CP4 to CP-ISB21S3 (revised CP3) change for 2021 6.7L Diesel Trucks -- Merged Threads

[Johnq]

Awesome, thank you.

Interesting to see what they come up with. I'm sure it won't be a CP3 replacement like we all want. After having 15 Ford vehicles, this is my first non-Ford and I'm hoping I didn't make a huge $81,000 mistake. I'm loving the truck so I want it to work out.

Not to frighten you any more but I have a 2020 3500 that threw a rod on flat ground without any warning. It has 33,000 miles and had 5,000 miles on the oil change with 74% life. I was told by a fellow driver the same happened to his friends ram at 20,000 miles. He called him and he was then told a new dealership in Florida had 7 in the shop with the same issue. I’m still waiting for a call from someone in the warranty department To return my call. The person I spoke with when I called said she wasn’t able to assist me and I was told it had to be escalated. She said someone would call me in 48 hours. The clock is ticking. Like many of you this is my first ram. I went with it because of the Cummins engine. Had I known about this I wouldn’t have. It will not be a great experience driving this truck cross country knowing this could happen at any moment. Can’t pay the bills if the truck is in the shop. I definitely don’t like what I’ve been told so far. Wasn’t even able to get a courtesy vehicle while this is resolved. I will not be buying another one when this is resolved if I’m not treated any better. I will keep you guys updated through the process.

 

[NordicNevs]

Not to frighten you any more but I have a 2020 3500 that threw a rod on flat ground without any warning. It has 33,000 miles and had 5,000 miles on the oil change with 74% life. I was told by a fellow driver the same happened to his friends ram at 20,000 miles. He called him and he was then told a new dealership in Florida had 7 in the shop with the same issue. I’m still waiting for a call from someone in the warranty department To return my call. The person I spoke with when I called said she wasn’t able to assist me and I was told it had to be escalated. She said someone would call me in 48 hours. The clock is ticking. Like many of you this is my first ram. I went with it because of the Cummins engine. Had I known about this I wouldn’t have. It will not be a great experience driving this truck cross country knowing this could happen at any moment. Can’t pay the bills if the truck is in the shop. I definitely don’t like what I’ve been told so far. Wasn’t even able to get a courtesy vehicle while this is resolved. I will not be buying another one when this is resolved if I’m not treated any better. I will keep you guys updated through the process.

Wow


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[Desertduler]

Not to frighten you any more but I have a 2020 3500 that threw a rod on flat ground without any warning. It has 33,000 miles and had 5,000 miles on the oil change with 74% life. I was told by a fellow driver the same happened to his friends ram at 20,000 miles. He called him and he was then told a new dealership in Florida had 7 in the shop with the same issue. I’m still waiting for a call from someone in the warranty department To return my call. The person I spoke with when I called said she wasn’t able to assist me and I was told it had to be escalated. She said someone would call me in 48 hours. The clock is ticking. Like many of you this is my first ram. I went with it because of the Cummins engine. Had I known about this I wouldn’t have. It will not be a great experience driving this truck cross country knowing this could happen at any moment. Can’t pay the bills if the truck is in the shop. I definitely don’t like what I’ve been told so far. Wasn’t even able to get a courtesy vehicle while this is resolved. I will not be buying another one when this is resolved if I’m not treated any better. I will keep you guys updated through the process.

What are the odds of 7 trucks with thrown connecting rods at one dealership in the country? I find that very hard to believe. I have spent most of my career rebuilding engines both gasoline and diesel of many different displacements and manufactures and I just don't buy that. In order for that to be true there would have to be something specific happening at that dealership. Not to grandstand but I spent many years rebuilding engines and breaking them in on a water brake dynamometer with zero failures on my behalf.

 

[Xflight29]

One dealership with seven trucks all with thrown rods, Please.

 

[flan]

Pics or fake news.

 

[UglyViking]

I don't know guys, new member, first post is about a single dealer with 7 trucks with thrown rods. Seems legit…

 

[Xflight29]

Chevy sales men trying to get Ram people to convert.

 

[Johnq]

What are the odds of 7 trucks with thrown connecting rods at one dealership in the country? I find that very hard to believe. I have spent most of my career rebuilding engines both gasoline and diesel of many different displacements and manufactures and I just don't buy that. In order for that to be true there would have to be something specific happening at that dealership. Not to grandstand but I spent many years rebuilding engines and breaking them in on a water brake dynamometer with zero failures on my behalf.

