Ram Heavy Duty Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Regens at alarming rate!

batman900

Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2023
Messages
57
Reaction score
91
Well guys and gals after 21 years of owning a diesel the US government and its restrictions have forced me and I’m sure others in due time to move on! Thanks for all the info and great conversations. I’ve moved on to a 2024 (Gasser) I hope it will do what I need? time will tell. Maybe I’ll be back who knows? Thanks again and best wishes!

Beautiful. Probably the direction I'll go "if" I end up having issues. That or the Ford 7.3.

I still can't fathom what's causing the issues. I agree with everything mbarber84 has said but I don't follow the rules with my 2024. It spends just as much time at idle or going under 30mph as it does highway and still hasn't moved from 0% in almost 3k miles with 2 regens right at the 24 & 48 hour marks. Compared to my father's 23 that he used to tow every day and couldn't go 100 miles without a regen. Baffling
 

Units

Active Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2023
Messages
178
Reaction score
155
Location
South Ms.
Beautiful. Probably the direction I'll go "if" I end up having issues. That or the Ford 7.3.

I still can't fathom what's causing the issues. I agree with everything mbarber84 has said but I don't follow the rules with my 2024. It spends just as much time at idle or going under 30mph as it does highway and still hasn't moved from 0% in almost 3k miles with 2 regens right at the 24 & 48 hour marks. Compared to my father's 23 that he used to tow every day and couldn't go 100 miles without a regen. Baffling
Put some miles on it, that will change. I’ve got right at 7k on my ‘23, it did like yours and didn’t seem to move past zero at first. Now with mixed driving and hitting the interstate to and from work 60 miles everyday, I usually hit somewhere between 450 and 600 miles before an active regen. One regen before my last one was 365 miles, lots of in town stop and go driving on that one.
 

batman900

Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2023
Messages
57
Reaction score
91
Put some miles on it, that will change. I’ve got right at 7k on my ‘23, it did like yours and didn’t seem to move past zero at first. Now with mixed driving and hitting the interstate to and from work 60 miles everyday, I usually hit somewhere between 450 and 600 miles before an active regen. One regen before my last one was 365 miles, lots of in town stop and go driving on that one.

Dang man, breaking my heart. I hope not but I bet you're right. It's felt too good to be true so far.
 

Units

Active Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2023
Messages
178
Reaction score
155
Location
South Ms.
Dang man, breaking my heart. I hope not but I bet you're right. It's felt too good to be true so far.
I’m not saying I’m having problems. If I tow my TT, gauge jumps down to zero and stays there. The one I just had at right around 350 miles was because I did a lot of stop and go running around. My oil level has not increased really, maybe a bit, but it is STILL well within the safe range. I’m convinced it is operating as the manufacturer intended and I love my truck.
 

batman900

Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2023
Messages
57
Reaction score
91
I’m not saying I’m having problems. If I tow my TT, gauge jumps down to zero and stays there. The one I just had at right around 350 miles was because I did a lot of stop and go running around. My oil level has not increased really, maybe a bit, but it is STILL well within the safe range. I’m convinced it is operating as the manufacturer intended and I love my truck.
That's good to hear, I love mine too. Only loved one other vehicle and it was 21 Tundra Trail modded up and shouldn't have sold. Missed it every day until this RAM.
 

scdo

Active Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2022
Messages
134
Reaction score
90
Put some miles on it, that will change. I’ve got right at 7k on my ‘23, it did like yours and didn’t seem to move past zero at first. Now with mixed driving and hitting the interstate to and from work 60 miles everyday, I usually hit somewhere between 450 and 600 miles before an active regen. One regen before my last one was 365 miles, lots of in town stop and go driving on that one.
Is that enough to cause dilution or is consensus that that’s totally normal / non problematic given those driving conditions?
 

kfscoll

Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2022
Messages
43
Reaction score
34
It doesn’t sound like your truck has an issue. Everything you mentioned seems like it’s reasonably correct. It’s been my experience that the active regeneration cycle at low speed stop & go isn’t as effective. The fluctuations in throttle, speed, and exhaust flow create too much instability for a really good clean out. The cycle will still bring down soot load (which is important) but it doesn’t work as well as when the truck is at highway speed for the whole duration. It’s almost inevitable that, if you have a soot load based regen cycle in stop and go, your soot load will return rather quickly after it has completed. I’ve found that, if you’re able to operate the truck in a manner that keeps the soot load at 0% regularly, when you do accumulate some, it’s very easy to get it to passively regenerate out. Conversely, once that first 12-13% gets established in there, it takes considerably longer for passive regeneration to work it out.

