Too much oil and poor dealer help

[Dinky503]

It might be a lot different than a 5th gen, but we don’t know yet as there isn’t a 5th gen out.

It’s got far more in common with the current CGI blocks than you think. Oil in the pan is the same in both. The operating oil temps will be very similar since the oil system, to include the pump and cooling, is nearly identical. They are both ISB’s after all. Just simple tractor engines, it’s the emissions that complicates them.

Point is that your checking method isn’t the ideal one, and if you want to document an issue it needs to be an ideal check. Having watched accurate oil temps, not the fake OEM gauge that isn’t accurate below operating temp, I’m letting you know you need to do your documented checks overnight.

i agree to a point and do get what you are saying. I do agree oil checks would be most accurate after sitting all night especially for what I am tracking.

Back to the real subject

UPDATE !

Truck is back at the dealer as 1-24-2024. Dealer is surprised by how much it has risen in 400 miles. Had a talk with the manager about what's going on and how to move forward. Pulled oil sample after documenting oil level with them. I went with a Fleetguard kit, over nighted the sample and paid for same day processing. I should have the results by Monday I would imagine. Have not heard from the dealer since I have dropped it off.


This is the moring of the 24th



This what the deal pulled for documentation. Over ran onto the cable.....

 

[CaptainMike]

i agree to a point and do get what you are saying. I do agree oil checks would be most accurate after sitting all night especially for what I am tracking.

Back to the real subject

UPDATE !

Truck is back at the dealer as 1-24-2024. Dealer is surprised by how much it has risen in 400 miles. Had a talk with the manager about what's going on and how to move forward. Pulled oil sample after documenting oil level with them. I went with a Fleetguard kit, over nighted the sample and paid for same day processing. I should have the results by Monday I would imagine. Have not heard from the dealer since I have dropped it off.


This is the moring of the 24th
View attachment 68444


This what the deal pulled for documentation. Over ran onto the cable.....
View attachment 68447

That's what mine looks like after 200 miles.

 

[Dinky503]

That's what mine looks like after 200 miles.

Do you have it at the dealer now? Any word what it is?

 

[CaptainMike]

Do you have it at the dealer now? Any word what it is?

They replaced the MAF sensor last week and it seems to be worse. Either that or the real problem, whatever that might be, is getting worse. I'm scheduled for a fuel system eval on 2/14, with suspicions pointing to injectors or the fuel pump.

 

[Dinky503]

They replaced the MAF sensor last week and it seems to be worse. Either that or the real problem, whatever that might be, is getting worse. I'm scheduled for a fuel system eval on 2/14, with suspicions pointing to injectors or the fuel pump.

Are you at the same dealership as the ones you told me about? I think my regen issue is from my fuel issue. Its too much fluid in that amount of time. How many miles do you have on your truck? @G Mcpherson told me about his last week, he checked his oil after seeing my post.

 

[Ram7]

They replaced the MAF sensor last week and it seems to be worse. Either that or the real problem, whatever that might be, is getting worse. I'm scheduled for a fuel system eval on 2/14, with suspicions pointing to injectors or the fuel pump.

Did they put in the MAF from China? I'm going through the same thing and one of my local dealers said they could do my MAF sensor and that they've been having luck with that but who knows.

 

[Dinky503]

Did they put in the MAF from China? I'm going through the same thing and one of my local dealers said they could do my MAF sensor and that they've been having luck with that but who knows.

They just replaced mine... drove off the lot in regen mode....when the tech drove my truck to get it calibererated triggered a regen and left it that way lol.

 

[CaptainMike]

Are you at the same dealership as the ones you told me about? I think my regen issue is from my fuel issue. Its too much fluid in that amount of time. How many miles do you have on your truck? @G Mcpherson told me about his last week, he checked his oil after seeing my post.

The one I told you about was the one that repaired the tranny. It broke down in their town so they were it. My local dealer has some pretty good techs and they are doing their best to figure this out. My truck just turned over 22,000 miles, and has been one big ticket nightmare after another since the day I ordered it. I'm coming to the end of my patience with this POS.

 

[CaptainMike]

Did they put in the MAF from China? I'm going through the same thing and one of my local dealers said they could do my MAF sensor and that they've been having luck with that but who knows.

I didn't bother to look and don't care. The MAFS is not what's wrong with my truck, I know it and the main tech at my dealership knows it. The odds are getting pretty good that it's the injectors. However, I can check the MAFS and let you know tomorrow if you'd like.

 

[Dinky503]

The one I told you about was the one that repaired the tranny. It broke down in their town so they were it. My local dealer has some pretty good techs and they are doing their best to figure this out. My truck just turned over 22,000 miles, and has been one big ticket nightmare after another since the day I ordered it. I'm coming to the end of my patience with this POS.

Good to know, I feel your pain, I wish the dealer actually had common sense.

 

[Dinky503]

UPDATE!

No word from the dealer, called Ram care again and they never opened my case back up.

Did get my oil test back here are the results.

 

[mbarber84]

Awesome.

