Regens at alarming rate!

[mbarber84]

Ah, a classic Catch-22. You must essentially break the law for a passive regen, but you can't have a passive regen if you don't break the law (towing a large load notwithstanding). Only the government can mandate such absurdity.

With the introduction of emissions, these trucks were effectively legislated from being practical passenger vehicles and became purpose built hauling vehicles overnight. And they’re tuned as such. (They were never really practical passenger vehicles but at least we used to be able to get away with it without emissions). The increased speed is just a “work-around” to get by without issues. If it’s not within your ability to do so, you should to look at moving to gas power. There never will be a way to tune them to be able to passively regenerate while unloaded at lower speed without greatly sacrificing fuel efficiency and performance. They wouldn’t meet any of the targeted fuel efficiency criteria.

 

[jasmith348]

With the introduction of emissions, these trucks were effectively legislated from being practical passenger vehicles and became purpose built hauling vehicles overnight. And they’re tuned as such. (They were never really practical passenger vehicles but at least we used to be able to get away with it without emissions). The increased speed is just a “work-around” to get by without issues. If it’s not within your ability to do so, you should to look at moving to gas power. There never will be a way to tune them to be able to passively regenerate while unloaded at lower speed without greatly sacrificing fuel efficiency and performance. They wouldn’t meet any of the targeted fuel efficiency criteria.

That may be true, then Ram (and I guess Ford and GM) should label, market and sell them as such. Its nuts to pay 100k for a vehicle and not be able to drive it around town.

 

[mbarber84]

That may be true, then Ram (and I guess Ford and GM) should label, market and sell them as such. Its nuts to pay 100k for a vehicle and not be able to drive it around town.

They are marketed specifically for the purpose they’re built for. Which is towing or hauling. When’s the last time you saw a Ram advertisement with a 3/4 or 1 ton truck full of people driving around town admiring Christmas lights? The other manufacturers are the same way. These are purpose built trucks designed and tuned for hauling and towing. Nothing more. It’s never been anything less. The fact that they’ve become a “fad” doesn’t mean that they can be effectively utilized outside of their primary purpose. The manufacturers can’t control what people do with the trucks once they’re sold, but they are indeed marketed for their primary purpose.

 

[CaptainMike]

Ha, funny, sort of ... Anyway, dealer is putting the new part # MAF sensor on my truck (approved by RAM/Star). It seems like it maybe helped some folks.

I sure hope so. It didn't help mine at all and tomorrow they are removing the fuel pump for evaluation.

 

[jasmith348]

They are marketed specifically for the purpose they’re built for. Which is towing or hauling. When’s the last time you saw a Ram advertisement with a 3/4 or 1 ton truck full of people driving around town admiring Christmas lights? The other manufacturers are the same way. These are purpose built trucks designed and tuned for hauling and towing. Nothing more. It’s never been anything less. The fact that they’ve become a “fad” doesn’t mean that they can be effectively utilized outside of their primary purpose. The manufacturers can’t control what people do with the trucks once they’re sold, but they are indeed marketed for their primary purpose.

Yeah but they really aren’t. Go to any dealership and see what they say.

My truck has 31k miles on it. Half of those towing. I didn’t tow for about 3 months and bam, regen issues.

 

[jasmith348]

I sure hope so. It didn't help mine at all and tomorrow they are removing the fuel pump for evaluation

I sure hope so. It didn't help mine at all and tomorrow they are removing the fuel pump for evaluation.

How do they think the fuel pump is related? Too much or too little fuel?

 

[jasmith348]

Yeah but they really aren’t. Go to any dealership and see what they say.

My truck has 31k miles on it. Half of those towing. I didn’t tow for about 3 months and bam, regen issues.

Also I don’t really blame Ram that much. The gov’t has been trying to kill these trucks for years. That said, seems like most dealerships simply don’t have the desire or the ability to work on these diesel engines well.

 

[CaptainMike]

With the introduction of emissions, these trucks were effectively legislated from being practical passenger vehicles and became purpose built hauling vehicles overnight. And they’re tuned as such. (They were never really practical passenger vehicles but at least we used to be able to get away with it without emissions). The increased speed is just a “work-around” to get by without issues. If it’s not within your ability to do so, you should to look at moving to gas power. There never will be a way to tune them to be able to passively regenerate while unloaded at lower speed without greatly sacrificing fuel efficiency and performance. They wouldn’t meet any of the targeted fuel efficiency criteria.