Hard to believe of course. But with my truck sitting idle in a shop 700 miles away from home proves to me it could be possible. I only post my experience for those that are legitimately trying to this get this issue known so there could be a resolution found. I love the truck. It was performing quiet well. I even convinced others to purchase one. I’m not by any means trying to down the truck. Just using the forum to let others know there is a serious issue with the engine I have that might have gone undetected.

 

[Great White North Eh]

Building my tin foil hat as I type with one eye on the sky for falling rods!!

 

[delmoniCO]

Not to frighten you any more but I have a 2020 3500 that threw a rod on flat ground without any warning. It has 33,000 miles and had 5,000 miles on the oil change with 74% life. I was told by a fellow driver the same happened to his friends ram at 20,000 miles. He called him and he was then told a new dealership in Florida had 7 in the shop with the same issue. I’m still waiting for a call from someone in the warranty department To return my call. The person I spoke with when I called said she wasn’t able to assist me and I was told it had to be escalated. She said someone would call me in 48 hours. The clock is ticking. Like many of you this is my first ram. I went with it because of the Cummins engine. Had I known about this I wouldn’t have. It will not be a great experience driving this truck cross country knowing this could happen at any moment. Can’t pay the bills if the truck is in the shop. I definitely don’t like what I’ve been told so far. Wasn’t even able to get a courtesy vehicle while this is resolved. I will not be buying another one when this is resolved if I’m not treated any better. I will keep you guys updated through the process.

Hard to believe of course. But with my truck sitting idle in a shop 700 miles away from home proves to me it could be possible. I only post my experience for those that are legitimately trying to this get this issue known so there could be a resolution found. I love the truck. It was performing quiet well. I even convinced others to purchase one. I’m not by any means trying to down the truck. Just using the forum to let others know there is a serious issue with the engine I have that might have gone undetected.

Your truck in a shop with a thrown rod. Believable. SEVEN trucks at a SINGLE dealer - at once!?!?

 

[Desertduler]

Hard to believe of course. But with my truck sitting idle in a shop 700 miles away from home proves to me it could be possible. I only post my experience for those that are legitimately trying to this get this issue known so there could be a resolution found. I love the truck. It was performing quiet well. I even convinced others to purchase one. I’m not by any means trying to down the truck. Just using the forum to let others know there is a serious issue with the engine I have that might have gone undetected.

Prove the magnificent 7 to me and make me a believer.

 

[exiledinaz]

I specifically bought the RAM because of the Cummins. I like gas Chevy 1500s like the '82, '85 and 98. All had over 160k+ reliable miles on them. But towing an RV now, I wanted the Cummins.

The CUMMINS motor is the main reason I bought the truck. If Cummins was in a GM or Ford product, I'd buy one of those. Its main purpose in life is towing/pulling the RV.

 

[mra400ex]

After 40 years in fleet maintenance (34 at UPS) I have worked on all makes and brands. Not to doubt that any motor can have a failure. The 5th generation 6.7 has forged connection rods, which are touted as being the strongest. I am impressed with my 2020 Ram 3500 drw and amazed as I pull my D4 Cat with it. Amazing how it does not strain at all and I am not hammering the throttle to do so. Effortless to get to 60 to 65 mph. In my experience the only Cummins failures I have ever seen were on some old Diamond Rio tractors UPS had back in the day. These were the pre big cam engines and probably had 2 million miles. I can no say the same for our later package cars with the GM gas V-8s. Just hard to believe that a dealer would have 7 Rams in with thrown rods, IMHO

 

[Gadgetguru]

What are the odds of 7 trucks with thrown connecting rods at one dealership in the country? I find that very hard to believe. I have spent most of my career rebuilding engines both gasoline and diesel of many different displacements and manufactures and I just don't buy that. In order for that to be true there would have to be something specific happening at that dealership. Not to grandstand but I spent many years rebuilding engines and breaking them in on a water brake dynamometer with zero failures on my behalf.

Next to impossible. New dealership he says. Maybe someone there doesn't know diesel trucks take diesel fuel.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Hard to believe of course. But with my truck sitting idle in a shop 700 miles away from home proves to me it could be possible. I only post my experience for those that are legitimately trying to this get this issue known so there could be a resolution found. I love the truck. It was performing quiet well. I even convinced others to purchase one. I’m not by any means trying to down the truck. Just using the forum to let others know there is a serious issue with the engine I have that might have gone undetected.

