of thousands of dollars when it's time to update said fleet with new trucks.

 

[jetrinka]

Sounds exactly like my '99. Same mileage and mods, although I built a hybrid hx35/40 for it and she runs GOOD. Oh.. and my dented bed happens to be on the passenger side haha

Ill probably never sell that truck.

Sounds like a sweet truck! I never did tune mine - at least with the HX and only 40 RV injectors the only time it would belch any smoke was WOT from a stop or roll. Once the turbo spooled it was clean. I couldn't see adding more fuel if it didn't have additional air to back it up - plus I didn't have a FASS or Airdog on it - just the MOPAR in tank lift pump upgrade which doesn't flow enough for big power anyway. EGT's were always safe even on a long hard pull up a hill so I was happy.

 

[techman]

Not if your trucks are a fleet and the ROI turns in to 100's of thousands of dollars when it's time to update said fleet with new trucks.

Point taken. I figured the vast majority of owners on this forum are private single truck owners not company fleet managers.

 

[gimmie11s]

Point taken. I figured the vast majority of owners on this forum are private single truck owners not company fleet managers.

Totally agree. And the other counter point would be cheaper maintenance on a fleet of gas trucks would negate any higher residual value of the diesel when trading up.

Like others have said.. buy what makes you happy. As long as it's not an EV. Haha

 

[jetrinka]

buy what makes you happy. As long as it's not an EV. Haha

HERE HERE!!!!

 

[techman]

I will say, after having my diesel for just a week and a measly 300 miles it is AWESOME!!

To quote Ferris Bueller, "if you have the means I highly suggest picking one up....it is so choice!"

 

[kevin588127]

Has the emissions equipment disproportionally affected 07-18 diesel trucks some of which are now 15-16 years old?

I think we have the data to definitively understand used diesel values crush and will continue to crush their gas counterparts. There really isn't much debate here. Is what it is and should be considered when you are trying to decide which engine to buy when buying new.

Times they are a changing. My buddy had a 2014 ram 3500. Nothing but problems with the def system so he deleted it. This led to other issues which are irrelevant to this conversation. Local mega dealer wouldn't take it on trade. He got lucky and they found him a buyer, basically they back doored it. Anyway, none of us know the future especially with this whole green movement. Buying for the resale is speculative.

 

[JohnandDonna]

FYI, Hemis are cool. Thought I'd get that out of the way.

But also don't forget that currently in the '23 ordering guide, you cannot get a 2500/3500 CC Hemi in the upper trims (Longhorn & Limited). Maybe you can with a Mega, but that could be debatable later on.
So Stellantis may be making that decision for you.

Just talked with my dealer and he said that the 6.4 Hemi is standard across all trim levels of the 2500 and 3500. That does not change for 2023.