Thanks for confirming my suspicions that the numbers are artificially lowered because marketing i guess. When i was looking to trade in my Ecodiesel because of the Engine fire recall, and I did need to go to a bigger truck for TT, it was the right time to make a move, with 0% APR. Unfortunately here in North NJ at the time there were no 3500's available anywhere, and I found a pretty good deal on my 2500. I spoke to a buddy of mine who's grown up driving & working on HD trucks, and currently has a 2001 F250 7.3, i asked him about if i should hold out for a 3500, and he said for how little i tow (4 - 5 times a year) don't bother with a 3500. He told me the 2500 will ride nicer for most of the daily driving i do, and under the sheet metal except for the springs, all the important stuff is identical between the 2500 & 3500 so if I ever have to do any heavy towing the 2500 will be up to the task no problem, it might just sag a bit in the back.
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Payload capacity/tow question
- Thread starter EODMatt
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Thanks for confirming my suspicions that the numbers are artificially lowered because marketing i guess. When i was looking to trade in my Ecodiesel because of the Engine fire recall, and I did need to go to a bigger truck for TT, it was the right time to make a move, with 0% APR. Unfortunately here in North NJ at the time there were no 3500's available anywhere, and I found a pretty good deal on my 2500. I spoke to a buddy of mine who's grown up driving & working on HD trucks, and currently has a 2001 F250 7.3, i asked him about if i should hold out for a 3500, and he said for how little i tow (4 - 5 times a year) don't bother with a 3500. He told me the 2500 will ride nicer for most of the daily driving i do, and under the sheet metal except for the springs, all the important stuff is identical between the 2500 & 3500 so if I ever have to do any heavy towing the 2500 will be up to the task no problem, it might just sag a bit in the back.
Up until 2013 a 2500 was 8800lbs. In 2013 the Cummins got 10k and the 5.7 got 9k
Then in 2014 they brought the 6.4l out and it got 10k
Now the 5.7l is gone from HD.
We know the RAM got some upgrades in 2013. First year for the class V hitch.
So, if 10k is an artificial limit, why was it 8800 and now 10k and they got rid if the 5.7l at 9k.
This is an everyday question at the 1500 site.
It got bigger brakes and an extra lug and went from 6900 to 7100.
Seems to me there is something to it.
But, i can not disagree either.
But if you look at a Regular Cab 2500 and 3500 for 2018...they are real close to the same GVWR.
Now the Crew Cabs...they have a bit more between 2500 to 3500.
And a 2018 Crew Cab longbed gets less payload than the shortbed...but for 2019 it doesn't.
Lots of oddities when you start looking at this.
Then in 2014 they brought the 6.4l out and it got 10k
Now the 5.7l is gone from HD.
We know the RAM got some upgrades in 2013. First year for the class V hitch.
So, if 10k is an artificial limit, why was it 8800 and now 10k and they got rid if the 5.7l at 9k.
This is an everyday question at the 1500 site.
It got bigger brakes and an extra lug and went from 6900 to 7100.
Seems to me there is something to it.
But, i can not disagree either.
But if you look at a Regular Cab 2500 and 3500 for 2018...they are real close to the same GVWR.
Now the Crew Cabs...they have a bit more between 2500 to 3500.
And a 2018 Crew Cab longbed gets less payload than the shortbed...but for 2019 it doesn't.
Lots of oddities when you start looking at this.
Look at your payload sticker. It will give you the max weight you can load. I just posted on another comment that my 2500 4x4 has a payload capacity of 2700 lbs. yours should be higher, base your goal at the pin weight around 20% of the trailer weight and a full tank of gas/diesel and whatever you're going to have in the truck.
Hmmm. So...does this mean that a 6.4 hemi 2500 can haul a much bigger fifth wheel with a heavier pin weight safer and “more legal” than the exact same 2500 with the 6.7 Cummins?
Towing is an opinion. And my opinion is...from owning a 2013 Cummins and a 2015 6.4l...that when you load a ton and a half in the bed of both...you will be closer to overlading the front axle in the Cummins than the HEMI.
The Cummins gets a larger GCWR because of its power. But that is still figured with the same tongue weight. So you can haul a heavier trailer...but a different type of heavier trailer.
When those trucks trucks make a hard stop... I think the HEMI has the extra capacity with the axle to handle that. The Cummins gets closer to an overload.
Just my thoughts.
