CP4 to CP-ISB21S3 (revised CP3) change for 2021 6.7L Diesel Trucks -- Merged Threads

[bigcitymike]

That lobe is so wide that it most likely will not rotate considering the aggressiveness of the lobe and centerline of the pump. Issue is the design relying on diesel fuel to create the lubricating barrier between the lobe and small diameter roller. I estimate around 5,000 lbf spread on a very small contact area which will result on almost pure metal to metal contact. The forces are no were near the same on a camshaft/roller design which uses a much thicker viscosity oil allowing a protective film between roller (with larger diameter) and lobe. Particles flowing around the inside of that case also contribute to the roller not spinning or sliding on the lobe. Again - piss poor design IMO.

The lifter/roller clocks or rotates, which is when the whole thing goes kaboom.

Explained here

 

[NDanecker]

The lifter/roller clocks or rotates, which is when the whole thing goes kaboom.

Explained here

I posted that video so I've seen it.

IMO, it rotates after the roller is worn down or already damaged/not rotating. I don't believe it is causing the failure but is a symptom of pump failure.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I think you guys are talking about two different "rotates."

One, the piston cam roller rotating in it's pocket.

Two, the piston rotating in it's bore.

 

[Rob122]

Two points regarding the previous posts:
1. Regardless of the cost of any recall, RAM is making a purchase in goodwill and customer loyalty should they decide on a recall. I'm sure a portion of these trucks went to first time owners such as myself, that came from other brands. Knowing what I know now I would have just found a low mileage 2018 and went that direction. I bought the truck to replace a 10 year old toyota that I was beginning to worry about towing all over the east coast with the family on board. It lived outdoors, got worked to death and got some pretty awful mileage, but it never broke and left me stranded. I love the cummins for my uses and honestly at this point I'd really never want another gas powered truck. A 2 month loss of the truck and a stranded family go a long way towards steering away from the brand in the future. An updated pump would alleviate that issue.
2. I spoke with a diesel shop here yesterday and inquired about the cost to do the CP3 kit if I went that direction. His advice was run the stock pump until my warranty was up. Be vigilant about the filters, run some additive with a lubricant and try to buy at high volume dealers. Stay away from anything with alcohol in it like anti gel. He said he feels it strips the lubricant from the fuel and these pumps need all they can get.
I hate that I love this truck and now this sits in the back of my head.

 

[agtcovert]

Two points regarding the previous posts:
1. Regardless of the cost of any recall, RAM is making a purchase in goodwill and customer loyalty should they decide on a recall. I'm sure a portion of these trucks went to first time owners such as myself, that came from other brands. Knowing what I know now I would have just found a low mileage 2018 and went that direction. I bought the truck to replace a 10 year old toyota that I was beginning to worry about towing all over the east coast with the family on board. It lived outdoors, got worked to death and got some pretty awful mileage, but it never broke and left me stranded. I love the cummins for my uses and honestly at this point I'd really never want another gas powered truck. A 2 month loss of the truck and a stranded family go a long way towards steering away from the brand in the future. An updated pump would alleviate that issue.
2. I spoke with a diesel shop here yesterday and inquired about the cost to do the CP3 kit if I went that direction. His advice was run the stock pump until my warranty was up. Be vigilant about the filters, run some additive with a lubricant and try to buy at high volume dealers. Stay away from anything with alcohol in it like anti gel. He said he feels it strips the lubricant from the fuel and these pumps need all they can get.
I hate that I love this truck and now this sits in the back of my head.

I'm with you. I came from Ford (half ton). My needs are moderate -- I towed enough (tractor + attachments and I'm dabbling with old tractor restoration now) and we have plans for a bumper pull TT in the next year or two that I wanted to move up. I love having a diesel. I don't care if diesel costs more, I don't care if I'm not towing every day. I can afford it and I love how it rides, sounds, and frankly, pulls like there's not a damn thing behind it versus when my F150 was bouncing between gears pulling the same load (until I locked the gears out).

I SINCERELY hope, given they've made a CP3 work on a 2021 they realize that a retrofit will save them money in the long run and do a lot -- at least for those of us that are enthusiasts -- to retain us as long term customers. Cummins just has that reputation (and sound!) -- part of why I bought it. I don't stress over it, at least while I'm under warranty, but it sucks knowing it could grenade -- and I'd likely not have the truck for months.

So yeah, I hope they come up with something there that works. Or I'll probably be looking at a swap out of warranty too. I'd rather spend the $3k or so and hedge against a 15k+ repair.

 

[str_8_shot]

Better chance of getting the mythical corona virus than blowing a cp4.... you still have a hell of alot more truck than any toyota!

Funny, I would've rather had COVID, wayyyy shorter recovery time! Here is one of those mythical work orders...when its your truck, I promise you'll see things totally different.

 

[NDanecker]

Amusing part is the chances of your CP4 blowing up or die from COVID are probably the same.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Funny, I would've rather had COVID, wayyyy shorter recovery time! Here is one of those mythical work orders...when its your truck, I promise you'll see things totally different.

