Regen?

[Will_T]

The Edge %soot level PID looks to be the same as "DPF Regen Trigger" on your chart. And regen on or off, the same as "DPF Regen Status". Mine also seems to regen every 23-25 hours, regardless of how it is driven or idled.

Ah. I see. I think. So you are saying the 100% reading you are getting is not actually saying your DPF is 100% clogged, but is saying you are at the trigger point for a regen when that PID reaches 100%? So that is just telling you how close to the next regen you are getting. And, like mine, that regen is going to happen even if your DPF soot level is near zero. So if I put up my "DPF Regen Trigger" on my Banks, as I get close to the 24 hour mark, that % readout would approach 100%. Am I getting that right now, or no?

 

[John Jensen]

Ah. I see. I think. So you are saying the 100% reading you are getting is not actually saying your DPF is 100% clogged, but is saying you are at the trigger point for a regen when that PID reaches 100%? So that is just telling you how close to the next regen you are getting. And, like mine, that regen is going to happen even if your DPF soot level is near zero. So if I put up my "DPF Regen Trigger" on my Banks as I get close to the 24 hour mark, it that % readout would approach 100%. Am I getting that right now, or no?

You are close, but not quite

When it reaches 100% it starts the regen, it's not a warning that it's getting ready to regen. Tthe 6.7 factory trigger point is 80% full. 80% factory reads out as 100% on the Edge. The Ecodiesel factory trigger point is 65-66% which also reads out as 100% on the Edge.

Regarding a regen even if your DPF soot level is near zero, I am not sure. The fact that many report that it regens every 24 hours makes me think it will regen regardless of soot level every 24 hours. And the 80% applies to if it reaches that level before the 24 hours come around. Just my thinking.

I'm not familiar with the Banks, it could report a trigger at 80% (the factory trigger point) or it could act like the Edge and call it 100%. Edge used to trigger at the factory numbers, 66% Eco and 80% 6.7. Apparently, too many people thought or were complaining about regening too early. So Edge changed to 100% trigger readouts. Make sense?

I would not trust the 24-hour timing, as so much depends on driving habits and conditions. Plus, you may reach 100% before you reach 24 hours. If you have room, I would have that PID active all the time. When on the freeway, traveling long distances, at high speeds, or under load, I have watched the %soot level go down because the passive regens were so effective. That would lengthen the time for an Active regen.

Keep asking, you are exercising my mind, I need that at this old age

Edit:
Here are some of my notes on the subject, may help. Ignore how it is structured, I had to convert a file to PDF to send, don't want to correct it all

 

[Will_T]

Yes, my DPF gauge will read zero, but my CTS3 tells me it is at 100%.
The Edge is reading the EGT2 sensor located at the DOC Outlet (DPF Filter Inlet). I don't know what the EVIC Gauge reads or how it computes. All I know is my gauge has never gone above zero.

The Edge %soot level PID looks to be the same as "DPF Regen Trigger" on your chart. And regen on or off, the same as "DPF Regen Status". Mine also seems to regen every 23-25 hours, regardless of how it is driven or idled.

I called customer service for these and here is what I was told. The Edge "soot level" is indeed reading the same thing as the Banks Regen Trigger. But it is not really reading soot level at all. It is simply telling you how close to the next regen you are, and that is calculated on time. This makes sense because if the Edge was really reading soot level, a regen would be called for long before soot load was 100%. For example, when I am at 23-1/2 hours since the last regen I know I am about to start another regen. If I was to hook an Edge CTS3 up at that point it would tell me that what they call soot level would be at 96% or something. When the my truck got to 24 hours, the CTS would say 100% and a regen would start. I think Edge just calls it soot level so that they get fewer phone calls from people looking for soot level % than Banks does because Banks calls it Regen Trigger %. Banks told me that their engineers are trying to figure out, but have not yet solved, how Ram senses when a regen might be needed before 24 hours. Obviously there is some level of soot in the DPF that will trigger a regen regardless of hours of engine run time. (Some have speculated on 50 or 60%). But Banks can not find a PID or anything to read from that would give you that number.