If this is the mindset of the government and the manufacturer then I do not see a bright future for these very expensive, over-priced even, vehicles. I have owned diesel powered vehicles for 40 years and have never, ever had the problems I'm having with this '22. I use my trucks for work, pleasure, and daily driving and have never had these issues. It is ludicrous and a bit condescending to be told that in order for this vehicle to function properly it needs to be hitched to a wagon or driven at excessive speeds. This should not be acceptable to anyone, regardless of 'why'. I had no regen issues before my truck hit around 18,000 miles. The dealership/STAR has fiddled with a number of systems and tests without success so clearly there is something critically wrong with it (they're pulling the hp fuel pump tomorrow). And not one time has anyone asked me about my driving habits or vehicle use. I hope that when/if it is fixed it will function as well as it did before within my personal driving parameters. If not, I'll be moving to a more useful, sensible and reliable option such as a lightly used pre-19 CTD.

 

[CaptainMike]

How do they think the fuel pump is related? Too much or too little fuel?

A bad seal that is somehow pumping fuel into the crankcase where some of it vaporizes and is pumped out through the CCV with the other gases into the exhaust system where it overwhelms the DPF triggering frequent regens. At least that's how it was explained to me.

Coincidentally, I ran into a friend today who was having lunch with another fellow. My friend was explaining my regen dilemma to his companion and before he could finish his friend said it sounded like a bad seal in the high pressure fuel pump. I guess I'll know more tomorrow.

 

[jasmith348]

If this is the mindset of the government and the manufacturer then I do not see a bright future for these very expensive, over-priced even, vehicles. I have owned diesel powered vehicles for 40 years and have never, ever had the problems I'm having with this '22. I use my trucks for work, pleasure, and daily driving and have never had these issues. It is ludicrous and a bit condescending to be told that in order for this vehicle to function properly it needs to be hitched to a wagon or driven at excessive speeds. This should not be acceptable to anyone, regardless of 'why'. I had no regen issues before my truck hit around 18,000 miles. The dealership/STAR has fiddled with a number of systems and tests without success so clearly there is something critically wrong with it (they're pulling the hp fuel pump tomorrow). And not one time has anyone asked me about my driving habits or vehicle use. I hope that when/if it is fixed it will function as well as it did before within my personal driving parameters. If not, I'll be moving to a more useful, sensible and reliable option such as a lightly used pre-19 CTD.

I agree. If this is how Ram feels, then they can go ahead and cut production by 50% or more as very few will need these trucks or put up with the BS of a 100k paper weight. Also might need to tell the RV makers to lighten everything up so that a gasser can pull them.

Ram has screwed something up. That happens, it does amaze me they can’t seem to figure out what.

 

[jasmith348]

A bad seal that is somehow pumping fuel into the crankcase where some of it vaporizes and is pumped out through the CCV with the other gases into the exhaust system where it overwhelms the DPF triggering frequent regens. At least that's how it was explained to me.

Coincidentally, I ran into a friend today who was having lunch with another fellow. My friend was explaining my regen dilemma to his companion and before he could finish his friend said it sounded like a bad seal in the high pressure fuel pump. I guess I'll know more tomorrow.

Thanks. I get mine back this week after 3 months at the dealer. Will keep this in mind if it has to go back.

My dealer remains steadfast that most of this issue will be fixed with a software update. They may be wrong, but they have been telling me that since August 2023.

 

[Jay P]

A bad seal that is somehow pumping fuel into the crankcase where some of it vaporizes and is pumped out through the CCV with the other gases into the exhaust system where it overwhelms the DPF triggering frequent regens. At least that's how it was explained to me.

Coincidentally, I ran into a friend today who was having lunch with another fellow. My friend was explaining my regen dilemma to his companion and before he could finish his friend said it sounded like a bad seal in the high pressure fuel pump. I guess I'll know more tomorrow.

I wonder if the modified CP3 is the real problem. The original CP3 was a 1600 bar pump. The CP4 the modified CP3 replaced is a 2000+ bar pump. Maybe it can't handle the higher pressures that the CP4 produced long term.
FWIW Ford uses the updated CP4 and GM switched to a Denso system back in 2019 (both are 2000+ bar systems). While there are GM & Ford people complaining of regen issues, it's not to same extent as the 19 and newer RAMs.

 

[CaptainMike]

I wonder if the modified CP3 is the real problem. The original CP3 was a 1600 bar pump. The CP4 the modified CP3 replaced is a 2000+ bar pump. Maybe it can't handle the higher pressures that the CP4 produced long term.
FWIW Ford uses the updated CP4 and GM switched to a Denso system back in 2019 (both are 2000+ bar systems). While there are GM & Ford people complaining of regen issues, it's not to same extent as the 19 and newer RAMs.

I'll ask the mechanic tomorrow.

 

[mbarber84]

I wonder if the modified CP3 is the real problem. The original CP3 was a 1600 bar pump. The CP4 the modified CP3 replaced is a 2000+ bar pump. Maybe it can't handle the higher pressures that the CP4 produced long term.
FWIW Ford uses the updated CP4 and GM switched to a Denso system back in 2019 (both are 2000+ bar systems). While there are GM & Ford people complaining of regen issues, it's not to same extent as the 19 and newer RAMs.