As far as issues are concerned, the frequent regeneration is definitely concerning. It’s pretty hard to get their arms around this issue when there are so many different reasons why a truck will have the problem. One of the main issues (I believe) is the overall change in the DOC / DPF from the 2013-2018 trucks to the current generation. The overall system was changed in order to meet tighter regulations. The older systems were much higher flowing. This means they regenerated much easier. The newer ones are much tighter in terms of what they capture and how they flow, leading to faster soot loading and more regeneration cycles being necessary if the truck isn’t being operated in a manner consistent with the parameters necessary for passive regeneration.

As much as I would love to see the system setup to be more efficient, I’m not sure that’s possible. The more research and studying I do, the more apt I am to believe that this is simply one of those “you can’t have your cake and eat it too” scenarios. A lot of the struggles we’re experiencing are solvable, while others are not. These are the same pains that the commercial truck industry had to deal with for years, especially in situations where the trucks are not used in line haul, but local delivery. It’s also the main reason why the majority of ambulance manufacturers have resorted back to gasoline power for their units.

These trucks simply are not able to be used in the manner we have used them before in the past. That ability to leisurely drive the truck and use it as a daily conveyance has been mandated and regulated down by ever-narrowing emissions regulations. You can still daily them, but you have to augment your drive cycle routine with more highway or loaded operation. There’s really no way to make (tune) the truck so that it can be driven in a low speed application regularly, and then also perform as needed when towing. If that was truly possible, it would already be done. All three manufacturers are having the same issues when it comes to emissions, and all three are fully aware that a large percentage of their buyers do not use the truck in a working capacity 100% of the time. If it was possible to for them to give you your cake and let you eat it, it would already be done. It simply isn’t possible.

Now, that being the case, we owners can indeed still “make it work”. We just have to change how we operate. If that’s not an option, or the individual is unwilling, there’s only two outcomes: deal with constant emissions related issues, or purchase a gas powered truck.

Trust me when I say that’s not the ultimatum I want for anyone in this community. However, that is indeed where we all are.
I agree completely. Once I got those two segments on the DPF gauge burnt off through passive regeneration and then refueled with my favorite Marathon fuel, it‘s been behaving itself again. I’ve put about 100 miles on since I refueled (with very mixed driving) and maybe 150 since the DPF gauge dropped back to zero and it hasn’t moved off of zero since. I just have to remind myself that the way to passively regenerate is not only to drive on the highway, but to avoid doing it during rush hour when maintaining 75+ mph is damned near a fool’s errand. And it seems crucial to let the truck completely get up to full operating temperature (which i judge by the coolant and oil temps both being at least 185) before starting a 75+ mph run on the highway…or it’ll just soot up again.

Thanks for all your feedback - I really do appreciate it!
 
Last edited:

mbarber84

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 10, 2021
Messages
2,110
Reaction score
3,188
Location
Washington County, PA
Is that enough to cause dilution or is consensus that that’s totally normal / non problematic given those driving conditions?
Fuel dilution in the engine oil will occur no matter what. It’s a byproduct of the method by which these trucks actively regenerate the DPF. The goal is to keep those active regeneration cycles to a minimum as much as possible. In the case of our trucks, bare minimum would be a truck that only sees an active regeneration on the 24 engine hour cycle. I do regular oil analysis at every oil change. On my last oil change, I had 3.6% fuel dilution in 12,724 miles on the oil. That interval included some frequent regeneration issues that were corrected roughly half way through that oil’s life. On the oil change interval prior, I had 6.4% fuel dilution in 11,134 miles. That oil interval contained a fair amount of regen frequency due to issues I was having. I’m about a third of the way through a fresh oil change and will be pulling a sample at roughly 5-6k to see if the fuel dilution is on track for the same numbers as before, or if it has reduced now that I have fully corrected my regen frequency problem. As a point of reference: I am using Amsoil Signature Series Max Duty 10w30 engine oil. Amsoil says up to 3.4% fuel dilution is “acceptable”. After that, you begin the downward slide in the oil’s ability to perform as designed.
 

jebruns

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2022
Messages
696
Reaction score
444
So why can't we just hollow out the DPF, put on a "test pipe" in its place, etc? I'm not advocating that, especially for folks that have to be emissions tested. Just wondering why I've not heard of that as a possible "fix" for this issue.
 

mbarber84

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 10, 2021
Messages
2,110
Reaction score
3,188
Location
Washington County, PA
So why can't we just hollow out the DPF, put on a "test pipe" in its place, etc? I'm not advocating that, especially for folks that have to be emissions tested. Just wondering why I've not heard of that as a possible "fix" for this issue.
Because there are sensors in the emissions system that monitor the difference between inlet and outlet pressure on the DPF, as well as temperatures at various stages, NOx values, and also a soot sensor at the very end that checks to make sure no soot is escaping to atmosphere.

