Banks ran horn

[IndyRamMega]

More airflow is great, but only if it's actual airflow vs more "potential" airflow. My understanding is that your current bottleneck isn't the horn, but the turbo. So unless you're also upgrading your turbo it's not gonna make much of a difference I'd think.

The horn is after the turbo....it's a velocity vs volume thing....you have evidence or something showing it doesn't flow more than the stock horn?

 

[UglyViking]

The horn is after the turbo....it's a velocity vs volume thing....you have evidence or something showing it doesn't flow more than the stock horn?

I understand the turbo is upstream of horn. My point is that there seems to be no evidence that the turbo can outflow the stock horn.

This is just a random number example. Say the stock turbo flows 300 CFM at max boost, and the stock horn is good for 420 CFM. Even if the Banks horn is good for 900 CFM the horn isn't the bottleneck, the turbo is the bottleneck in this situation.

I don't know the exact CFM the turbo is pushing, but I'm guessing that is gonna be your primary restriction. I know that the factory turbo pumps out around 33 lbs psi, and previously at least, the intake horn was capable of around 33lbs per min on the older 6.7. I understand the point about volume vs velocity, but you're still going to have a constricted space right after the gridheater anyway, so it's not like it's doing a ton for a stock engine (again, I'd imagine).

Thats the thing though, I could be completely wrong. That said, you're the one making the claim, so it's sorta on you (or Banks) to prove that this thing adds any value in stock configuration. I think it obviously doesn't, as if there were HP numbers associated with this Banks would damn sure market that data, they are the kings of marketing so if they had easy numbers to use to sell more product they would.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I know in my 05 the boost seemed to hit a couple more psi after and started spooling at 150 rpm lower, assuming the reduced back pressure was the reasoning but i have no proof just my observations when i was data logging it back then…. That was a 5.9 but i assume the theory still stands

 

[IndyRamMega]

I understand the turbo is upstream of horn. My point is that there seems to be no evidence that the turbo can outflow the stock horn.

This is just a random number example. Say the stock turbo flows 300 CFM at max boost, and the stock horn is good for 420 CFM. Even if the Banks horn is good for 900 CFM the horn isn't the bottleneck, the turbo is the bottleneck in this situation.

I don't know the exact CFM the turbo is pushing, but I'm guessing that is gonna be your primary restriction. I know that the factory turbo pumps out around 33 lbs psi, and previously at least, the intake horn was capable of around 33lbs per min on the older 6.7. I understand the point about volume vs velocity, but you're still going to have a constricted space right after the gridheater anyway, so it's not like it's doing a ton for a stock engine (again, I'd imagine).

Thats the thing though, I could be completely wrong. That said, you're the one making the claim, so it's sorta on you (or Banks) to prove that this thing adds any value in stock configuration. I think it obviously doesn't, as if there were HP numbers associated with this Banks would damn sure market that data, they are the kings of marketing so if they had easy numbers to use to sell more product they would.

Banks already has the data....I don't need to prove anything...go read the reviews about them....buy it or don't...doesn't matter to me...I've already modded diesels to the point of madness and this one will remain mostly stock...just to try and curb my mod addiction....at least that's what I'm trying to tell myself....all the warranty warrior stuff doesnt bother me either....I have a decal on the back of my wrangler that describes me...says "I void warranties"....lol...

Just did some digging....the stock he351 flows 808-888 cfm.....the he351ve that 2019+ trucks have flow up to 950....

 

[UglyViking]

Banks already has the data....I don't need to prove anything...go read the reviews about them....buy it or don't...doesn't matter to me...I've already modded diesels to the point of madness and this one will remain mostly stock...just to try and curb my mod addiction....at least that's what I'm trying to tell myself....all the warranty warrior stuff doesnt bother me either....I have a decal on the back of my wrangler that describes me...says "I void warranties"....lol...

Just did some digging....the stock he351 flows 808-888 cfm.....the he351ve that 2019+ trucks have flow up to 950....

Do you have a link to that source? That would be pretty crazy that even the banks monster ram with grid place swap doesn't keep up with the turbo CFM (Banks claims 936 CFM). That would mean that anyone that swaps from a factory turbo or upgrades to compounds would absolutely have to have this. Pretty insane.