I told the Banks rep that I even though my Ram OEM evic gauge always reads zero, I had seen some post online that theirs does read higher percentages at times. He said he had not talked to anyone who says that... Everyone he has had calls from about this tells him their evic gauge is always at zero. So right now it appears there is actually no way to really know the soot level in your DPF. Seems like kind of a mess to me. But for now my truck just does a regen every 24 hours on the money and my DPF gauge always shows 0%.

edit: I did not see your reply above before I summarized my calls with tech support. What you say makes sense but is a little different than what I have been able to find out. Who knows. I do know that I have had 6 regens now. Every one happened at exactly 24 hours. Not even one hour + or -. So maybe it would happen sooner if soot level got high enough. But 24 hours seems to be the limit. Mine will do it by then every time and maybe I have just never had a soot level high enough to trigger a regen before 24 hours. But I would not ever know that for sure as there is noting that Banks or the iDash reads that truly gives you the % of soot in your DPF.

 

[Will_T]

When on the freeway, traveling long distances, at high speeds, or under load, I have watched the %soot level go down because the passive regens were so effective.

Now if I saw this on mine, it would be the smoking gun so to speak as to how this is working. I think I will find a spot to always have the trigger % displayed and see if I can ever catch it going down. If I do, then we will know for sure that Banks is not just monitoring engine hours to equate 100% to 24 hours, but is somehow sensing actual soot load.

Isn't this stuff fun though! I would rather watch my gauges when driving, than have a conversation with any of my passengers. Weird huh?

 

[Darmichar]

Banks told me that their engineers are trying to figure out, but have not yet solved, how Ram senses when a regen might be needed before 24 hours. Obviously there is some level of soot in the DPF that will trigger a regen regardless of hours of engine run time. (Some have speculated on 50 or 60%). But Banks can not find a PID or anything to read from that would give you that number.

If these aftertreatments have differential pressure sensors, that's usually the primary indicator of soot load.

 

[John Jensen]

I called customer service for these and here is what I was told. The Edge "soot level" is indeed reading the same thing as the Banks Regen Trigger. But it is not really reading soot level at all. It is simply telling you how close to the next regen you are, and that is calculated on time. This makes sense because if the Edge was really reading soot level, a regen would be called for long before soot load was 100%. For example, when I am at 23-1/2 hours since the last regen I know I am about to start another regen. If I was to hook an Edge CTS3 up at that point it would tell me that what they call soot level would be at 96% or something. When the my truck got to 24 hours, the CTS would say 100% and a regen would start. I think Edge just calls it soot level so that they get fewer phone calls from people looking for soot level % than Banks does because Banks calls it Regen Trigger %. Banks told me that their engineers are trying to figure out, but have not yet solved, how Ram senses when a regen might be needed before 24 hours. Obviously there is some level of soot in the DPF that will trigger a regen regardless of hours of engine run time. (Some have speculated on 50 or 60%). But Banks can not find a PID or anything to read from that would give you that number.

I told the Banks rep that I even though my Ram OEM evic gauge always reads zero, I had seen some post online that theirs does read higher percentages at times. He said he had not talked to anyone who says that... Everyone he has had calls from about this tells him their evic gauge is always at zero. So right now it appears there is actually no way to really know the soot level in your DPF. Seems like kind of a mess to me. But for now my truck just does a regen every 24 hours on the money and my DPF gauge always shows 0%.

edit: I did not see your reply above before I summarized my calls with tech support. What you say makes sense but is a little different than what I have been able to find out. Who knows. I do know that I have had 6 regens now. Every one happened at exactly 24 hours. Not even one hour + or -. So maybe it would happen sooner if soot level got high enough. But 24 hours seems to be the limit. Mine will do it by then every time and maybe I have just never had a soot level high enough to trigger a regen before 24 hours. But I would not ever know that for sure as there is noting that Banks or the iDash reads that truly gives you the % of soot in your DPF.

