Truck Payload Info

[Stumblefoot]

Out of curiosity, what kind of bumper pull TT are you buying with that kind of weight rating? That is a very heavy bumper pull. Most TT bumper pull I have seen are far less than 10k unloaded and well under 1k tongue, so I'm curious what you've got in yours?

Reflection 315RTLS by Grand Design

 

[texas.yankee]

Reflection 315RTLS by Grand Design

That is a big boy! But where are you getting the tongue weight being 16-1700 lbs? I'm just wondering if I'm calculating mine wrong now. Isn't the max tongue weight usually around 10% of the GVWR?

 

[Gondul]

That is a big boy! But where are you getting the tongue weight being 16-1700 lbs? I'm just wondering if I'm calculating mine wrong now. Isn't the max tongue weight usually around 10% of the GVWR?

I'm new to this whole towing thing, but from what I've read 10% is minimum, about 13% is good, and max is 15%. The higher the % the more stable the rig.

 

[texas.yankee]

I'm new to this whole towing thing, but from what I've read 10% is minimum, about 13% is good, and max is 15%. The higher the % the more stable the rig.

OK, that's what I thought. So, if the link Stumblefoot provided shows a tongue weight of 1,065 lbs, where is the extra tongue weight coming from? I thought the manufacturer tongue weight was based on the GVWR of the trailer? I'm just trying to to clear my trailering tactics and making sure I'm not doing the math wrong.

 

[Gondul]

OK, that's what I thought. So, if the link Stumblefoot provided shows a tongue weight of 1,065 lbs, where is the extra tongue weight coming from? I thought the manufacturer tongue weight was based on the GVWR of the trailer? I'm just trying to to clear my trailering tactics and making sure I'm not doing the math wrong.

I think he may be including the stuff he's hauling as part of the TW... which it really isn't, but either way both take away from payload.

 

[DevilDodge]

Your tongue weight is calculated at 10 to 15% of your unladen weight. As you pack up towards your GVWR, were you put this weight changes the tongue weight. Load the front you increase it, load the back you decrease it, load it over the axles and it doesn't change much.

On a car trailer, moving the car forward or backward, or loading it front to front, or back to front will change your tongue weight.

On a bumper pull you want tongue weight closer to 10% and on a 5th wheel closet to 15%.

Your propane and battery will change your tongue weight.

The only way to know for sure is to weigh your tongue, or take your setup to a cat scale. These two scenarios have been described how to do here elsewhere...but if you need/want more info we can discuss.

Hope this helps...and if anything is off or confusing...let me know.

 

[DevilDodge]

including the stuff he's hauling as part of the TW..

Just for info....if you load items rear of your rear axle, that is considered with the tongue weight,by some people, so you do have to watch how you load your bed, but the new receivers and frames can hold more...so this may be mute nowadays.

This is why I prefer the Heavy Duty, I don't really concern myself much with where I put stuff. But when you get into the higher trims, you do still have tobe careful.

 

[Gondul]

Just for info....if you load items rear of your rear axle, that is considered with the tongue weight,by some people, so you do have to watch how you load your bed, but the new receivers and frames can hold more...so this may be mute nowadays.

This is why I prefer the Heavy Duty, I don't really concern myself much with where I put stuff. But when you get into the higher trims, you do still have tobe careful.

While I am going for the Limited, I am keeping the options to a minimum, so payload should be decent (unlike the Power Wagon).
Payload should't be any worse than the loaded Longhorn I posted and it has stuff I don't want.

 

[Stumblefoot]

That is a big boy! But where are you getting the tongue weight being 16-1700 lbs? I'm just wondering if I'm calculating mine wrong now. Isn't the max tongue weight usually around 10% of the GVWR?

Texas.Yankee, you are right, the tongue weight is only 1,065 lbs. But, that is dry weight.

In the Grand Design owner's forum, as well as on their Facebook page, there are lots of folks who own these trailers and have posted their CAT Scale results. Since all of the storage in this trailer is in front of the axles, as well as the water tanks, the vast majority of folks are coming in between 1,600 - 1,700 lbs. So, i'm just being ultra conservative as I plan for the worst case scenarios.

I think he may be including the stuff he's hauling as part of the TW... which it really isn't, but either way both take away from payload.

Not exactly, but conceptually you are correct. Simplistically, if the trailer has a tongue weight of 1,065 with a corresponding dry weight (UVW) of 8,995, then the tongue weight percentage is 11.8%. Applying that percentage to the max GVWR of 10,995 results in a tongue weight of 1,302. If that were the real world case, then all would probably be okay. But, since virtually all of the incremental 2,000 lbs. of goodies goes in front of the axles, then the tongue weight is going to be much greater than 11.8%, which is what folks are experiencing in the real world.

Your tongue weight is calculated at 10 to 15% of your unladen weight. As you pack up towards your GVWR, were you put this weight changes the tongue weight. Load the front you increase it, load the back you decrease it, load it over the axles and it doesn't change much.

Exactly!

We'll start small (i.e. don't upgrade the mattress to a residential Sleep Number model, don't install a washer/dryer, etc.) before going nuts. We'll definitely measure the actual weights at our local truck stop to see where are when we (1) pickup the trailer, (2) add our normal camping gear, and (3) add food and water to the load. Then we'll know how much weight we have left for any of life's luxuries we may want to add later.

 

[orlando bull]

Texas.Yankee, you are right, the tongue weight is only 1,065 lbs. But, that is dry weight.

