Gas 2500 spongy brakes and other issues

[troverman]

First off…I bought a 2019 RAM 3500 crew cab Tradesman Level 2 4x4 Cummins HO new in 2019. Two weeks ago I bought a 2022 RAM 2500 crew cab Tradesman Level 2 4x4 Hemi and the biggest thing I noticed was the super spongy brakes on the Hemi. They do stop the truck, but it feels like air in the system and lots of pedal travel. The Cummins truck isn’t like this. Heck, my 2005 Ford F-350 Powerstroke has a vastly more confidence inspiring pedal. What I notice is that the diesel trucks use a hydro boost system and this truck uses a vacuum booster. Any thoughts on this?

Otherwise, besides the squeaky / squealy cold start sound of the Hemi, I’m very impressed with the powertrain. Excellent smooth transmission (which I could say that about the Aisin) and powerful responsive gas engine. Won’t tow as well, but empty around town it’s great.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

First off…I bought a 2019 RAM 3500 crew cab Tradesman Level 2 4x4 Cummins HO new in 2019. Two weeks ago I bought a 2022 RAM 2500 crew cab Tradesman Level 2 4x4 Hemi and the biggest thing I noticed was the super spongy brakes on the Hemi. They do stop the truck, but it feels like air in the system and lots of pedal travel. The Cummins truck isn’t like this. Heck, my 2005 Ford F-350 Powerstroke has a vastly more confidence inspiring pedal. What I notice is that the diesel trucks use a hydro boost system and this truck uses a vacuum booster. Any thoughts on this?

Otherwise, besides the squeaky / squealy cold start sound of the Hemi, I’m very impressed with the powertrain. Excellent smooth transmission (which I could say that about the Aisin) and powerful responsive gas engine. Won’t tow as well, but empty around town it’s great.

Hydroboost will always feel firm compared to vacuum boost but there may be a touch of air in your brakes you have to bleed out

 

[troverman]

You’re telling me I should have to bleed the brakes on a brand new truck?

My friend has a nearly new Mustang GT with vacuum boost brakes…pedal is firm as a rock, great brakes. I don’t think the type of the booster is necessarily the problem. Just wondering if others felt the pedal was spongy as well, and if there is anything that can be done about it.

 

[whitexc]

I thought the brakes were pretty nice on my truck at first but I have to agree....after 8k miles they are blah. There seems to be a lot of pedal travel and yes, they are soft.

Just did a complete brake kit on my Subaru a few thousand miles ago. Powerstop Z26 with stainless flex lines and new fluid. That pedal is rock hard and the car stops on a dime. Night and day difference.

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[H3LZSN1P3R]

You’re telling me I should have to bleed the brakes on a brand new truck?

My friend has a nearly new Mustang GT with vacuum boost brakes…pedal is firm as a rock, great brakes. I don’t think the type of the booster is necessarily the problem. Just wondering if others felt the pedal was spongy as well, and if there is anything that can be done about it.

No not saying you should have to but it may need to be done…. Also you cant compare a light car to an 8000lbs truck. The brakes should not be spongy but i was just giving insite to your comparison.

 

[RAM_Dad]

It’s the normal feel for these trucks. I came from a F150 and the brakes certainly feel different.

I don’t actually mind it, I haven’t had any problems or scares with the spongier brakes.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Soft Brakes - weak brakes - sponge brakes 2021 3500 - merged threads

I now have 600miles on my new 2021 3500 HO Long Bed. In general I'm extremely happy BUT the brakes seem a bit soft? i.e. have to push the peddle approx. halfway to start feeling any action. The brakes in my previous 2008 3500 SO Short bed seemed more aggressive. Is this normal for the new...

hdrams.com

 

[troverman]

A lot of people seemed fine with the answer “it’s a heavy truck, so the brakes feel differently than a lighter vehicle.” What nonsense! Brake feel has nothing to do with weight, but rather design. As I mentioned, my old 2005 F350 has nice firm pedal feel, and being a crew cab diesel dually it outweighs my new 2500 gas truck. So clearly a firm pedal and weight are not mutually exclusive. Although the brakes do stop ok, the mushy pedal is simply not as good in my opinion and Stella should correct this. Otherwise, great truck.

 

[whitexc]

Nice pedal in my 2nd gen Cummins truck too. She was heavy and likely had mostly original brake fluid when sold a year ago.

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[Crusty old shellback]

My alingment was out from the factory. So why not residual air in the brake lines?
Some guys have issues with bed alingment on the chassis.
It's not like they are building a custom one off truck. They are pushing them out as fast as they can.
Little too much fun the night before and the line workers work may not be up to par.

 

[John Jensen]

My Ford F350s had what everyone is calling "spongy brakes". Both of my Rams have the same. Thay all have been able to stop well, however, it's hard to accept or get used to the feeling. I too do not like it.