Interesting for sure.
Would think the Banks engineers would be more knowledgeable.
Soot level is a measurement of DPF pressures and converted to % soot. When I first used a CTS3 on my HD it went into an active regen when it hit 80%, I wasn't tracking hours then so have no idea of the hours. When I first started tracking hours, it regened at 123 hours and the Edge was updated to read 100%

 

[Nd79]

[QUOTE="Will_T, post: 182015, member: 8297"

I told the Banks rep that I even though my Ram OEM evic gauge always reads zero, I had seen some post online that theirs does read higher percentages at times. He said he had not talked to anyone who says that... Everyone he has had calls from about this tells him their evic gauge is always at zero. So right now it appears there is actually no way to really know the soot level in your DPF.

[/QUOTE]


I have seen my DPF gauge above zero, but only through the winter when I wasn't towing nearly as often and doing short trips to take the kids to school. It actually triggered a Regen once when it got up to almost 50% on the EVIC gauge.

I have recently started towing again for work and on the first day my DPF gauge showed a little bit (almost to the 25% mark) but was at zero after a couple hours of work.

My truck definitely seems to know when it is being worked and when it isn't. I'm wondering if it's somewhat of a learning the truck does with the pressure differentials and driving habits similar to how the transmissions learn.

 

[Ostracize]

I have seen my DPF gauge above zero, but only through the winter when I wasn't towing nearly as often and doing short trips to take the kids to school. It actually triggered a Regen once when it got up to almost 50% on the EVIC gauge.

Mine ('21) is the same. I've never seen it above ~40% but it will definitely show above 0%.

@John Jensen ... With EVIC at 0%, if you turn on T/H and 0-65 wot... If it's still at 0% I dunno man, somethings not right.

 

[John Jensen]

Mine ('21) is the same. I've never seen it above ~40% but it will definitely show above 0%.

@John Jensen ... With EVIC at 0%, if you turn on T/H and 0-65 wot... If it's still at 0% I dunno man, somethings not right.

I've never tried that. This last weekend I took a short trip and watched my Edge soot level go from 97% to 100% where it began a regen. I was also watching the EVIC DPF gauge, it never moved off zero. That doesn't bother me because the Edge is giving me the info. I also read where several others do not move off zero either.

 

[Ostracize]

I've never tried that. This last weekend I took a short trip and watched my Edge soot level go from 97% to 100% where it began a regen. I was also watching the EVIC DPF gauge, it never moved off zero. That doesn't bother me because the Edge is giving me the info. I also read where several others do not move off zero either.

Fair enough.. But ya know... For science?

 

[Nd79]

Mine ('21) is the same. I've never seen it above ~40% but it will definitely show above 0%.

@John Jensen ... With EVIC at 0%, if you turn on T/H and 0-65 wot... If it's still at 0% I dunno man, somethings not right.

Mine is also a '21 so maybe the programming is a little different than the previous years

 

[Will_T]

Mine is also a '21 so maybe the programming is a little different than the previous years

Mine is also a 21. Never above zero that I have been able to see. But probably 90+% of its use is towing my TT. However, I remember watching it on the drive home from the dealer. No towing at all on those 700 miles but freeway speeds mostly in 6th gear. When I tow my TT I generally lock out 6th and run in 5th.

 

[Ostracize]

Mine is also a 21. Never above zero that I have been able to see. But probably 90+% of its use is towing my TT. However, I remember watching it on the drive home from the dealer. No towing at all on those 700 miles but freeway speeds mostly in 6th gear. When I tow my TT I generally lock out 6th and run in 5th.

Likely passive regen / higher sustained egt's keep DPF clear(er)... Would still be interested if you also tried the above to see if you get any % to show.. Maybe my truck is just a sooty bit**.

 

[Will_T]

Yes, my DPF gauge will read zero, but my CTS3 tells me it is at 100%.
The Edge is reading the EGT2 sensor located at the DOC Outlet (DPF Filter Inlet). I don't know what the EVIC Gauge reads or how it computes. All I know is my gauge has never gone above zero.

The Edge %soot level PID looks to be the same as "DPF Regen Trigger" on your chart. And regen on or off, the same as "DPF Regen Status". Mine also seems to regen every 23-25 hours, regardless of how it is driven or idled.

