Toxic Cost of Going Green

[Dave01]

I agree completely Enve46, when you look at all the rooftops of houses, but even more so of commercial buildings, there is a ton of space for solar that has no effect on the surroundings. An outfit I'm involved with bought and refurbished a 26,000 ft. building, and as part of the project put a good sized solar array on the new roof. I'm less knowledgeable about the big arrays on the ground in sunny states, I'm sure in some cases there is plenty of room and not too much impact of them, but we certainly don't want to, for example, give up green space in areas that already have too little.

The economics of solar are tricky because the various states have such differing programs. Yes, there are incentives, but I see them as a good thing, give a homeowner or local business an incentive to put up solar that saves them money and reduces fossil fuel needs. The programs are not expensive in the scheme of things and help with peak demand. It's not something the public always is made aware of, but when demand spikes and a power company has to put online a "peaker" plant, that electricity can cost several times the normal rate and of course the ratepayers pay for those plants to be held on standby and turned on when needed.

 

[Brewbud]

The problem with EV adoption is in the way the government (especially CA) is trying to force people into them. The technology is just not there yet but big advancements in battery tech are coming that will advance battery tech - some even without lithium. Current Lithium mining practices are horrible but can be made better. I doubt that will happen in China but it is happening in Australia. As crazy as it may seem, as of 2022, the largest demand for for lithium was consumer electronics and not EVs. Of course with the way the government is pushing them it will soon be the EV market with the highest demand if it hasn't happened already. Another reason they should slow the adoption.

I bought an EV over a year ago. I was on the list for 3 years to get it. I didn't buy it for a notion of being green. I bought it for performance, convenience, features, and ease of maintenance. I almost flipped it for $$$ because the market at the time was crazy high. The thing is I liked driving it so much I kept it. I still kept my Ram though. Although, I have to admit, the Rivian is getting much more use. I still find it odd how so many people think of a vehicle as political. Maybe it's because the Rivian is kind of like an energy hog in the EV world, but most of those I know and see on the forums are not left greenies either.

 

[Dave01]

Brewbud, there can't be many driveways with a Ram 2500 diesel next to a Rivian! Very cool that you have both vehicles. Rivian owners tend to be really happy with their vehicles, impressive package of performance and practicality in a really nice daily driver.

Agree on batteries, I'm hopeful that time and advancements in tech will solve the lithium problem. And I'm really glad you mentioned the vast use of lithium in electronics, I don't hear people railing about iPhones being pushed on us in favor of corded phones.

 

[JP426]

My son works for a large public utility, he says they can not get any transformers to install new electrical services. This will be a major hurdle for the needed electrical grid to support green energy.

 

[Great White North Eh]

Lots of transformers come from China…… hmm. All dollars seem to lead East.

 

[flan]

Im fine with it, but like anything what pisses me off is when something is forced on me (states won’t sell gas powered items last certain dates as an example) and when my tax dollars subsidize these projects that companies are making money from. Fund it your dam self..

 

[Dave01]

Im fine with it, but like anything what pisses me off is when something is forced on me (states won’t sell gas powered items last certain dates as an example) and when my tax dollars subsidize these projects that companies are making money from. Fund it your dam self..

I don't disagree. But .... why do we subsidize the huge oil companies? And then during periods of low supply and the highest prices somehow, someway, they report record quarterly profits? I'm not making this up. Part of the reason for subsidies for renewable energy is to help the industries get a foothold and encourage investment, part is to force fossil fuel companies to accept them and not simply force them out of business. Given the choice, they absolutely would.

 

[flan]

I don't disagree. But .... why do we subsidize the huge oil companies? And then during periods of low supply and the highest prices somehow, someway, they report record quarterly profits? I'm not making this up. Part of the reason for subsidies for renewable energy is to help the industries get a foothold and encourage investment, part is to force fossil fuel companies to accept them and not simply force them out of business. Given the choice, they absolutely would.

That’s fair. I see your point. It just irks me when you can get a 8k tax break in my state if you buy a EV, but if you don’t subscribe to the green new deal you have to pay a gas guzzler tax.

 

[Dave01]

That’s fair. I see your point. It just irks me when you can get a 8k tax break in my state if you buy a EV, but if you don’t subscribe to the green new deal you have to pay a gas guzzler tax.

Are the 3/4 ton and up trucks exempt from gas guzzler tax? Not familiar with that.

I'm definitely not anti fossil fuel, I guess driving a 6.4 Ram after a bunch of diesel trucks kind of tell that story. And my boats and tractors and .....