 

[troverman]

The truck stops and the feel is probably exactly the same way as all the other new gas 2500's on the dealer lot. I guess I'll have to live with it, but I've owned 6 new Super Duty trucks and 3 new RAM HD trucks since 2012. Right away driving it off the lot my thought was "wow the brakes are spongy." It's my first vacuum-assist RAM HD though, so maybe that's the difference.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

The truck stops and the feel is probably exactly the same way as all the other new gas 2500's on the dealer lot. I guess I'll have to live with it, but I've owned 6 new Super Duty trucks and 3 new RAM HD trucks since 2012. Right away driving it off the lot my thought was "wow the brakes are spongy." It's my first vacuum-assist RAM HD though, so maybe that's the difference.

that is the difference the vacuum assist makes a big difference in pedal feel remember with vacuum assist its 20psi of vacuum providing assistance when you deal with hydro boost its 2000psi of assistance so in a car vacuum is fine but with a heavy truck vacuum has a lot to be desired

 

[troverman]

that is the difference the vacuum assist makes a big difference in pedal feel remember with vacuum assist its 20psi of vacuum providing assistance when you deal with hydro boost its 2000psi of assistance so in a car vacuum is fine but with a heavy truck vacuum has a lot to be desired

I think we're confusing things again..."pedal feel" doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how well the truck stops. So as you imply the 2000psi of pressure from a hydroboost unit is somehow superior to vacuum assist, bear in mind 18 wheelers use about 120psi to stop far more than a puny pickup. The diesel pickup trucks frequently use hydroboost not necessarily because it provides better stopping power but rather because diesel engines don't produce manifold vacuum like a gas engine. Its cheaper to use the existing power steering pump to produce pressure for braking assist rather than installing a separate engine-driven vacuum pump capable of supplying adequate vacuum to a brake booster. The gas trucks stop as quick or quicker than the diesel trucks, even with their 'inferior' brake booster system.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I think we're confusing things again..."pedal feel" doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how well the truck stops. So as you imply the 2000psi of pressure from a hydroboost unit is somehow superior to vacuum assist, bear in mind 18 wheelers use about 120psi to stop far more than a puny pickup. The diesel pickup trucks frequently use hydroboost not necessarily because it provides better stopping power but rather because diesel engines don't produce manifold vacuum like a gas engine. Its cheaper to use the existing power steering pump to produce pressure for braking assist rather than installing a separate engine-driven vacuum pump capable of supplying adequate vacuum to a brake booster. The gas trucks stop as quick or quicker than the diesel trucks, even with their 'inferior' brake booster system.

Air in an air brake system is used to release the brakes not apply them otherwise the parking brake would not work once the tanks leaked down befor maxi pots yes some had air actuated pots and the brakes were awful thats why they have not used them in quite a few decades…. And even when diesels had vacuum pumps they still ran a hydroboost system…

 

[troverman]

But 120 psi is all it takes to hold the brakes from applying...
Some diesel pickups today still do have vacuum pumps. Ford Super Duty still uses vacuum-operated 4WD hubs, so it needs a vacuum pump. But that pump is small and not adequate to supply braking pressure.

 

[whitexc]

Regardless....some or most of these Rams have a crappy pedal. That's the point here right?

I don't care what system it uses or it's actual output power to stop the vehicle....it doesn't feel good under the foot. It isn't confidence enspiring.

My car weighs just over 4k so it isn't exactly tiny and light, albeit lighter than the truck, with 20 year old tech and that pedal is great. Just my 2 pennies worth.

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[H3LZSN1P3R]

argue all you want it is not going to change the facts i have been working with these systems for a couple decades this has been my experience for every brand… i will leave it at that…

 

[jetrinka]

H3LZSN1P3R is not wrong. The force provided by the 16-20 inches of vacuum to the booster is multiplied by its large internal diaphragm but still does a poor job of consistent assist compared to a hydroboost unit especially in a truck that weighs over 7k pounds empty.

If the pedal "pumps up" consistently well with the engine off/no assist then its likely just how it is. If it remains spongey or gets spongey between pumps then I agree with the others that it may just need to be bled a bit. Its an easy process to just crack each bleeder one at a time and let it gravity bleed while looking for air bubbles. An ABS bleed may be warranted to rule everything else out but I doubt it.

My Hemi's brake pedal feels great. Just as confident as my old 01 Cummins with hydroboost. Perhaps your brake pads just haven't bedded in yet and you aren't getting that nice initial bite that comes with worn in brakes?

 

[whitexc]

I don't think we are all "arguing" the same thing. There are smaller and larger vehicles that have a better pedal. Period.

You also aren't the only one that has worked on vehicles, hydraulics, pipelines, etc for years. Just saying. That isn't going to change my feeling for the brakes on my pretty expensive truck. That's all.

This written just after I opened the ABS recall notice....which has nothing to do with the topic but.....


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