This morning I programmed in the "DPF" Regen Trigger and it showed 31% even though my DPF EVIC Gauge is at zero or maybe 1%. I left the truck running in park for a few minutes and it went up to 32%. As I said before, I have only had regens occur so far exactly on 24 engine hour increments. The last one happened one engine hour ago and the engine hours now show 121 hours. I have had 5 regens on 24 hour marks. This proves the Regen Trigger PID is not just sensing the time as I thought it might be, and as the Banks support agent also thought, as one hour since the last regen and 23 hours until the next does not equal 32% of anything. I am going to leave this PID displaying on my iDash and see if the next time I am towing at speed, maybe that Trigger % will actually go down.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Are you saying that your DPF gauge will read zero, but your CTS3 tells you it is at 100%. Are they reading different things? I wonder because I have a Banks iDash and have this parameter displayed:
Emissions Exhaust System PM 1 % Particulate Matter Bank 1 %. (The first one on the list below).
That is always showing about zero just like the Gauge on the truck.
But there is another parameter that I am not sure what it is that I don't have displayed as it has "diagnostics in the description and I thought it was for something else:
Emissions Diagnostics PMF M Monitor - PM Filter
My truck regens every 24 hours or run time but never shows much if anything above zero on the truck's gauge or the Banks. Do you think I am monitoring the same parameter as you are with your CTS3?

Here is a shot of the emission PIDs that Banks has for my truck. See any others that might be relevant to this? Thanks!

View attachment 35221

Any chance you can post the entire PID data on Google Drive or other share?

 

[Will_T]

Any chance you can post the entire PID data on Google Drive or other share?

I had posted it in another thread somewhere. I think as a PDF. If I don't find that one to link to I will get the PDF from my computer and post again.

 

[Will_T]

Here it is: https://hdrams.com/forum/index.php?threads/banks-idash-parameter-list.8036/


If there is any trouble downloading the PDF, pm me and I can email it to you.

 

[Darmichar]

This morning I programmed in the "DPF" Regen Trigger and it showed 31% even though my DPF EVIC Gauge is at zero or maybe 1%. I left the truck running in park for a few minutes and it went up to 32%. As I said before, I have only had regens occur so far exactly on 24 engine hour increments. The last one happened one engine hour ago and the engine hours now show 121 hours. I have had 5 regens on 24 hour marks. This proves the Regen Trigger PID is not just sensing the time as I thought it might be, and as the Banks support agent also thought, as one hour since the last regen and 23 hours until the next does not equal 32% of anything. I am going to leave this PID displaying on my iDash and see if the next time I am towing at speed, maybe that Trigger % will actually go down.

I'd be curious to see the results of that too. Pulling a trailer at highway speeds for an extended period of time should generate enough heat in the exhaust to allow a passive regeneration.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Here it is: https://hdrams.com/forum/index.php?threads/banks-idash-parameter-list.8036/


If there is any trouble downloading the PDF, pm me and I can email it to you.

The raw text would be easier to pull into excel if I could bother you for that if you have it.

 

[John Jensen]

This morning I programmed in the "DPF" Regen Trigger and it showed 31% even though my DPF EVIC Gauge is at zero or maybe 1%. I left the truck running in park for a few minutes and it went up to 32%. As I said before, I have only had regens occur so far exactly on 24 engine hour increments. The last one happened one engine hour ago and the engine hours now show 121 hours. I have had 5 regens on 24 hour marks. This proves the Regen Trigger PID is not just sensing the time as I thought it might be, and as the Banks support agent also thought, as one hour since the last regen and 23 hours until the next does not equal 32% of anything. I am going to leave this PID displaying on my iDash and see if the next time I am towing at speed, maybe that Trigger % will actually go down.

The %soot changes according to your driving conditions, it's not a lineal progression, time has nothing to do with it, solely measuring DPF pressures which are converted to %soot. When it reaches 100% it will regen, and I think you'll find that you'll be close to the 24 hour mark