I don't have the desire to get into a pissing match here man. I'm not going to read into the Banks marketing material, or the youtube shills and take it as gospel. I'm just asking for the data to become better informed. Is this your source? (link) I'm learning here, so let's not measure our manhood.

I'm not claiming this horn does nothing, but I do think it's a bit suspect that there would be any claim of additional HP out of it, especially large enough numbers you can feel, without any supporting mods. That just screams insanity to me. Again, I'm 100% willing to be schooled and proven wrong here, I actively want to learn. That said, if you're gonna hold the argument you've gotta show the data. You're the one that made the claim:

Some of you should try it before you doubt it.....unless you tune it there won't necessarily be a "hp" gain but the driveability and throttle response is where this piece shines

How do you get a throttle response gain from this? If anything, I'd assume you'd lose some since the turbo is now forcing air into a larger area, which means it loses velocity, and possibly some density, thus less power. Throttle response would be gained via timing changes in tuning, or adjustments to the pedal, or more fuel, none of which this is getting, it's not even getting more air, it's getting the same amount of area over a larger area. It just doesn't make any sense to my thick head.

Again, I'm here to be proven wrong, so school me as to why it works, what it's doing, point me to some data (not Banks marketing or some youtuber saying how awesome it is).

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Do you have a link to that source? That would be pretty crazy that even the banks monster ram with grid place swap doesn't keep up with the turbo CFM (Banks claims 936 CFM). That would mean that anyone that swaps from a factory turbo or upgrades to compounds would absolutely have to have this. Pretty insane.

I don't have the desire to get into a pissing match here man. I'm not going to read into the Banks marketing material, or the youtube shills and take it as gospel. I'm just asking for the data to become better informed. Is this your source? (link) I'm learning here, so let's not measure our manhood.

I'm not claiming this horn does nothing, but I do think it's a bit suspect that there would be any claim of additional HP out of it, especially large enough numbers you can feel, without any supporting mods. That just screams insanity to me. Again, I'm 100% willing to be schooled and proven wrong here, I actively want to learn. That said, if you're gonna hold the argument you've gotta show the data. You're the one that made the claim:

How do you get a throttle response gain from this? If anything, I'd assume you'd lose some since the turbo is now forcing air into a larger area, which means it loses velocity, and possibly some density, thus less power. Throttle response would be gained via timing changes in tuning, or adjustments to the pedal, or more fuel, none of which this is getting, it's not even getting more air, it's getting the same amount of area over a larger area. It just doesn't make any sense to my thick head.

Again, I'm here to be proven wrong, so school me as to why it works, what it's doing, point me to some data (not Banks marketing or some youtuber saying how awesome it is).

Less backpressure faster/ earlier spooling on the turbo….. its the same idea with exhaust really the stock system flows enough for oem spec but aftermarket allows more flow and more HP….. its all a game on how fast you can get air in and out of the engine


This here is just a theory by more air flow(cfm) through the MAF the more the truck will allow fueling

 

[UglyViking]

Less backpressure faster/ earlier spooling on the turbo….. its the same idea with exhaust really the stock system flows enough for oem spec but aftermarket allows more flow and more HP….. its all a game on how fast you can get air in and out of the engine


This here is just a theory by more air flow(cfm) through the MAF the more the truck will allow fueling

That would make sense, but again only if the stock horn isn't capable of moving the amount of air the turbo is sending.

 

[IndyRamMega]

That would make sense, but again only if the stock horn isn't capable of moving the amount of air the turbo is sending.

Last bit of info I'm going to provide for you....I won't keep digging up the info just because you don't want to believe.... like I said before...get one or don't...I don't care....the he351 is a super hx40 turbo...here is a bit from another discussion with info pulled from holset....the stock horn does NOT flow more than the turbo is capable of.....and for clarification the banks horn only flows 5xx something cfm...the grid heater delete in combo with the banks horn is when you get the 9xx number...the stock horn flows 421 cfm....it's definitely a restriction....

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

That would make sense, but again only if the stock horn isn't capable of moving the amount of air the turbo is sending.

Look up at post 23.. i no longer have the data logging files from 15 years ago but that was my findings

 

[UglyViking]

Last bit of info I'm going to provide for you....I won't keep digging up the info just because you don't want to believe.... like I said before...get one or don't...I don't care....the he351 is a super hx40 turbo...here is a bit from another discussion with info pulled from holset....the stock horn does NOT flow more than the turbo is capable of.....and for clarification the banks horn only flows 5xx something cfm...the grid heater delete in combo with the banks horn is when you get the 9xx number...the stock horn flows 421 cfm....it's definitely a restriction....