If it was as simple as hollowing out the DPF, there wouldn’t be a billion dollar black market emissions defeat industry.
 

Riddick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
796
Reaction score
1,189
Location
Yorktown, VA
I have been following these threads very closely since I have a 22 CTD. I feel very fortunate the only slight issue I have experienced is from using the wrong air filter. With the wrong filter installed my truck was doing an active regen every 100 miles or so. Whenever my truck went into regen it was always when it was warming up. It did not matter if the truck was in the city or cruising on the highway, I would watch the DPF gauge slowly creep up. Once the engine was fully warmed up I would never see the gauge move. Since swapping back to an OEM air filter mine has been flawless. Thanks to this forum I knew what to look for and caught the frequent regen issue right away!

I have accumulated just over 1100 miles over the last 3 months and my truck currently sits around 15300 or so. Prior to moving in July my truck saw about 90% highway, since moving to VA I find myself doing a lot of short trips and have not towed anything since October. The speed limits in VA are generally 55-65 which is not ideal by any means for passive regens. In OH I would always set the cruise on 75 and the truck ran perfect. With the amount of traffic here its hard to maintain anything over 70. Since moving in July I have been waiting to see my regen interval increase due to my driving style change but it has not. My wife has been out of town recently so I have been playing bus driver for the kids and shuttling them around for their sports. To my surprise my DPF gauge still has not budged off of 0 and I have about 300 miles since my last active regen. I do have about 5 short trips planned this week so we will see if my gauge starts to move. Hopefully I will be ok, but I know I'm playing with fire driving the truck in this manner. If the weather holds out we plan to get the dirt bikes out this weekend so we should be able to do some light towing.

I am running emissions on tuning from Calibrated Power, not sure if this impacts how often I regen or not. Calibrated says their tuning will reduce the amount of regens you experience, I don't have data supporting this claim but the truck 100% runs quieter, smoother, and way more power.

EDIT: For those considering deleting your truck the cost for tuning has come down. There are a few companies who have found a way to tune the stock ECM. Another member on here shared a link with me from thedieseldudes under their full bundle packages which states they can reflash the stock ECU. I reached out to a well known shop and they confirmed it works. The price is still high but its cheaper than the route I went of swapping my ECU, overtime we should see the price drop more as more tuners come on board.
 
Last edited:

Units

Active Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2023
Messages
178
Reaction score
155
Location
South Ms.
So if I’m not mistaken, the EGR valve works to cool the exhaust and create less emissions? So theoretically if you install an EGR delete, will that in turn increase the exhaust temperature and lead to quicker / better passive regen and less auto regen? Maybe also add a tuner?
@mbarber84 @AH64ID
You guys have any thoughts on that?
 

mbarber84

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 10, 2021
Messages
2,110
Reaction score
3,188
Location
Washington County, PA
So if I’m not mistaken, the EGR valve works to cool the exhaust and create less emissions? So theoretically if you install and EGR delete, will that in turn increase the exhaust temperature and lead to quicker / better passive regen and less auto regen? Maybe also add a tuner?
@mbarber84 @AH64ID
You guys have any thoughts on that?
not sure you can eliminate EGR by itself. You have to meet NOx emissions targets and that requires a combination of EGR and SCR. I think it would be silly to try and eliminate one part of the emissions architecture but leave the rest in place.
 

Units

Active Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2023
Messages
178
Reaction score
155
Location
South Ms.
I have been following these threads very closely since I have a 22 CTD. I feel very fortunate the only slight issue I have experienced is from using the wrong air filter. With the wrong filter installed my truck was doing an active regen every 100 miles or so. Whenever my truck went into regen it was always when it was warming up. It did not matter if the truck was in the city or cruising on the highway, I would watch the DPF gauge slowly creep up. Once the engine was fully warmed up I would never see the gauge move. Since swapping back to an OEM air filter mine has been flawless. Thanks to this forum I knew what to look for and caught the frequent regen issue right away!

I have accumulated just over 1100 miles over the last 3 months and my truck currently sits around 15300 or so. Prior to moving in July my truck saw about 90% highway, since moving to VA I find myself doing a lot of short trips and have not towed anything since October. The speed limits in VA are generally 55-65 which is not ideal by any means for passive regens. In OH I would always set the cruise on 75 and the truck ran perfect. With the amount of traffic here its hard to maintain anything over 70. Since moving in July I have been waiting to see my regen interval increase due to my driving style change but it has not. My wife has been out of town recently so I have been playing bus driver for the kids and shuttling them around for their sports. To my surprise my DPF gauge still has not budged off of 0 and I have about 300 miles since my last active regen. I do have about 5 short trips planned this week so we will see if my gauge starts to move. Hopefully I will be ok, but I know I'm playing with fire driving the truck in this manner. If the weather holds out we plan to get the dirt bikes out this weekend so we should be able to do some light towing.

