HELP - Lots of power but start switch is dead (or now crazy)

[LateToTheParty]

Well luck is not on my side. Fuse 51 tests OK. That would be too simple. We have a winter storm warning for Denver now and all 4 windows are down.. I will need to do something about that sooner than later. Looks like next is get it towed somehow.

Not sure what part of Denver you're in, but for what it's worth I had mine dropped at Autonation in Littleton as they were the only ones in the Southwest portion of the metro area who said they'd even be able to look at it in under 2 weeks (this was back in July). All others I called told me it'd be at least 2 weeks to even run a diagnostic.

 

[CdnHO]

Since it appears that several circuits are involved, any chance it could be one of the large fuses. They were not that complicated when I was in the trade but would there be a fuse for the body controller module. Just a wild guess.

 

[bbritt18]

Any chance it the security system could have shutdown something? I used to have a 300 zx if the security system tripped you had to use the key and lock and unlock the doors to reset it.

 

[RBarrett]

Well I violated the law of the single variable. Since I was doing so much trial and error things I put a battery charger on it last night. Then since it looks like a trip to the dealership is in the cards I pulled out my Navics module. Since this truck is still under warranty and work in the dash seems likely, it s better no questions come up over that. So this AM I got in with both keys and saw the mileage roll out in the display and the off led light on the start switch.. Pushed the start button into preheat it went and then started. It started two more times and now it is as before. I now have it in a better place and the windows closed. So much for fuse ideas. I spoke to to dealerships and yes they are backed up. Arapahoe Autonation had there shop foreman killed over the weekend and his two sons that are techs there are out indefinitely. A very unfortunate thing for sure. They said mid December maybe. I have an appointment at Larry Miller for November 4. I will call Littleton as well. Thanks for the tip. I obviously have some sort of intermittent issue going on here. I'm back on the battery charger and will try some more later. When I was in behind the 12 inch I tried to get to the connector on the start button. I couldn't really get my hand in from there. It didn't have a red wire that I could see. Looked like purple and a lighter color but not sure. Maybe I need to go in from the bottom. I have a bunch of time between now and the 4th. If I can get it started once more I can get my camper off and get it lined up for a tow truck.

 

[Roman2179]

I wouldn't rule out the Naviks as the source of the issue. It's connected to the CAN BUS in the truck and if it was losing its mind then it has the potential of bringing down the CAN network and makeling everything unresponsive since the none of the modules would be getting the correct messages. Having said that, I would expect the issue to go away after a battery pull as that would reset the module. I guess try putting the Naviks back in and see if the issue reappears.

 

[RBarrett]

Well like I said I got three starts after pulling out the Naviks and running overnight on the battery charger. Then it went back to the no response no start condition. I have chased this now for most of the day. Sometimes it starts, other times it is a more or less dead dash except for push brake to start in the driver display. I can tell it will start if I open the door and see the driver display light up with Larimer logo and gauges light up, center stack logo comes on etc. If all I see is that push brake to start I know it isn't going to do anything. I don't think the Naviks has anything to do with this it has been in the truck for 25K miles. It is on my workbench now and I still have the issue. At least my campers off and the truck is in my garage where I can work on it

 

[Roman2179]

Do you have a scan tool available? I'd be curious to see what codes are stored in the modules.

Something like AlfaOBD or JScan would be great.

 

[flan]

So I asked in post 2 but didn’t get too clear of a response, are you still running the original batteries?

 

[CaptainMike]

So I asked in post 2 but didn’t get too clear of a response, are you still running the original batteries?

That's my suspicion as well. The OP said they were charged, but that doesn't mean charged for a load or load tested. Replacing batteries is the first thing, more or less, I would do in this situation.

 

[jsalbre]

Yeah, I’d bet if you put a voltmeter on there it’s way low.

 

[CdnHO]

So I asked in post 2 but didn’t get too clear of a response, are you still running the original batteries?

Looks like the batteries are four years old. Time to replace them anyway since they are marginal when new.

 

[Wanderlust073]

Wow that’s horrible news about the Arapahoe shop - been going there for years.

