Lifter Failure? Report it here!

[301cummins]

There is a guy on this forum who had it figured out pretty well. He was actually one of the first to do the Wagner solid roller conversions ( take the hydraulic out the roller). Essentially he said there were 2 different types of ticks one you should be fine for a long time. The other not so much. The noise is believed to be a collapsed lifter which creates a small amount of space causing destruction over time.
Others believe it’s the rollers bouncing up and down on the cam not making good contact. Last theory I know of is the rollers clattering in there bores.

 

[BlueOx2500]

There is a guy on this forum who had it figured out pretty well. He was actually one of the first to do the Wagner solid roller conversions ( take the hydraulic out the roller). Essentially he said there were 2 different types of ticks one you should be fine for a long time. The other not so much. The noise is believed to be a collapsed lifter which creates a small amount of space causing destruction over time.
Others believe it’s the rollers bouncing up and down on the cam not making good contact. Last theory I know of is the rollers clattering in there bores.

This all on top of the paragraph in the Truck Manual entitled "Noise" on page 137:

"Diesel engines can create noises that may seem concerning. Clicking, ticking, or light knocking is normal and will change from day to day, as the engine breaks in, and can vary with changes in ambient temperature."

I wish I knew what was an OK sound and what one isn't...according to the manual none of them are concerning

 

[gimmie11s]

Be concerned when it stops running.

If you get to the end of your 100k powertrain warranty and the noise is the same but the engine runs perfectly fine then its just a characteristic of the engine.

If the noise is causing a major internal problem, the likelihood of catastrophic failure BEFORE your 100k warranty expires is high.

 

[Ostracize]

Anyone know or have the ability to find out if the lifter part numbers are the same in the '25 cummins?

I'm at about 20k on 'new' short block after they changed my original one due to a casting flaw or assembly damage (I think casting) in a lifter bore. This was after first changing all lifters+cam, but it immediately returned... So they dug deeper and changed block.
Now... Again...(sigh).... Fml, I'm starting to hear it at idle just like it originally started in the first block. I did just change the oil... Sooo maybe it will subside, but time will tell.

 

[301cummins]

Anyone know or have the ability to find out if the lifter part numbers are the same in the '25 cummins?

I'm at about 20k on 'new' short block after they changed my original one due to a casting flaw or assembly damage (I think casting) in a lifter bore. This was after first changing all lifters+cam, but it immediately returned... So they dug deeper and changed block.
Now... Again...(sigh).... Fml, I'm starting to hear it at idle just like it originally started in the first block. I did just change the oil... Sooo maybe it will subside, but time will tell.

DNR diesel tore apart a 25. Lifter dimensions are exactly the same. Manufacturer I don’t know who makes them now. Mine always makes noise after a fresh oil change then goes away, if that helps all. L5p’s are known to do the same in some cases.

 

[OLEJOE]

DNR diesel tore apart a 25. Lifter dimensions are exactly the same. Manufacturer I don’t know who makes them now. Mine always makes noise after a fresh oil change then goes away, if that helps all. L5p’s are known to do the same in some cases.

Mine is quieter after an oil change. IDK

 

[Ostracize]

DNR diesel tore apart a 25. Lifter dimensions are exactly the same. Manufacturer I don’t know who makes them now. Mine always makes noise after a fresh oil change then goes away, if that helps all. L5p’s are known to do the same in some cases.

Thanks, didn't know anyone torn one down yet, I'll check it out.
Given the 4 different "designs" or iterations under the original unchanged part number definitely (to me) indicate there was/is either:
A) supply chain issues (but why change the design) or vendor quality concerns.
B) known (behind the scenes) issue and thus trying to iterate or tweak to improve reliability

If it's the vendor side of A, then why hasn't there been either a TSB or an "AB" part number once (I assume) they felt the issue was sorted.

If it's B, how has it not by now, been used to inform the engineering of the 25 design changes.

I cannot wrap my brain around how there are no official changes to the part number. The cynicism side of me lands on; posting a TSB or listing an AB part number would essentially be admitting to the issue that has been more than less under the radar.

 

[Ostracize]

Mine is quieter after an oil change. IDK

Original motor... Mine came and went throughout oci, then became more often, then constant, then louder..over the course of ~50k, 8-10k OCI's, 5/40 valvo blue full synth.

New block ~20k, 5k OCI, first 2 were 200mi/1k respectively then 5k since, initial build oil was T6 5/40, switched to T6 10/30 since first OC.

 

[JedNelson]

I have a 2022 with 23K of city driving. Truck blew up on the freeway 3 months ago. Dealer has been stringing me along for three months. One and a half months ago they told me the motor had a bad lifter and rocker arm. They replaced that. Then 3 weeks ago, there was lower damage to a piston and I needed a new motor... but it was covered but they needed approval for the "restricted" motor. Now finally, yesterday they text and say the motor has been approved. TODAY they call and say, due to "contaminates in the fuel" the motor is no longer approved under warranty and neither is my rental. They won't do anything under warranty!!! So - next call is to my lawyer I guess. This is a brand new truck that has had all services and recalls performed and documented. This is just STAR and RAM trying to get out of this engine replacement. IM FURIOUS! Any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated by all!