I am running emissions on tuning from Calibrated Power, not sure if this impacts how often I regen or not. Calibrated says their tuning will reduce the amount of regens you experience, I don't have data supporting this claim but the truck 100% runs quieter, smoother, and way more power.

EDIT: For those considering deleting your truck the cost for tuning has come down. There are a few companies who have found a way to tune the stock ECM. Another member on here shared a link with me from thedieseldudes under their full bundle packages which states they can reflash the stock ECU. I reached out to a well known shop and they confirmed it works. The price is still high but its cheaper than the route I went of swapping my ECU, overtime we should see the price drop more as more tuners come on board.
Where did you purchase your tuner from?
 

AH64ID

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 5, 2021
Messages
3,337
Reaction score
3,130
So if I’m not mistaken, the EGR valve works to cool the exhaust and create less emissions? So theoretically if you install an EGR delete, will that in turn increase the exhaust temperature and lead to quicker / better passive regen and less auto regen? Maybe also add a tuner?
@mbarber84 @AH64ID
You guys have any thoughts on that?

EGR reduces the oxygen in the cylinder, which reduces peak temperature and pressure and in return we get lower NOx.

During active regen the EGR is shut off, the timing retarded, and the turbo vanes opened up. The combo creates higher EGT’s, but also less effeminacy. I’m fairly certain the EGR shutting off is because we don’t want to ingest that raw fuel that is for active regen and not for any increase in EGT’s.

You would have to add a tuner to do a clean EGR delete. I know that the 10-12 trucks ran fine, with a CEL, if the EGR valve was unplugged. I don’t know about the 13+ trucks.

Something I just thought of is that my 18 would shut the EGR off above ~65% load and just use DEF to control NOx. The 22 doesn’t do that, it uses EGR at basically all engine loads. I wonder if that will change for the early trucks with the recall. Overall my 22 uses less EGR and more DEF thou.

It’s entirely possibly to have after treatment only and no EGR, but not sure that the system would fit in a pickup and meet emissions standards.

Had I ever tuned my 18 all I would have done was shut the EGR off and let the system do what it wanted with the SCR.
 

jebruns

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2022
Messages
696
Reaction score
444
Because there are sensors in the emissions system that monitor the difference between inlet and outlet pressure on the DPF, as well as temperatures at various stages, NOx values, and also a soot sensor at the very end that checks to make sure no soot is escaping to atmosphere.

If it was as simple as hollowing out the DPF, there wouldn’t be a billion dollar black market emissions defeat industry.
Figured it was something like that. Thanks.
 

deocder

New Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2021
Messages
21
Reaction score
13
Two days ago I received a UConnect update. Concurrently I’ve been driving around with an active P2459 code planning to go to a dealer to record it. The code has been active for weeks. It be been clearing these myself but decided that it was time to have the dealer awknoldege these codes. Today I noticed the code has cleared itself. Coincidence that it’s occurred just after the UConnect update? Are these systems connected?
 

Units

Active Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2023
Messages
178
Reaction score
155
Location
South Ms.
Two days ago I received a UConnect update. Concurrently I’ve been driving around with an active P2459 code planning to go to a dealer to record it. The code has been active for weeks. It be been clearing these myself but decided that it was time to have the dealer awknoldege these codes. Today I noticed the code has cleared itself. Coincidence that it’s occurred just after the UConnect update? Are these systems connected?
Ok, tinfoil hat time o_O
I was pondering the very idea the other day. I’m not sure the 2 systems are connected. Who knows.
 

Riddick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
796
Reaction score
1,189
Location
Yorktown, VA
Two days ago I received a UConnect update. Concurrently I’ve been driving around with an active P2459 code planning to go to a dealer to record it. The code has been active for weeks. It be been clearing these myself but decided that it was time to have the dealer awknoldege these codes. Today I noticed the code has cleared itself. Coincidence that it’s occurred just after the UConnect update? Are these systems connected?
UConnect is infotainment only and not connected to the ECM. Your ECM triggered the P2459 code which is from your truck regenerating to much. This is a very common fault code and it can be triggered from having the wrong air filter installed, wrong MAF sensor, to many idle hours and city driving (short trips). This thread is a good read with lots of information regarding this subject. Even though your fault code has cleared I would start by verifying you have an OEM mopar/fleetguard air filter installed and also check your oil level, excessive regens can lead to fuel diluting your oil which can be catastrophic to your engine.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top