Ram Heavy Duty Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

question about DPF

TNmountainman

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2023
Messages
30
Reaction score
6
I bought my first ever diesel truck in 2020 (Ram 3500 HO) I’m not a total newbie when it comes to emissions since my skid steer also has an emissions system and uses DEF. The question I have is this…..by driving the truck super hard, doesn’t that process in and of itself burn the soot out of your diesel particulate filter? And isn’t that process completely independent of a computer initiated regen? Meaning the only time the ECM would initiate a regen would be if the sensors told the ECM that the soot level was past a certain amount?
 

flan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
3,501
Reaction score
7,014
Driving hard (towing) creates a passive regen. The truck has in its programming a 24hr scheduled regen on top of any passive. Those are the only types I have seen so far. 3rd is soot load based, if no passive takes place between 24hr scheduled, and soot load builds to a set threshold a regen will light off.
 

Brutal_HO

The Mad Irishman
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
12,228
Reaction score
21,878
Location
Douglas County, CO
Passive regen will occur if the EGT temps are high enough to burn off soot.

Active regen occurs as needed but will also occur every 24 engine hours by program.

As you may be aware, DEF has nothing to do with DPF/regen. DEF is used in the SCR to reduce NoX emissions.
 

TNmountainman

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2023
Messages
30
Reaction score
6
Passive regen will occur if the EGT temps are high enough to burn off soot.

Active regen occurs as needed but will also occur every 24 engine hours by program.

As you may be aware, DEF has nothing to do with DPF/regen. DEF is used in the SCR to reduce NoX emissions

so this “passive” regen, since it is independent of the ECM, blown fuses, electronics, etc, it will just “occur” correct? Like if i’m flying down the road at 80MPH for say 10 hours straight, it’s gonna burn off all the soot correct? Like nothing can stop that from happening? Like the ECM can’t be like “oh, my sensors arr telling me all the soot is removed, i’m going to now initiate a no more passive regenning”? I just want to be certain I understand this.
 

TNmountainman

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2023
Messages
30
Reaction score
6
Passive regen will occur if the EGT temps are high enough to burn off soot.

Active regen occurs as needed but will also occur every 24 engine hours by program.

As you may be aware, DEF has nothing to do with DPF/regen. DEF is used in the SCR to reduce NoX emissions.
thank you for the response, please see my next question below.
 

TNmountainman

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2023
Messages
30
Reaction score
6
Driving hard (towing) creates a passive regen. The truck has in its programming a 24hr scheduled regen on top of any passive. Those are the only types I have seen so far. 3rd is soot load based, if no passive takes place between 24hr scheduled, and soot load builds to a set threshold a regen will light off.
and do I specifically have to be towing? can 80MPH for 10hrs do it as well?
 

flan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
3,501
Reaction score
7,014
and do I specifically have to be towing? can 80MPH for 10hrs do it as well?
I do not have the proper monitor to see passive regeneration occurring, but other members have noted above 70mph the EGT is hot enough to passively regen.
 

TNmountainman

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2023
Messages
30
Reaction score
6
I do not have the proper monitor to see passive regeneration occurring, but other members have noted above 70mph the EGT is hot enough to passively regen.
but that would need to be for a set duration of time?
The reason I am asking is because I have the “exhaust filter full - power reduced” warning on my dash. Which it telling me that for some reason the ECM is not capable of initiating an “active” regen.
So in theory, I should be able to clean the filter via a passive regen? basically burning the soot out myself? Contrary to what the warming says, I seem to have no problem getting up to 80MPH.
I have a 10hr trip coming up next week. was thinking of taking the Ram to passively clean the exhaust filter. What are the chances the ECM shuts me down somehow?
 

flan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
3,501
Reaction score
7,014
but that would need to be for a set duration of time?
The reason I am asking is because I have the “exhaust filter full - power reduced” warning on my dash. Which it telling me that for some reason the ECM is not capable of initiating an “active” regen.
So in theory, I should be able to clean the filter via a passive regen? basically burning the soot out myself? Contrary to what the warming says, I seem to have no problem getting up to 80MPH.
I have a 10hr trip coming up next week. was thinking of taking the Ram to passively clean the exhaust filter. What are the chances the ECM shuts me down somehow?
I don’t have a solid answer for you on that, hopefully someone else that has experienced that specific issue before will come along and comment.
 

Brutal_HO

The Mad Irishman
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
12,228
Reaction score
21,878
Location
Douglas County, CO
How many miles on the truck and is this all no towing?

How many miles to "power reduced?" If it hits that and is still reporting full DPF, it's going into limp mode.

There is a finite life to the DPF as it will eventually fill with ash (burned off soot).

"Super hard" around town is likely to produce more soot. High speed highway and towing are more likely to create the most passive regen.

Regardless, if the active regen isn't cleaning it, there's likely a problem. The most common are boost leaks and running the wrong air filter. Faulty MAF sensor could be another cause. Could be any number of things really.
 