That's good info, it provides numbers that I can dig into, so I appreciate that! The information you provided before wasn't very data based. I'm not trying to start an argument here, so I'm unsure if I'm reading your tone as argumentative when it's not or if you are. Either way, I appreciate the info. I wonder what the factory intake manifold is rated for? If these numbers are accurate then you really should have a vastly larger horn from factory, because it's choking that space down too much from a CFM perspective. I'm sure, as you mentioned earlier, that is a CFM vs PSI debate in here somewhere, but frankly I'm not deep down in the details enough to have it at the moment.

 

[UglyViking]

Look up at post 23.. i no longer have the data logging files from 15 years ago but that was my findings

Yeah, I saw you posted that, I was hoping for numbers I could start to dig into and somehow validate. Don't get me wrong as I'm not intending to call you a lier here, but it's a bit of anecdotal evidence. I like numbers so that as I start to dig into it I've got something a bit more detailed behind it I can research. Again, nothing personal, I just like to see the data whenever I can, especially around performance. Things like "comfort" or "sound" are pretty subjective, but numbers are hard to argue.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Yeah, I saw you posted that, I was hoping for numbers I could start to dig into and somehow validate. Don't get me wrong as I'm not intending to call you a lier here, but it's a bit of anecdotal evidence. I like numbers so that as I start to dig into it I've got something a bit more detailed behind it I can research. Again, nothing personal, I just like to see the data whenever I can, especially around performance. Things like "comfort" or "sound" are pretty subjective, but numbers are hard to argue.

I wish i had kept the logs but my old desktop crashed lol

 

[IndyRamMega]

That's good info, it provides numbers that I can dig into, so I appreciate that! The information you provided before wasn't very data based. I'm not trying to start an argument here, so I'm unsure if I'm reading your tone as argumentative when it's not or if you are. Either way, I appreciate the info. I wonder what the factory intake manifold is rated for? If these numbers are accurate then you really should have a vastly larger horn from factory, because it's choking that space down too much from a CFM perspective. I'm sure, as you mentioned earlier, that is a CFM vs PSI debate in here somewhere, but frankly I'm not deep down in the details enough to have it at the moment.

Not argumentative at all...I'm just direct ....I don't hate ya!

 

[UglyViking]

Not argumentative at all...I'm just direct ....I don't hate ya!

Same but the internet is a crazy place and tone doesn't translate well. Thanks again, I'm gonna start digging in!

 

[CdnHO]

I'm not an engineer, so this could be wrong, but it seems odd to me that this would have any drivability or throttle response gain. The stock horn has more flow than is necessary for what the turbo can output right? If so, how would this change anything, if it's not adding resistance, it seems odd it would. Perhaps the angle of the airflow is more smooth, or the removal of the gridheader results in less air turbulence, but I'm not sure how much you'd notice seat of your pants.

Everything is bigger on the Banks but the inlet which is the same size as stock. Kinda like hookin a half inch hose to feed a three inch hose. That smallest diameter in the system will determine the flow rate. Looks good however. LOL

 

[loveracing1988]

So did this ever get installed?...

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Everything is bigger on the Banks but the inlet which is the same size as stock. Kinda like hookin a half inch hose to feed a three inch hose. That smallest diameter in the system will determine the flow rate. Looks good however. LOL

No the banks offers both a 3.5” and a 4” inlet also the outlet to the intake manifold is larger by a lot and the intake manifold has the same size opening as the banks which is almost if not double the oem size outlet

 

[Gerald_82]

No the order is still waiting to be processed . Also still trying to decide if I’m ready to void my warranty or not


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[loveracing1988]

No the banks offers both a 3.5” and a 4” inlet also the outlet to the intake manifold is larger by a lot and the intake manifold has the same size opening as the banks which is almost if not double the oem size outlet

I don't think they do on the 19-21 trucks unless I missed something.

 

[Gerald_82]

I don't think they do on the 19-21 trucks unless I missed something.

They say the 3in emissions air horn goes up to 2007-2022 but the non emissions where you can choose a 3 or 4in inlet only list til 2018.


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