 

[Units]

I have a 2022 with 23K of city driving. Truck blew up on the freeway 3 months ago. Dealer has been stringing me along for three months. One and a half months ago they told me the motor had a bad lifter and rocker arm. They replaced that. Then 3 weeks ago, there was lower damage to a piston and I needed a new motor... but it was covered but they needed approval for the "restricted" motor. Now finally, yesterday they text and say the motor has been approved. TODAY they call and say, due to "contaminates in the fuel" the motor is no longer approved under warranty and neither is my rental. They won't do anything under warranty!!! So - next call is to my lawyer I guess. This is a brand new truck that has had all services and recalls performed and documented. This is just STAR and RAM trying to get out of this engine replacement. IM FURIOUS! Any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated by all!

Did they state what the contamination in the fuel was? Did you use any sort of additive? Also, what do you mean by “blew up on the freeway”?
I would definitely call a lawyer, you would think that since they found damage in the powertrain it would be covered under the 5yr/100k warranty.

 

[flan]

did a injector hang and burn a hole in a piston? That why they blaming fuel contamination?

 

[ErikTheRed]

Did they state what the contamination in the fuel was? Did you use any sort of additive?

So what if he did? Does a popular name-brand fuel additive such as Archoil or Power Service void a warranty due to "fuel contamination", especially if the engine failure had nothing to do with the fuel? Thats an ugly can of worms right there. Sounds like a field day for any competent attorney. If they refuse to fix it, Id be in buy-back persuit mode right now.... unless theres more to the story....

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I have a 2022 with 23K of city driving. Truck blew up on the freeway 3 months ago. Dealer has been stringing me along for three months. One and a half months ago they told me the motor had a bad lifter and rocker arm. They replaced that. Then 3 weeks ago, there was lower damage to a piston and I needed a new motor... but it was covered but they needed approval for the "restricted" motor. Now finally, yesterday they text and say the motor has been approved. TODAY they call and say, due to "contaminates in the fuel" the motor is no longer approved under warranty and neither is my rental. They won't do anything under warranty!!! So - next call is to my lawyer I guess. This is a brand new truck that has had all services and recalls performed and documented. This is just STAR and RAM trying to get out of this engine replacement. IM FURIOUS! Any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated by all!

So it “blew up” they said lifters then piston then fuel? Sounds like we are missing some pieces to the story here….

 

[Units]

So what if he did? Does a popular name-brand fuel additive such as Archoil or Power Service void a warranty due to "fuel contamination", especially if the engine failure had nothing to do with the fuel? Thats an ugly can of worms right there. Sounds like a field day for any competent attorney. If they refuse to fix it, Id be in buy-back persuit mode right now.... unless theres more to the story....

Thats

So what if he did? Does a popular name-brand fuel additive such as Archoil or Power Service void a warranty due to "fuel contamination", especially if the engine failure had nothing to do with the fuel? Thats an ugly can of worms right there. Sounds like a field day for any competent attorney. If they refuse to fix it, Id be in buy-back persuit mode right now.... unless theres more to the story....

The reason I asked that is because I along with plenty others use a fuel additive, hopefully that’s not the case. If that is the case, products like Power Service, which you mention, are endorsed by Cummins and I agree an attorney would have a field day. What we have here is an incomplete story. Hopefully the OP gets a satisfactory outcome.

 

[Seadoorxpguy]

Well pretty sure my HO 23 3500 is starting to develop the infamous lifter tick. With the truck idling then quick stabs at the pedal on rpm decel there’s a very pronounced typewriter ticking from the passenger side wheel well. Pretty repeatable. No real noise at idle. Only when the rpm’s are increased and then allowed to suddenly decrease

 

[OLEJOE]

Well pretty sure my HO 23 3500 is starting to develop the infamous lifter tick. With the truck idling then quick stabs at the pedal on rpm decel there’s a very pronounced typewriter ticking from the passenger side wheel well. Pretty repeatable. No real noise at idle. Only when the rpm’s are increased and then allowed to suddenly decrease

The cam and lifters are on the driver side.

 

[Ostracize]

Well pretty sure my HO 23 3500 is starting to develop the infamous lifter tick. With the truck idling then quick stabs at the pedal on rpm decel there’s a very pronounced typewriter ticking from the passenger side wheel well. Pretty repeatable. No real noise at idle. Only when the rpm’s are increased and then allowed to suddenly decrease

Would be pronounced on the drivers side..
You are likely hearing the DEF injection ticking that follows the falling rpm after your "stab"
... Easy to confirm for yourself though.

 

[Seadoorxpguy]

Ok I’m going to check it out a little more tomorrow.

 

[Ostracize]

Ok I’m going to check it out a little more tomorrow.

Report finding if you please... Inquiring minds and all..

 

[Seadoorxpguy]

So looked at the truck for a while today. Did some more reading and was hoping it was the def injector noise. I have a strong suspicion it is not now. I did recently do an oil change and saw a lot of people said after a few hundred miles the noise quiets down. So I guess I’m just going to drive it for a few weeks and see what happens. Pretty sure if the lifters. The noise changes with rpm. It’s really only noticeable on sudden rpm drop while the truck is in park and you rev the engine. No real noise or at least that I can hear while driving. I was trying to get a video but couldn’t get it where you could hear the tick well. I’ll try again tomorrow.