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Gas 2500 spongy brakes and other issues

Excuse me Mr. Troverman... This all has been explained on this site before, the spongy pedal feel is all based upon several high-end computer programs that can and will save your life. Anti-lock brake system, Stability Control System. Add into the mix Adaptive cruise control with accident avoidance technology using front facing radar. All have to work and play well in conjunction with your braking system. Just the anti lock system itself on a dry flat road modulate each wheel of your truck over 50 times a SECONDS in a panic stop. Lets add in your ECM (Engine Control Module), TCM (Transmission Control Module), BCM (Body Control Module) And the Electronic Can bus system all work indirectly to make sure that you can be as safe as possible and stop in a emergency situation in the safest and shortest possible distance. So in closing, the engineers who designed all the systems to keep us safe at Ram I'm sure won't sleep well tonight knowing your very upset that your brake pedal is too spongy compared the out dated technology of your 17 year old 2005 F-350. But I will tell you that I will sleep well knowing that my 2021 Ram Cummings will out stop your 17 year old Ford @ 60mph by at least 3 truck length. And you can take that to the bank. Thank you sir for your time.
 
It's Cummins. Thanks for the explanation though. It makes sense, sort of.

Just test drove a new Explorer with all these bells and whistles and that too had a nice firm pedal. I actually had to apologize for tapping them a bit much at first.

I will say again that I agree with this being a pointless argument. We are complaining about the feel. Not that the brakes won't do the job they were meant to do. I guess maybe it's an opinion thing?

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
 
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SmokeShow, thanks for the condescending nonsense. The truck stops. I can push the pedal all the way to the floor if I keep adding pressure. That doesn’t seem normal to me, but thankfully you’ve explained it all to me.
 
Yes, thank you it is Cummins. And I do agree, it is an opinion thing as to the feel of the pedal. My Ram 2500 has a very soft pedal and it did take me awhile to get used to it. And because of that I find myself stopping a little sooner than normal. And I wonder if that might have part of the plan all along. My Mega Cab comes in at just under 8,000 lbs. w/31 gals. fuel in the tank. My neighbor has a new Ram 1500 Hemi 4x4 and it has very firm pedal... It just might be a soft pedal thing for 2500-3500 big boys ??
 
The 2019 2500 6.4 I bought used from a dealer had this issue. Very noticeable coming from a 2018 F-150 with upgraded pads, new front calipers and rotors, and fresh fluid - pedal on that was right at the top and very solid feeling. I also don't agree that squishiness or creep under normal braking (without getting into the ABS) is normal. Pressure bleeding (including cycling the ABS twice with AlphaOBD, any dealer or decent shop can do this) made a BIG difference. Pedal travel is still on the long side but it's much firmer.
 
As we've covered in the referenced thread, this is all perception of the feel of the pedal.

I can only guess some are just too used to the over boosted, over sensitive systems in other brands.

Drive with the Adaptive Cruise (if optioned) set and the pedal will be tighter than a well digger's ass. As I understand it the way Jimmy explained, the ABS "pre-fills" brake pressure under command from the DASM so the pads are closer to the rotor to respond faster. So IOW, this is a lot of extra software (nanny) control thrown into the mix.

FWIW, I checked a few sources and the RAM 2500 stops 10 ft shorter than the Ford F250 60-0, diesel or gas.


hdrams.com

Soft Brakes - weak brakes - sponge brakes 2021 3500 - merged threads

I now have 600miles on my new 2021 3500 HO Long Bed. In general I'm extremely happy BUT the brakes seem a bit soft? i.e. have to push the peddle approx. halfway to start feeling any action. The brakes in my previous 2008 3500 SO Short bed seemed more aggressive. Is this normal for the new...
hdrams.com hdrams.com
 
Thanks Brutal_HO... I'm guessing your referencing the stopping distance of "late models" of Ram and Ford? But in any case 10 ft. is 10 ft. However, to try and compare the braking (distance or pedal feel) of 2022 Ram 2500 to that of a 14 or 17 year truck, or for that matter of a caged air brake system of a tractor trailer makes just makes no sense to me at all. So Yes Design " Is Always" based upon the current technology that needs to be applied.
troverman said:
A lot of people seemed fine with the answer “it’s a heavy truck, so the brakes feel differently than a lighter vehicle.” What nonsense! Brake feel has nothing to do with weight, but rather design. As I mentioned, my old 2005 F350 has nice firm pedal feel, and being a crew cab diesel dually it outweighs my new 2500 gas truck. So clearly a firm pedal and weight are not mutually exclusive. Although the brakes do stop ok, the mushy pedal is simply not as good in my opinion and Stella should correct this. Otherwise, great truck.
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SmokeShowJoe said:
Thanks Brutal_HO... I'm guessing your referencing the stopping distance of "late models" of Ram and Ford? But in any case 10 ft. is 10 ft. However, to try and compare the braking (distance or pedal feel) of 2022 Ram 2500 to that of a 14 or 17 year truck, or for that matter of a caged air brake system of a tractor trailer makes just makes no sense to me at all. So Yes Design " Is Always" based upon the current technology that needs to be applied.
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@SmokeShowJoe, these technologies for brake power assist haven't changed. Hydroboost and vacuum boost use the same basic design to function today as they did 20 years ago. The point was simply that the old F-350 I have has a much more confident and firm brake pedal feel. Does it stop quicker? I doubt it, its a heavier truck. The brake rotors may be smaller, I don't know. The basic setup (vented discs front and rear, dual piston sliding calipers front and rear)...is the same. Keep in mind I have a 2019 RAM 3500 exact same configuration as my 2022 RAM 2500, just that the 3500 is a diesel with hydroboost and the brakes "feel" significantly better. Both trucks are Tradesman trim levels, no emergency braking intervention or anything like that. Just ABS and traction control and stability control.

