Automatic Regen too often

[mbarber84]

Seems like eventually someone is going to have an epiphany (O-SH*T moment.)

I hope so.

However I think part of the problem with this particular malfunction is that there are so many pathways to failure, it’s hard to isolate one specific flaw across the board.

There have been a rash of trucks with DPF’s that failed internally. Some trucks needed the newer style MAF. Some trucks have faulty EGR valves….and on and on….

The more they over-think the plumbing, the easier it is to stop-up the drain.

 

[DougB]

I feel their pain.

Sounds like me and any customer's network team. You know what usually gets it fixed? Getting EVERYBODY on a webex and figuring it out together. Each side can show the other what they're doing.

FWIW, It's them 99% of the time, or at the very least miscommunication.

Can only hope this is a high enough priority issue that they’re doing this.

I love it when our customers have an issue and we don’t have their product in a lab to recreate the issue so we have to t/s on site. If that’s happening for Ram, they can easily reach out to users on forums to get guinea pig trucks to help solve this.

Agree with @mbarber84, this is complicated and there’s no single smoking gun, unfortunately. At least not yet.

 

[mbarber84]

Can only hope this is a high enough priority issue that they’re doing this.

I love it when our customers have an issue and we don’t have their product in a lab to recreate the issue so we have to t/s on site. If that’s happening for Ram, they can easily reach out to users on forums to get guinea pig trucks to help solve this.

Agree with @mbarber84, this is complicated and there’s no single smoking gun, unfortunately. At least not yet.

There are, as far as I’m concerned, three major issues plaguing this current generation of engines right now.

1. Premature hydraulic lifter failure
2. Grid heater bolt failure
3. Frequent Regeneration

Listed in order of importance as far as my opinion goes. Two of the three can lead to immediate and irreparable engine damage instantaneously. The regen issue is also of serious concern due to the increase in fuel dilution it can cause in the engine oil.

There are few ways this company could accelerate loss of consumer confidence in their product faster than allowing these three serious issues to go unchecked and uncorrected. Longterm dependability and durability have been the hallmark that made the 5.9 / 6.7 Cummins engine famous and popular. That popularity and dependability is what drove Dodge / RAM to the top tiers of the HD pickup market. They piggybacked on the success of one particular engine and it paid serious dividends. If these current issues continue to go unchecked, it’s going to be a serious black eye for their reputation, both in their trucks and the service they provide to support said trucks. There have always been some flaws to overcome (killer dowel pin, 53 blocks, thin valve seats, etc.) however it seems more lately, the issues become more grave and the fixes less readily available. I don’t recall valvetrain failure to have ever been more prevalent than it is now with this current generation engine. All so that someone, somewhere, could mark down one less decibel of noise from an already quiet engine.

Is anyone out there?
We know you’re watching,
but are you listening?

 

[mbarber84]

Adding info as of 12/22/23. The MAF sensor stamped with ABMBV is part number 68444077AA and is the one produced in China.

 

[Firebird]

It is so frustrating seeing how these new emissions have ruined the best diesel on the market.

 

[scdo]

Using OBDLink, I have found that my EGT is around 600 degrees (F) at the DPF inlet and outlet. When in active regen, that increased to about 1,000.

Can anyone else confirm their temps?… I’m specially interested in how this compares to vehicles without the issue.


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[DougB]

Using OBDLink, I have found that my EGT is around 600 degrees (F) at the DPF inlet and outlet. When in active regen, that increased to about 1,000.

Can anyone else confirm their temps?… I’m specially interested in how this compares to vehicles without the issue.


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I see 400-600 in city driving. 550-650 on the highway and I’ll get some passive regen usually then, too. In active regen 950-1150 whether city or highway.

Just had my shortest regen interval yet. 108 miles, 4.5 engine hours. Sheesh.

This was after cleaning the funky MAP sensor, checking air intake tubes for leaks, and letting out some oil to get the level at middle of the safe zone. Hoping to see benefits of those in coming regens. Fingers crossed.

 

[Blackpowder]

Using OBDLink, I have found that my EGT is around 600 degrees (F) at the DPF inlet and outlet. When in active regen, that increased to about 1,000.

Can anyone else confirm their temps?… I’m specially interested in how this compares to vehicles without the issue.


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Unloaded mine generally runs in the 425-600F range depending on speed and hills. Active regens reach 1000-1050F.

 

[AH64ID]

I monitor EGT1 and EGT3 all the time.

When not in an active regen and steady state load the highest EGT is 1, and the coldest is 5. EGT1 has to be above 650° to be able to heat the DPF to the point of beginning passive regen. I’ve seen passive regen occur with EGT3 as low as 600°, but it’s slow at that temp.