In the Grand Design owner's forum, as well as on their Facebook page, there are lots of folks who own these trailers and have posted their CAT Scale results. Since all of the storage in this trailer is in front of the axles, as well as the water tanks, the vast majority of folks are coming in between 1,600 - 1,700 lbs. So, i'm just being ultra conservative as I plan for the worst case scenarios.



Not exactly, but conceptually you are correct. Simplistically, if the trailer has a tongue weight of 1,065 with a corresponding dry weight (UVW) of 8,995, then the tongue weight percentage is 11.8%. Applying that percentage to the max GVWR of 10,995 results in a tongue weight of 1,302. If that were the real world case, then all would probably be okay. But, since virtually all of the incremental 2,000 lbs. of goodies goes in front of the axles, then the tongue weight is going to be much greater than 11.8%, which is what folks are experiencing in the real world.

Exactly!

We'll start small (i.e. don't upgrade the mattress to a residential Sleep Number model, don't install a washer/dryer, etc.) before going nuts. We'll definitely measure the actual weights at our local truck stop to see where are when we (1) pickup the trailer, (2) add our normal camping gear, and (3) add food and water to the load. Then we'll know how much weight we have left for any of life's luxuries we may want to add later.

You've done your homework. I think you got this... Just for everyone's sake...

Your tongue weight should be between 10-15% of overall. Don't play games with your loading to try and save payload (i.e. load excessive weights rear of trailer axles). You're MUCH better off being over payload than being less than 10% on your tongue weight. You need to load accordingly. If you have 1000# of stuff to put in the TT, put 850# forward of axles and 150# rear.

Sorry, just didn't want anyone to read this stuff and think 'gee, if I put all my stuff in the back, I create payload in my truck!'

 

[Stumblefoot]

You've done your homework. I think you got this.

Sorry, just didn't want anyone to read this stuff and think 'gee, if I put all my stuff in the back, I create payload in my truck!'

No problem. I appreciate you making the point. It's good for everyone to know.

And, you are so right. I just wish all of the countless hours I've spent researching the travel trailer and truck capacities and capabilities translated to success in the stock market. It's amazing how many mistakes I still make after all of these years of "investing".

 

[DevilDodge]

You've done your homework. I think you got this... Just for everyone's sake...

Your tongue weight should be between 10-15% of overall. Don't play games with your loading to try and save payload (i.e. load excessive weights rear of trailer axles). You're MUCH better off being over payload than being less than 10% on your tongue weight. You need to load accordingly. If you have 1000# of stuff to put in the TT, put 850# forward of axles and 150# rear.

Sorry, just didn't want anyone to read this stuff and think 'gee, if I put all my stuff in the back, I create payload in my truck!'

Thanks @Gondul. I intended to show how tongue weight is impacted from the factory rating...but I am glad you pointed this out.

You definitely do not want your trailer heavy in the back, especially trying to compensate for tongue weight.

 

[hutchman]

Real world example:

2016 Ram Rebel. Terrible payload and OK tow rating. It was a 1500, so the axle ratings are low also.
2017 ORV 20RD 8000# GVWR, Trailer loaded for travel about 7000# and 1000# of tongue wt.
Load equalizind hitch was set up by me as per the instructions. I measured the front fender opening unloaded and with the trailer on the hitch. I set the angle of the hitch such that with the bars loaded, the fender opening returned to within 3/8" of where it was unloaded.

This resulted in all axles being under or at axle limits.....not over. The truck was heavy and that's all I'll say about that. The truck drove like a dream. One finger control on the highway if you wanted....not for me but it drlve really well. No sway when passing semis, no issue with quartering tail winds, no muss no fuss.

The setup makes all the difference when towing a TT from my experience.

 

[Gondul]

Walkthrough video of a Powerwagon

2019 Powerwagon Crew Cab

Payload 1362

VIN

2019 RAM 2500 Power Wagon

 

[Heckyl]

You definitely need 10% tongue weight. If you don’t have a good amount of tongue weight you will get the trailer
swearving left and right.... very very dangerous. I have a buddy that thought it would be a good idea to mount a generator
on the rear bumper of his trailer, and this caused his tongue weight to be low, and he got into one of those death trailer wags that got so extreme that it spun his whole truck and trailer into a 360 spin on the expressway! Tongue weight is good,
if you are going to miss load, miss toward the front of your trailer.

 

[Stumblefoot]

Payload 1362

1,362? And I thought Limited’s had a low payload.

 

[Gondul]

1,362? And I thought Limited’s how low payload.

I think you posted/looked at a Limited with a Diesel, unless you've seen/found another one, a gasser would be higher.
The Longhorn at the beginning of this thread had a payload of 2730... I expect the Limited I ordered to have a similar payload (mine actually has less options than the Longhorn)

 

[Gondul]

I swear these dealers are intentionally ignorant...

Found a 2500 Limited Crew Cab 4x4 on a lot and asked for the payload per the sticker... they replied 6,000# payload and 17, 000# towing...

 

[DevilDodge]

I swear these dealers are intentionally ignorant...

Found a 2500 Limited Crew Cab 4x4 on a lot and asked for the payload per the sticker... they replied 6,000# payload and 17, 000# towing...

Wow...

 

[Gondul]

Ok, after very politely explaining the impossibility of a 6,000# payload, they went out an got the payload sticker.
Very similar payload to the LONGHORN I first posted up, I ordered less options so hopefully a smidge higher payload.

Knock off 860# from the payload for a diesel...

2019 RAM 2500 LIMITED CREW CAB 4X4
6.4 HEMI
Payload per Ram Chart is 3,380
Payload per door sticker 2,738

VIN Build Sheet