Meh lemon law will be in my favor here

 

[str_8_shot]

Meh lemon law will be in my favor here

Please tell me more... I've been in a lawsuit with FCA since September with no end in sight. And "lemon law" means absolutely nothing when you're walking... but hey its not happened to you so no big deal, right?

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Please tell me more... I've been in a lawsuit with FCA since September with no end in sight. And "lemon law" means absolutely nothing when you're walking... but hey its not happened to you so no big deal, right?

Here in canada its pretty easy to get it resolved its not called “lemon law” like in the states but its so much easier to deal with.... even if it did happen to me id be fine... did your truck not get fixed?

 

[str_8_shot]

Here in canada its pretty easy to get it resolved its not called “lemon law” like in the states but its so much easier to deal with.... even if it did happen to me id be fine... did your truck not get fixed?

It did get repaired (after almost 5 months) with another CP4. The repair in November, did little to help me from July - November when I had no vehicle. Its great that you'd be fine, I'm happy for you... many others wouldn't. My case could've easily been handled by simply offering a loaner, renting me a vehicle or trading me out of the truck... when they knew the parts were delayed almost 4 months (all options that were refused several times). I honestly hope you never experience anything like this, but its a helpless feeling.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

It did get repaired (after almost 5 months) with another CP4. The repair in November, did little to help me from July - November when I had no vehicle. Its great that you'd be fine, I'm happy for you... many others wouldn't. My case could've easily been handled by simply offering a loaner, renting me a vehicle or trading me out of the truck... when they knew the parts were delayed almost 4 months (all options that were refused several times). I honestly hope you never experience anything like this, but its a helpless feeling.

Thats brutal

 

[str_8_shot]

Thats brutal

No doubt...

I'm far from a Ram basher, I owned a 2011 Ram 2500, my 2019...and I would purchase another Ram 2500 tomorrow. I just wish FCA showed the same loyalty to customers, us owners show them!

 

[kobra]

Here in canada its pretty easy to get it resolved its not called “lemon law” like in the states but its so much easier to deal with.... even if it did happen to me id be fine... did your truck not get fixed?

Is there a process to get it resolved that is like the lemon law? Fortunately I've not had to deal with that but curious in case.
Thanks!

B

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

No doubt...

I'm far from a Ram basher, I owned a 2011 Ram 2500, my 2019...and I would purchase another Ram 2500 tomorrow. I just wish FCA showed the same loyalty to customers, us owners show them!


Also, thanks for you service, I was in Tikrit, Iraq 03-04 and the wife was their in 2010. cheers!

I dont know if the service message was directed at me aswell but i am not military although i have many family members who were including my dad who served 22 years

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Is there a process to get it resolved that is like the lemon law? Fortunately I've not had to deal with that but curious in case.
Thanks!

B

Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan (CAMVAP) the more you know the better protected you are... i have had a few friends who i have helped get them in to a new vehicle with little issue

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

We have vehicle arbitration here in the states, but we're an active duty military family and the Military Lending Act bands us from participationing in arbitration. We had to go over it with the finance guy during the purchase process...

"The Military Lending Act, as amended, imposes a 36% rate cap, bans mandatory arbitration, and imposes other restrictions, and requires disclosures for “consumer credit” (as defined by rule issued by the Department of Defense (DoD)) extended to service members and their dependents. The FTC enforces the Act as to most non-depository institutions, and is part of the interagency group with whom the DoD is required to consult at least every two years."

In Canada the military is not exempt my one friend who is an active service member had his 2014 jeep jku replaced after multiple transmission and clutch issues

 

[str_8_shot]

I'm not 100% sure it applies here, we've received different answers from every dealership. Nobody has taking it to court for adjudication, i've read where several auto groups were lobbying to change the Military Lending Act, its really vague.

But, a FCA Mod to change us CP4 guys to CP3, would be much appreciated. lol

 

[NDanecker]

I would have lost my **** if that happened to me. I don't like lawyers or the one to shout lawsuit but damn that is a raw deal especially if its your work vehicle that puts bread on the table.

Bet you'd get a loaner if you were some youtube vlogger though.

 

[mra400ex]

@kobra That is basically it. I don't think the failure rate is remotely close to 10% and from my back of the numbers math it's likely 10% or more for this to be justified. Luckily the FCA bean counters have all this info so it's even easier for them to make an informed decision. I'll reiterate what I've stated before in that I'll be beyond surprised if FCA doesn't issue a TSB/recall on the CP4. If they don't I will be swapping in an S&S CP3 and calling it a day. I also won't be buying another FCA product in the future if that is how they treat the situation but everyone gets to make up their own mind.

My thoughts exactly. I may go for a while and be careful, but if we do not get a recall I will likely do the S&S Cp3 also. ANd will be sure to spread my thoughts on what FCA does in the end. Praises or condemnation of the brand depending on how they handle it. At 64 years old I planned for this to be my last truck purchase.