TNmountainman

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2023
Messages
30
Reaction score
6
How many miles on the truck and is this all no towing?

How many miles to "power reduced?" If it hits that and is still reporting full DPF, it's going into limp mode.

There is a finite life to the DPF as it will eventually fill with ash (burned off soot).

"Super hard" around town is likely to produce more soot. High speed highway and towing are more likely to create the most passive regen.

Regardless, if the active regen isn't cleaning it, there's likely a problem. The most common are boost leaks and running the wrong air filter. Faulty MAF sensor could be another cause. Could be any number of things really.
47K miles and the vast majority is heavy heavy towing. (logs to a sawmill). Also have taken a few trips from TN to Ohio hauling lumber.

It doesn’t say a number of miles. It just says “exhaust filter full, power reduced, see dealer”.

The problem is about 2 months ago I started hauling a small trailer back and forth to a job that was ONE MILE away about 2-3 times a day. And so obviously it never got hot enough for a passive regen and yes, I agree, there is something going on as to why the active regens aren’t getting initiated or aren’t working.
 

TNmountainman

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2023
Messages
30
Reaction score
6
It’s just perplexing that no one can post a definitive answer. Logic would tell you that if you light a fire, it’s going to get hot. Logic would also tell you that by driving 75 MPH for 100 miles it would burn the soot GUARANTEED. There would be no buildup inside the particulate filter at 47k miles.
 

flan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
3,501
Reaction score
7,014
The 19s have been pretty problem free, I wouldnt be surprised if it were a faulty/plugged DPF backpressure sender or something similar.
 

Brutal_HO

The Mad Irishman
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
12,228
Reaction score
21,878
Location
Douglas County, CO
It’s just perplexing that no one can post a definitive answer. Logic would tell you that if you light a fire, it’s going to get hot. Logic would also tell you that by driving 75 MPH for 100 miles it would burn the soot GUARANTEED. There would be no buildup inside the particulate filter at 47k miles.

This is a (relatively small) gathering of Ram enthusiasts, there's no Cummins or RAM powertrain engineers here.

Sorry to let you down. Perhaps you'll have better luck getting a definitive answer on Cumminsforum.
 

TNmountainman

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2023
Messages
30
Reaction score
6
The 19s have been pretty problem free, I wouldnt be surprised if it were a faulty/plugged DPF backpressure sender or something similar.
my worry is that if I try and make the trip up to Ohio next week and it’s something like a bad sensor, then is the ECM gonna shut me down?
 

Dodgeman

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2021
Messages
97
Reaction score
88
so this “passive” regen, since it is independent of the ECM, blown fuses, electronics, etc, it will just “occur” correct? Like if i’m flying down the road at 80MPH for say 10 hours straight, it’s gonna burn off all the soot correct? Like nothing can stop that from happening? Like the ECM can’t be like “oh, my sensors arr telling me all the soot is removed, i’m going to now initiate a no more passive regenning”? I just want to be certain I understand this.
Part of this issue may be an incorrect understanding of “passive regeneration”. Passive regeneration is not a specific process or procedure that the engine does. The engine doesn’t begin or end a passive regeneration. It simply means that the exhaust temps are high enough to burn DPF soot in the filter. When under the right load, it happens continuously, even if the DPF is already clean.
 

TNmountainman

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2023
Messages
30
Reaction score
6
Part of this issue may be an incorrect understanding of “passive regeneration”. Passive regeneration is not a specific process or procedure that the engine does. The engine doesn’t begin or end a passive regeneration. It simply means that the exhaust temps are high enough to burn DPF soot in the filter. When under the right load, it happens continuously, even if the DPF is already clean.
well, as I start to learn more and more about this whole system, that is the one thing that I do understand, that, regardless of what the ECM is doing, or trying to do, the sun is going to get burned out, simply because of how hot the exhaust temps are during a long haul. Like I stated, previously, right now, it is saying that the exhaust filter is full, if that is because of a bad sensor fault, then, regardless of how clean my exhaust filter is, it is always going to have that fault and the ECM will potentially shut me down during this 10 hour trip I want to take.
 

mbarber84

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 10, 2021
Messages
2,138
Reaction score
3,219
Location
Washington County, PA
but that would need to be for a set duration of time?
The reason I am asking is because I have the “exhaust filter full - power reduced” warning on my dash. Which it telling me that for some reason the ECM is not capable of initiating an “active” regen.
So in theory, I should be able to clean the filter via a passive regen? basically burning the soot out myself? Contrary to what the warming says, I seem to have no problem getting up to 80MPH.
I have a 10hr trip coming up next week. was thinking of taking the Ram to passively clean the exhaust filter. What are the chances the ECM shuts me down somehow?
If you’re getting the filter full message, that could be due to DTC P242F being active.
P242F means the truck sees the particulate filter is full, and is estimating that the blockage is a result of ash.