All that said, I made my first tow with the new 2500 gasser yesterday, about 110 miles round trip, in the mountains. The truck stops OK, but with a lot of pedal travel. I had an enclosed trailer behind me, 20' x 102" wide, loaded to about 8k lbs. I set the trailer brakes to heavy electric and messed with the gain a fair amount to make the truck and trailer brake smoothly together. The RAM with the Cummins is much more confident coming down hills due to the excellent exhaust brake. The 8 speed and Hemi do their best but in the end the engine is screaming at about 5000 RPM and still not maintaining speed. On the other hand, I was really impressed with the Hemi's strong power and ultra-smooth ZF8 speed. The transmission is just as good in Tow/Haul as it is when driving empty. The Hemi can hold a fairly steep grade for an extended period with the cruise set to 55mph and the transmission in 5th gear and 2800RPMs. It's no diesel, but I got an indicated 11mpg on this run, which isn't much worse than the Cummins would get doing the same thing, except I'd be paying a dollar per gallon more for diesel.
 
I have noticed that the pedal in my 21 Cummins feels spongier than my 17 Cummins. It hasn't changed at all in 13,000 miles so I don't think there is a problem, just how it is I suppose.
 
Brakes in my 21 Hemi 2500 are great, no issues.

My dads 2015 Cummins 2500 had the worst spongiest brakes I’ve ever felt. Could have been the extra weight of the Cummins too.
 
After this discussion, drove the truck yesterday(not my daily) and sitting at a light you can push through the assist and make the pedal hit the floor. The brakes work and stop the truck but that just doesn't seem right and isn't like any other vehicle in the fleet. I may say something when I take it in for the recall. I don't feel I should have to bleed brakes on a new 8k mile vehicle that cost a fair amount.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
 
@whitexc, you and I are on the same page. My truck doesn't even have 600 miles on it and it does the same thing. Yes the brakes work and stop, but it feels incredibly mushy. This truck is not my daily either, but it has the worst brake feel of any truck in my small fleet. The gas trucks have the same brake components as the diesel trucks...meaning very large, heavy duty brakes. It just seems the booster isn't calibrated to work super well. I should try a panic stop some time.
 
troverman said:
@whitexc, you and I are on the same page. My truck doesn't even have 600 miles on it and it does the same thing. Yes the brakes work and stop, but it feels incredibly mushy. This truck is not my daily either, but it has the worst brake feel of any truck in my small fleet. The gas trucks have the same brake components as the diesel trucks...meaning very large, heavy duty brakes. It just seems the booster isn't calibrated to work super well. I should try a panic stop some time.
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I like to practice panic stops in all my vehicles just so I know how they will react. I have a 2020 power wagon and run two sets of tires stock on stock wheels and Toyo 35's on AEV wheels. definitely a difference in how they brake. I was a motorcop for many years and we practiced braking at the beginning of every shift, every day. Most people do not practice panic stops until of course they have to panic stop..
 
Mine feel great, nothing spongy or mushy about them. Two things will cause spongy/mushy brakes, air and worn out rubber lines that can expand when pressurized.
 
These brakes are terrible. I attempted a panic stop, and indeed the truck will engage ABS on dry pavement…but at the very bottom of the pedal travel. Nothing but mush most of the way down. I’ll ask the dealer, but I can already predict what the result will be…”it’s normal.”
 
Something is wrong. I tried another panic stop and could not get any abs engagement and only a moderate stop despite mashing the pedal. I have dropped the truck off at the dealer.
 
Just picked up my 22 3500 DRW night and day difference from the 2500 2019 I just sold Cummins motors on both. I know the 3500 has larger brakes, I think that’s about it.
 
Cseybert said:
Just picked up my 22 3500 DRW night and day difference from the 2500 2019 I just sold Cummins motors on both. I know the 3500 has larger brakes, I think that’s about it.
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Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the brakes are the same between a 3500 and a 2500. Diesels have hydroboost and gas models have vacuum assist. That’s about it. Dually trucks have a little more weight but more rubber on the road which likely helps them stop quicker.
 
troverman said:
Something is wrong. I tried another panic stop and could not get any abs engagement and only a moderate stop despite mashing the pedal. I have dropped the truck off at the dealer.
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Keep us updated. I plan to add it to the list of to-dos with the recall which may be delayed a while if I do it with the next oil change.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
 
So far the update from the sickly sweet female service writer is “two technicians drove it and what you are feeling is normal…”

I asked for another opinion and to make a panic stop. Allegedly they are doing that.
 
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