I guess where I'm at with the EV tax rebate is probably about the same as you. I liked it to get the industry started, but now with years under their belt and many hundred thousands built you'd think they could stand on their own. I know the intent was once a manufacturer made I think 200,000 ev's the tax no longer applied, so Tesla and a few others were out of the program, but then they said it could continue.

I was weedwacking a couple of days ago, my gas string trimmer had one of the fuel lines break so I had to grab a little electric one we have. Made me chuckle because I thought of this thread. I'm not a fan of dragging my 100' extension cord around the yard!

 

[flan]

Are the 3/4 ton and up trucks exempt from gas guzzler tax? Not familiar with that.

I'm definitely not anti fossil fuel, I guess driving a 6.4 Ram after a bunch of diesel trucks kind of tell that story. And my boats and tractors and .....

I guess where I'm at with the EV tax rebate is probably about the same as you. I liked it to get the industry started, but now with years under their belt and many hundred thousands built you'd think they could stand on their own. I know the intent was once a manufacturer made I think 200,000 ev's the tax no longer applied, so Tesla and a few others were out of the program, but then they said it could continue.

I was weedwacking a couple of days ago, my gas string trimmer had one of the fuel lines break so I had to grab a little electric one we have. Made me chuckle because I thought of this thread. I'm not a fan of dragging my 100' extension cord around the yard!

Cars less than 22mpg. It may be a national thing even.

 

[Enve46]

Lots of transformers come from China…… hmm. All dollars seem to lead East.

Watch Shawn Ryans show on the power grid. You'll turn into a tinfoil hat guy like me hahaha... But back on topic, I can never see myself in an EV. I like to hear the engine work. Ive had several cars that are brutally fast off the line, RS7 for one but got incredibly boring. I prefer high revving, NA power for something thats fun. The autonomy is interesting but don't know that I would trust it jut yet.

 

[Will_T]

I bought an EV over a year ago. I was on the list for 3 years to get it. I didn't buy it for a notion of being green. I bought it for performance, convenience, features, and ease of maintenance.

View attachment 59605

My son has an EV for those same reasons. He kept his original sports car but is now planning to sell it. His EV is just too much fun to drive so the other car stays parked. But for someone like me an EV just not exist yet that will safely tow my TT.

 

[CdnHO]

With a 22K fifth wheel, a EV is the furthest thing from my mind. And the next time a hurricane hits the east coast the interstate will the filled with dead EVs trying to get out of town. We aren't there yet, despite what the politicians dream about.

 

[CaptainMike]

Just another idea so good that the government has to mandate it. I don't have any problem with EV's, sound environmental stewardship, or alternate energy sources, but "Green Energy" would not grow or thrive organically. Everything governments stick their nose in turns to sh!t. Everything.

 

[arx237]

With a 22K fifth wheel, a EV is the furthest thing from my mind.

Airstream would like to meet you halfway and electrify your trailer then. It's a neat concept adding the EV to the trailer. I would just hate to see what Airstream plans on charging for it.

The Airstream eStream Concept: An Electrifying Promise for the Future of Travel and Adventure

the eStream Concept Travel Trailer is a vision for how we’ll hit the road in the coming years.

www.airstream.com

 

[Brewbud]

With a 22K fifth wheel, a EV is the furthest thing from my mind. And the next time a hurricane hits the east coast the interstate will the filled with dead EVs trying to get out of town. We aren't there yet, despite what the politicians dream about.

Definitely not for the fiver. But regarding hurricanes, I know people in FL with EVs. They have no issues. Charge up at home to be prepared and the 300+ mile range gets them were they need to be. Remember fuel pumps need electricity too. But the real issue is getting gas deliveries in bad times.

 

[gimmie11s]

The coasts don't have issues with charging EVs. Large masses of people bring infrastructue.

LOL @ the idea that an EV is smart in middle America where the population is much less dense.

 

[Dave01]

The coasts don't have issues with charging EVs. Large masses of people bring infrastructue.

LOL @ the idea that an EV is smart in middle America where the population is much less dense.

I have no idea what you are talking about

 

[Phil T]

 

[Will_T]

I have no idea what you are talking about

View attachment 59795

That photo is what I see a lot when camping and what scares me about the possibility of limp mode so much. I have friends and family on the east side of the country and most have no idea about our wide open spaces in states like Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, etc. Heck, even eastern Oregon seems like another planet sometimes. (But I sure love it out there!.)