Greater than 10% fuel in 400 miles.
That is an absurdly high amount of fuel.
You definitely have at least one injector dropping fuel at a higher than normal rate, or there’s a seal leak on the HPFP and it’s sending fuel in through the timing case. I wouldn’t put another mile on that truck until it’s corrected. You’re going to wipe the rotating assemblies and the valvetrain out of it (if you haven’t started to already). There’s no engine oil out there that can tolerate that level of fuel dilution.

 

[Riddick]

Hate to read this but love reading the data you provided! Hope this assists the dealer in trouble shooting. You mentioned earlier they did an injector test and they said it came back fine. Anyone on here familiar with this test and how they perform said test? If the test is legit maybe Matt is correct about the HPFP seal leaking. I wish I had some advice for you, I surely hope they don't start throwing random parts at your truck hoping one of them resolves the issue.

 

[Dinky503]

Awesome.

Greater than 10% fuel in 400 miles.
That is an absurdly high amount of fuel.
You definitely have at least one injector dropping fuel at a higher than normal rate, or there’s a seal leak on the HPFP and it’s sending fuel in through the timing case. I wouldn’t put another mile on that truck until it’s corrected. You’re going to wipe the rotating assemblies and the valvetrain out of it (if you haven’t started to already). There’s no engine oil out there that can tolerate that level of fuel dilution.

Yep it is what i suspected all a long. hopefully the dealer can take these test results and actually do something besides change batteries.

 

[mbarber84]

I believe it’s typically an injector flow return test. Basically they want to see how much fuel is being returned to the tank over so much time. Can tell you some specifics about how much fuel is going into the engine through the injectors / feed lines at various RPM over periods of time. But it is not the sole test that can be done. The injectors themselves sometimes need to be removed and bench tested. I would suspect if the HPFP was leaking extensively through the input seal, the truck would probably be generating low rail pressure codes or intermittent starting issues. I would suspect the fuel is entering through the injectors themselves, or poorly connected crossover tubes. Again, I would expect that to cause intermittent power loss or start issues. The only thing that sounds plausible to me is an injector that’s hanging up, dripping excess fuel, or isn’t properly patterning in the cylinder

 

[Dinky503]

Hate to read this but love reading the data you provided! Hope this assists the dealer in trouble shooting. You mentioned earlier they did an injector test and they said it came back fine. Anyone on here familiar with this test and how they perform said test? If the test is legit maybe Matt is correct about the HPFP seal leaking. I wish I had some advice for you, I surely hope they don't start throwing random parts at your truck hoping one of them resolves the issue.

They performed a injector Power balance test... not ideal at all to test for leaky injectors. Ive talked to a few people injectors and pump leak is what has been the main issue so far.

 

[scdo]

(I will cross post this in the Frequent Regens post as well)

After way too many visits (for Frequent Regens), I just went to pick my truck back up with a replaced DPF. I requested the dealer to verify oil while they had it (being worried about fuel dilution)... they confirmed it was at normal level.

Before starting the engine, I checked the level myself (in their lot)... it was about half an inch over the max fill line. Got into a little argument with the tech. The tech said that they drain and then refill with 12 quarts. He said in order for all the oil to drain, they'd have to wait over an hour -- they do not do that. It is my understanding that if they don't, it will be over-filled. He essentially admitted to bad technique but somehow I was in the wrong.

Long story short, the service manager took a look and completely agreed the level was outside of spec. They're going to let it drain over-night and refill.

 

[mbarber84]

(I will cross post this in the Frequent Regens post as well)

After way too many visits (for Frequent Regens), I just went to pick my truck back up with a replaced DPF. I requested the dealer to verify oil while they had it (being worried about fuel dilution)... they confirmed it was at normal level.

Before starting the engine, I checked the level myself (in their lot)... it was about half an inch over the max fill line. Got into a little argument with the tech. The tech said that they drain and then refill with 12 quarts. He said in order for all the oil to drain, they'd have to wait over an hour -- they do not do that. It is my understanding that if they don't, it will be over-filled. He essentially admitted to bad technique but somehow I was in the wrong.

Long story short, the service manager took a look and completely agreed the level was outside of spec. They're going to let it drain over-night and refill.

The extra oil over “full” can be both a cause and a symptom. If it’s not given time to drain properly, the crankcase may not adequately drain down. Adding 12 quarts more will result in an overage of oil, which can therefore be picked up by the ccv system and pushed into the charge air. That can create or contribute to more frequent regeneration.

Similarly, if the truck is regenerating more frequently than necessary, the added fuel from regeneration can increase the oil level as well.

 

[LaB345]

If the oil is that diluted with fuel, wouldn’t you notice a significant drop in oil pressure?

 

[mbarber84]

If the oil is that diluted with fuel, wouldn’t you notice a significant drop in oil pressure?

You wouldn’t necessarily be able to see a drop in the oil pressure because the oil pressure reading on the gauge isn’t an actual live pressure reading. There is no live oil pressure sensor on these trucks. It’s a ”yes / no” switch basically. If the oil pressure is above the minimum to activate the switch, you don’t get a notice. If the oil pressure goes below the minimum threshold to close the switch, the dummy light on the dash tells you no oil pressure. The psi readings you see on the instrument cluster are the result of an algorithm the pcm calculates based on a number of parameters. It’s an educated guess at best.