Generally I don’t see above 600° on EGT3 until I’m below 18mpg steady state, that can happen at 45 or 75 depending on load, road, and ambient conditions.

In an active regen EGT 2 is usually the hottest, followed by 3,4,5. 1 is the coolest. Active regen will push EGT3 to 1000-1050°. EGT1 does rise during active regen but not much as it’s just from a more open exhaust, lower rail pressure, and retarded timing. Most of the heat for active regen comes from the DOC that is measured at EGT2.

Just had my shortest regen interval yet. 108 miles, 4.5 engine hours. Sheesh.

Very rarely does a 24 mph average mean any passive regen, so I can’t say I’m surprised at all by that regen interval.

 

[scdo]

Thank you all for the EGT numbers… similar to my observations. I should have mentioned the 600 is when at highway speed.

On another note, I just checked the oil and found that I’m about an inch above the safe zone. That can’t be good… dealer agreed to sneak me in this afternoon to correct.

Ram needs to figure this one out asap.

 

[mbarber84]

Thank you all for the EGT numbers… similar to my observations. I should have mentioned the 600 is when at highway speed.

On another note, I just checked the oil and found that I’m about an inch above the safe zone. That can’t be good… dealer agreed to sneak me in this afternoon to correct.

Ram needs to figure this one out asap.

The more often the truck regenerates, the more fuel gets into your engine oil and raises your oil level. Fuel dilution in the engine oil is not good, and rapidly decreases the oils ability to adequately lubricate parts.

 

[AH64ID]

Thank you all for the EGT numbers… similar to my observations. I should have mentioned the 600 is when at highway speed.

On another note, I just checked the oil and found that I’m about an inch above the safe zone. That can’t be good… dealer agreed to sneak me in this afternoon to correct.

Ram needs to figure this one out asap.

That’s about 2 quarts overfull.

When was your last oil change?

How are you checking it?

What does your oil life indicator say?

 

[scdo]

That’s about 2 quarts overfull.

When was your last oil change?

How are you checking it?

What does your oil life indicator say?

The dealer changed it maybe 1,000 miles ago due to dilution. I’m just checking with the dip stick. It’s possible they over-filled last time.


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[AH64ID]

The dealer changed it maybe 1,000 miles ago due to dilution. I’m just checking with the dip stick. It’s possible they over-filled last time.


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How long is it sitting after running?

Did you check it right after they changed it?

How many regens since it was changed?

 

[downsc123]

The dealer changed it maybe 1,000 miles ago due to dilution. I’m just checking with the dip stick. It’s possible they over-filled last time.


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From all my research, the time to check oil level is 30 minutes after you shut it down - if you check it immediately after shut down and it is normal in band, 30 minutes later you will likely be over filled.

 

[scdo]

How long is it sitting after running?

Did you check it right after they changed it?

How many regens since it was changed?

I checked it immediately after I stopped the engine and then again at several intervals up to maybe 30 mins out.

I never did check it myself when they changed it last time and the service manager confirmed they did not manually check… they just fill by quantity.

I do not know how many regens since change but I’d estimate in the ballpark of 10.

 

[AH64ID]

“Up to maybe 30 minutes” is insufficient settle time. Multiple checks in such a short timeframe will also make it appear higher than it is because you’re costing the dipstick tube with oil every time you pull it out.

Let it sit overnight on a level surface and check again. After an overnight sit you shouldn’t even have to pull/wipe/insert/pull/check, just pull and check.

To be honest, I think your issue is user error.

 

[scdo]

Maybe you are right… it’s already at the dealer and they’re checking it.


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[scdo]

“Up to maybe 30 minutes” is insufficient settle time. Multiple checks in such a short timeframe will also make it appear higher than it is because you’re costing the dipstick tube with oil every time you pull it out.

Let it sit overnight on a level surface and check again. After an overnight sit you shouldn’t even have to pull/wipe/insert/pull/check, just pull and check.

To be honest, I think your issue is user error.

Manual says to wait 5 minutes. Not user error.

 

[AH64ID]

Manual says to wait 5 minutes. Not user error.

I haven’t pulled my manual out, but that’s not 6.7 info… which is obvious to me because our dipsticks take 2 quarts to go from add to full.

You need to let it sit longer, and only check it once in a time frame or you get false high readings.

EDIT: I posted that and recalled this coming up before. When Ram merged the diesel supplement into the owners manual they made some mistakes, this is one of them. Here is how it should read for a 6.7.

So, unintentional user error based on manual error.



I’ll bet the dealership doesn’t wait the 30 minutes. Hopefully they don’t take too much oil out.

They are also supposed to let it drain for 30 minutes and I doubt that happens.