Ah yes literally nothing else on the internet about this so you must be the only one who has internet access out of the 8 failures you speak of plus the 100s more that must have failed if that dealer has 7 at once the cummins must have a high failure rate..... the only ones that had a chance at failure is the 3500 ho chassis cabs from improper warm up thats from a software issue....

 

[JEI-CAN]

I have been thinking what that "service solution" could be. Just my 2 cents.

So, option 1. extended warranty. - I don't believe FCA want to go that way. Lets say warranty is extended to 10 years. Problems will then remain in discussion for 10 years and there must be affect to current 19-20 model owners if they remain with RAM in the future. So I dont believe that warranty is solution.

Option 2. Added filtration some have suggested. I think doesnt solve the big picture. Also this option must likely include some kind of extra warranty. Not very likely option either I think.

Option 3. Disaster prevention kit. Now we come bit closer to possible solution. FCA recalls all the 19-20 affected vehicles and installs prevention kit. Works so that if pump fail, no damage to fuel system. Extended warranty still possible. In this case, most vehicles will survive their life cycle, and those that dont will get new pump by warranty. This solution leaves room for that the new pump in case could be cp3. Of course, this means, there has to be cp3 conversion kit by FCA. This solution would be cheaper, but contains of course problems. Doesn't remove reliability problem and that why most owners would not be very happy. Also, if replacement pump would be cp3, it means, that they could sell for little money official cp3 conversion. They would offer for free this prevention kit and for those who would like to "upgrade" their vehicles there would be conversion kit. I still believe that changes are low for this option.

Option 4. recall with cp3 conversion. This is, of course, the only sustainable solution, and also ensures customer satisfaction. For FCA size company recall and cost is not massive. Fact is, that they will get cp3 pumps from Bosch at very low cost. Working hours per vehicle is not very big. I think changes for this option is like 80%.

Option 5. some kind of modification to pumps installed to vehicles. As I am not engineer, I have no idea if this is realistic option. Most likely not.

Option 6. Something else?? What could it be?

So, I am optimistic, they will publish recall for cp3 conversion.

 

[UglyViking]

They will not attempt another modification to the CP4 pump, they have already done a running change (late 2020 model) and that either didn't solve the problem or FCA decided there was too much risk and made the CP3 swap in 21.

Extended warranty is possible I suppose, but not plausible. Lawyers could have already drafted an extended warranty plan for 19-20 MYs, so the fact they announced but have been hush hush points more to a TSB/recall.

Disaster prevention kit is a no go. If FCA released a disaster prevention kit they would be further acknowledging the failure of the CP4 which would make it easy for end users who suffer issue to sue not only for a fix but also get a check for downtime, hurt resale of vehicle, etc.

With everything that has transpired so far, and with lawyers chomping at the bit, FCA will do the CP3 swap, I would put money on it.

 

[Epsilon Plus]

I'd be interested to know more about the new pump for educational purposes. I've been relegated to calling it the CP3.x.

I also read between the lines on THIS POST by RamCares. I see it as an indication that those who have done the aftermarket CP3 swap are not covered by warranty any longer and will not be reimbursed under recall. I also see it as active damage control as the reminder that Ram is working on a solution was brought up in a menial New Member intro post when a concern about the CP4 was raised. Possibly, this was just Katheryn being good at her job and helping/reassuring customers where she can. Alternatively, it may show that associates have been directed to start putting out fires where there is smoke eluding to reputational damage being a top concern, especially regarding recent purchasers.

The swap to the CP3.x seems viable to me due to the A/C TSB. I would posit that the A/C TSB has more overall cost associated with it than an injection pump TSB would; especially considering the collateral damage that could be caused by the original pump if left untouched. If aftermarket companies can figure out the problem with no tuning and a simple bracket swap, FCA can without breaking a sweat. I also acknowledge that FCA is in the business of making money and not handing out expensive fixes to possible problems, but as JEI-CAN mentioned, FCA is not a small Mom & Pop. Their net income in 2019 was 8 billion USD.

They can afford it.

 

[Great White North Eh]

Ya Ramecares might just be peeling on the fire but I don’t think it will put it out!

 

[ianacole]

Their net income in 2019 was 8 billion USD.

They can afford it.

What was their net profit?