There are two compounds that will “fill” a DPF.

Soot and ash

Soot
is unburned hydrocarbons (mostly fuel). The soot is what’s being removed anytime you have active or passive regeneration occurring. Soot builds up much more quickly than ash, and is regularly generated and removed during the life of the DPF

Ash is another byproduct of combustion. Ash is what remains after the soot has been burned away through regeneration. Ash is mostly a result of the additives and metals in engine oil that are used as friction barriers. The ash is not combustible, therefore it does not burn away during regeneration. It will slowly build up over time, plugging the individual pathways within the DPF filter media. This build up slowly changes the differential pressure reading of the DPF over time as it continually builds up. Eventually there’s enough ash build up (and therefore restriction) to the point the truck can no longer adequately maintain the DPF. Hence P242F.

When P242F is set, in most cases, it can not be cleared simply by resetting trouble codes. When it is active, it also inhibits Active regeneration from occurring. The truck isn’t going to pass fuel downstream to burn out a non-combustible blockage. There are only a few ways around P242F. If it’s a false reading (which can happen for a number of reasons) you can sometimes go into the ECM and erase the historical DPF data, reset the regenerative filter timers, and then initiate a forced (parked) regeneration cycle to try and burn out the filter. This works sometimes. Not all the time. Sometimes, if ash is legitimately blocking the filter, you can take it to a specialist that can wash the ash out using chemicals and high pressure water, as well as a long bake in a specialized oven. This process is more difficult to achieve with the DPF’s on our trucks as they were never designed or built to be serviceable, like the commercial ones are in large trucks and equipment. Our trucks have the DOC / DPF all in one continuous piece. Whereas commercial trucks and equipment have them as separate removable and serviceable components. There are some who have made these cleanings work through various uncommon methods and had success. I read a story not long ago where a welder actually cut his DPF open, cleaned the ash out, and then welded it back together. Once it’s cleaned, the same method of clearing historical data and resetting regenerative filter timers must be completed.

The only other way around a legitimate P242F is a complete DPF replacement.

You can inspect the DPF inlet with a small borescope if you have access to one. Ash restriction is visible on the face of the inlet as whiteish colored powder that is stuff into all the small pores in the DPF.
 

TNmountainman

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2023
Messages
30
Reaction score
6
If you’re getting the filter full message, that could be due to DTC P242F being active.
P242F means the truck sees the particulate filter is full, and is estimating that the blockage is a result of ash.

There are two compounds that will “fill” a DPF.

Soot and ash

Soot
is unburned hydrocarbons (mostly fuel). The soot is what’s being removed anytime you have active or passive regeneration occurring. Soot builds up much more quickly than ash, and is regularly generated and removed during the life of the DPF

Ash is another byproduct of combustion. Ash is what remains after the soot has been burned away through regeneration. Ash is mostly a result of the additives and metals in engine oil that are used as friction barriers. The ash is not combustible, therefore it does not burn away during regeneration. It will slowly build up over time, plugging the individual pathways within the DPF filter media. This build up slowly changes the differential pressure reading of the DPF over time as it continually builds up. Eventually there’s enough ash build up (and therefore restriction) to the point the truck can no longer adequately maintain the DPF. Hence P242F.

When P242F is set, in most cases, it can not be cleared simply by resetting trouble codes. When it is active, it also inhibits Active regeneration from occurring. The truck isn’t going to pass fuel downstream to burn out a non-combustible blockage. There are only a few ways around P242F. If it’s a false reading (which can happen for a number of reasons) you can sometimes go into the ECM and erase the historical DPF data, reset the regenerative filter timers, and then initiate a forced (parked) regeneration cycle to try and burn out the filter. This works sometimes. Not all the time. Sometimes, if ash is legitimately blocking the filter, you can take it to a specialist that can wash the ash out using chemicals and high pressure water, as well as a long bake in a specialized oven. This process is more difficult to achieve with the DPF’s on our trucks as they were never designed or built to be serviceable, like the commercial ones are in large trucks and equipment. Our trucks have the DOC / DPF all in one continuous piece. Whereas commercial trucks and equipment have them as separate removable and serviceable components. There are some who have made these cleanings work through various uncommon methods and had success. I read a story not long ago where a welder actually cut his DPF open, cleaned the ash out, and then welded it back together. Once it’s cleaned, the same method of clearing historical data and resetting regenerative filter timers must be completed.

The only other way around a legitimate P242F is a complete DPF replacement.

You can inspect the DPF inlet with a small borescope if you have access to one. Ash restriction is visible on the face of the inlet as whiteish colored powder that is stuff into all the small pores in the DPF.
dude! that is a great reply! Thank you for taking the time to provide more insight and knowledge!
I guess one question that I’m wondering is that isn’t 47000 miles considered low mileage and that it is unlikely the ECM is thinking it is the DTC P242F error?
Also, how can I find this exact error code?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top