I would suspect that, if the pump wasn’t capable of handling the working pressure for which it is intended to operate, we would be seeing CP-ISB21S3 HPFP failures in droves by now. We’re nearly 5 model years out since that pump was adopted into service. HPFP failures 21+ are not common, as is to be expected with a more reliable pump. If the pump seal fails, it’s likely just a bad component, as is possible with anything manufactured.

If the faulty seal is dumping fuel into the crankcase, that will absolutely create the possibility for frequent regeneration and obvious fuel dilution issues in the oil. That should be a fairly easy problem to identify and fix.

 

[mbarber84]

Thanks. I get mine back this week after 3 months at the dealer. Will keep this in mind if it has to go back.

My dealer remains steadfast that most of this issue will be fixed with a software update. They may be wrong, but they have been telling me that since August 2023.

What software update are they claiming will fix your regeneration frequency issue?

 

[Units]

What software update are they claiming will fix your regeneration frequency issue?

The million dollar question……….

 

[mbarber84]

If this is the mindset of the government and the manufacturer then I do not see a bright future for these very expensive, over-priced even, vehicles. I have owned diesel powered vehicles for 40 years and have never, ever had the problems I'm having with this '22. I use my trucks for work, pleasure, and daily driving and have never had these issues. It is ludicrous and a bit condescending to be told that in order for this vehicle to function properly it needs to be hitched to a wagon or driven at excessive speeds. This should not be acceptable to anyone, regardless of 'why'. I had no regen issues before my truck hit around 18,000 miles. The dealership/STAR has fiddled with a number of systems and tests without success so clearly there is something critically wrong with it (they're pulling the hp fuel pump tomorrow). And not one time has anyone asked me about my driving habits or vehicle use. I hope that when/if it is fixed it will function as well as it did before within my personal driving parameters. If not, I'll be moving to a more useful, sensible and reliable option such as a lightly used pre-19 CTD.

22 of those 40 years were trouble free because you had no emissions to contend with. The game changed in 2007. Even then, it was much easier to get away with more casual driving between 2007 and 2018 because the emissions systems were higher flowing and less restrictive. As the Tier emissions continuously got more stringent, the noose ultimately tightens on what we can / can’t do with these. That was inevitable.

I agree. If this is how Ram feels, then they can go ahead and cut production by 50% or more as very few will need these trucks or put up with the BS of a 100k paper weight. Also might need to tell the RV makers to lighten everything up so that a gasser can pull them.

Ram has screwed something up. That happens, it does amaze me they can’t seem to figure out what.

Millions upon millions of these trucks are sold and used for the sole purpose of pulling trailers and hauling heavy loads. When they’re used solely for their designed purpose, regeneration frequency issues are practically nonexistent. The ones that do demonstrate problems in those duty cycles are easily attributable to a component failure.

 

[CaptainMike]

I would suspect that, if the pump wasn’t capable of handling the working pressure for which it is intended to operate, we would be seeing CP-ISB21S3 HPFP failures in droves by now. We’re nearly 5 model years out since that pump was adopted into service. HPFP failures 21+ are not common, as is to be expected with a more reliable pump. If the pump seal fails, it’s likely just a bad component, as is possible with anything manufactured.

I the faulty seal is dumping fuel into the crankcase, that will absolutely create the possibility for frequent regeneration and obvious fuel dilution issues in the oil. That should be a fairly easy problem to identify and fix.

One would think, but it's definitely way downstream on their troubleshooting algorithm.

 

[mbarber84]

One would think, but it's definitely way downstream on their troubleshooting algorithm.

Probably because it is not a common failure.
Dealer warranty work will almost always be lackluster and hurried. It pays half the normal rate and Ram’s flow process for diagnostic isn’t exactly the most detailed. The issue gets more complex (and worse) when you mix those two elements with a tech that is less experienced or fluent with these diesels. I lost track of how many people I’ve spoken to in the last year and a half. Between the Aisin K1 issue and these regen frequency trucks, I’m probably well over 500 individuals I’ve “met” in the course of trying to help them figure out the issues. One of the common complaints that’s shared is that dealerships are weeks, if not months, out on service work. Often they’re short staffed. I’ve had numerous instances where the dealers only diesel tech has just recently left to find other employment. (One literally walked off the job with a truck on the rack disassembled)
There are a multitude of issues that compile to make these truck failures even more complex, and much of it is traced back to how the company itself operates.

 

[LegendaryLawman]

What even hurts more is the EPA ran off most companies making deletes. They are legal in Canada (shocking). Most of the US doesn’t smog vehicles so it allowed enthusiasts to make these CTD great again. Unfortunately it gets harder and harder, and pushes people to buy new vehicles every time the warranty runs out. HD wise, the hemi is fine but you want to get into a 1500, your stuck with a BS e-torque- 2,000$ generator, expensive batteries, more systems to fail- you can thank the US EPA/ CA CARB for that.