 

[RBarrett]

At some point yesterday I started thinking about the batteries as well. What seems weird about that is when the starter turns over there is no sign of the voltage drop that usually accompanies starting on a week battery. Now that the truck is in the garage I will investigate this further. These are the original batteries. It does strike me that it would be very unusual that the overall truck systems would prevent even allowing a start attempt when there is obviously enough capacity for running boards and headlights. If the batteries are at fault when it repeats the no start condition than just a traditional jump start should work to immediately wake it up to see the key is present and turn the dash systems on. I'm skeptical but you never know. I will try this while measuring battery voltage as my next steps.

 

[Roman2179]

I have noticed on my truck that the OEM power running boards stop working first if my battery is dying. I was working on something and just let the battery run too low and the first thing that stopped working were the steps. Either way, it may be worth while to pull them and get them charged up and load tested.

Do you have AlfaOBD or JScan? Pulling the codes from all the modules would definitely in trying to identify a potential cause. Most of the major modules would have a stored low voltage code if that was the issue. I would also want to see if you have any CAN BUS off performance codes.

 

[flan]

These modern vehicles do all kinds of crazy things with “low” voltage. I say low like that because it seems less than 12.5 renders these trucks pretty inoperable. Most with voltage low enough to have their trucks not start at least get a solid click from their starter, it does not seem that’s your case.

 

[RBarrett]

Yes to the "solid click" when attempting to start with low voltage. I don't experience that at all which is what I would expect. My running boards have zipped out and back as always throughout this whole thing. I pulled the battery charger off this AM and after a couple minutes got 13.0 volts. Opened door and the whole dash lit up. I didn't have the key and that's what is said when I tried to start it. All seems normal so far. I don't have a normal scan tool. I have something called VAG Com which runs on a laptop with a special cable which I have our Audis. It is somewhat of a pain to use and I don't know if it would do much more than standard DTCs on the Ram. On the Audis it allows very extensive queries and tests for the various modules. I just don't think it will here. I sure have been wondering what a good scanner would reveal in this case though. I'm going to let it basically sit and watch what battery voltage does and see if when I get in with the FOB if my dash is alive or I just get the "push brake to start" display.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Looks like the batteries are four years old. Time to replace them anyway since they are marginal when new.

Not true for everyone my 19 the batteries still test perfect i checked them 2 weeks ago when i was also checking my plow getting it ready for winter. some have had battery troubles but not everyone it seems that the trucks that sit have the issues

 

[RBarrett]

It seems my batteries are just fine as well. I made 8 tips to the garage over the course of the day to check the trucks behavior and measure the battery voltage. First 4 trips the voltage before openning the door voltages were 12.8 to 13.0 volts. The trucks behavior was just as you would expect. Responded to the key, went into preheat, then started immediately. I shut it down right away and measured the voltages again. All were 12.8 volts or higher. The 5th time there was 12.8 volts before openning the door. When I got in everything seemed as usual except the tach and speedo surrounds weren't lit. I had no response to the start button. No response to touching the FOB to it either. So I open the door and get out. Close the door and get 2 flashes from the emergency flashers, all the lights come on, the whole dash and 12 inch light up and the truck goes into preheat. While I'm standing outside with the FOB in my pocket. It did not go into start after the preheat. So I got back in and when I closed the door a message came up saying vehicle was not in park. (shifter was not moved all day) I shut it off the normal way with the switch. I immediately pushed the start switch again and get nothing. So I get out again and when I close the door it starts the the whole operation over again. This time when I get back in it didn't say it was'not in park so I started it. After turning the engine off it seemed to respond to the key and start button just fine. The last three checks were just like the first four. This behavior is not what I had yesterday but is just as baffling. My only conclusion after this is that it's not the battery and something else is pretty wacked out. Of course it will be fine when I go in for service. Intermittent gremlins are the worst kind.

 

[Metternacht]

Try and video the behavior to show the techs in case it decides to be shy at the dealer. Just a thought.

 

[RBarrett]

That's a really good idea. Now I just need it to screw up for me again.