I would much rather see someone overload a 2500 than these people who think it is okay to grossly overload a 1500. With both length and weight.
The Cummins gets a larger GCWR because of its power. But that is still figured with the same tongue weight. So you can haul a heavier trailer...but a different type of heavier trailer.
When those trucks trucks make a hard stop... I think the HEMI has the extra capacity with the axle to handle that. The Cummins gets closer to an overload.
Just my thoughts.
I would much rather see someone overload a 2500 than these people who think it is okay to grossly overload a 1500. With both length and weight.
More legal. LOL
Which truck weighs more? A 2500 gas loaded to max GVWR or a 2500 Diesel loaded to max GVWR?
<feather/brick>
LOL. The one on the right. I was just playing on the tunnel vision some people have on the payload number. Thankfully, they haven’t made any laws against exceeding the “payload number”. Otherwise, the gasser would be a more useful truck than the diesel for hauling 5th wheels, and all the people who transport RVs for commerce would be in jail.
Exactly. It's amazing how many weight police on the RV message boards and Facebook groups think otherwise. And furthermore, if you are non-commercial, they don't really care at all. The best upgrade you can do to an SRW 3500 is a set of 285/75r18, 295/70r18, 295/65r20, or 285/70r20 tires. This bumps your tire capacity to 8160# per axle and makes an amazing difference in how stable a load feels on the highway.
Burn'n Oil
It's a metaphor!
Magic towing dust...
AKDoug
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I hit my goal just about perfect when I bought a 25K GVWR gooseneck with super singles to go behind my 3500 SRW LB CC. If I load it correctly I can hit my 4K limit on my pin weight and put 20K over the rear axles of the trailer and stay within the axle and towing capacities of my truck. Today at the scales I was 5K on the front axle/7 K rear on the truck and 19.5K on the trailer axles. I was 100% of the GAWR on the rear axle of the truck and 1000# short on the front axle. Just like on my semis, there is no real way to get that last 1000# on the front axle. No way I can transfer any of that load that far forward. I will usually leave 1000# on the table on the trailer as well because I can't get the 5K pin weight required to get the full GVWR out of the trailer. Pretty much the perfect setup for what I'm doing now. I
i'm a little frustrated that when I go to a 4500 chassis cab dually I gain GAWR on the axles, but lose a significant amount of rated towing capacity. Since the scales guys only care about GAWR, I'm probably going to have to exceed the published towing capacity regularly. I need the bed payload capacity of the 4500 and no way am I going to go with 4.44 or 4.89's in the 5500.
i'm a little frustrated that when I go to a 4500 chassis cab dually I gain GAWR on the axles, but lose a significant amount of rated towing capacity. Since the scales guys only care about GAWR, I'm probably going to have to exceed the published towing capacity regularly. I need the bed payload capacity of the 4500 and no way am I going to go with 4.44 or 4.89's in the 5500.
What about running an offset gooseball forward? Should be plenty of clearance with a gooseneck. That might help you move a few hundred pounds at least?
AKDoug
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I don't think the small distance forward would help much. It's pretty rare I'm pushing the envelope anyway.
Plum Cra Zy
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Talked to a guy in agriculture-pesticide business and their company was buying 250 2500 GM's a year. But now that GM has raised their GVW's to appox
11250# they are going to have to start getting 1500's because of the log book BS and DOT regs. He wasn't at all happy about it because they tow a lot of
11000# ag trailers around and hitch wt is pretty high witch the half-tons can't handle, so it will be interesting to see what GM does next year! I'm sure they
aren't the only company in the US with those concerns. But to get back on topic, load that 2500 up. just watch rear axle capacity, and you should be fine!
11250# they are going to have to start getting 1500's because of the log book BS and DOT regs. He wasn't at all happy about it because they tow a lot of
11000# ag trailers around and hitch wt is pretty high witch the half-tons can't handle, so it will be interesting to see what GM does next year! I'm sure they
aren't the only company in the US with those concerns. But to get back on topic, load that 2500 up. just watch rear axle capacity, and you should be fine!
St.Pete Ron
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If you can't dodge it RAM it!
Interesting discussion and my very first post. I have throat cancer and finished chemo and radiation 6 weeks ago. I am just starting to feel human again. To celebrate, my wife and I just bought a 2020 RAM 2500 4X4 Diesel 6 ft 4 in bed Laramie Longhorn. I then set out to find a 5th wheel thinking that I had a towing capacity of over 19K (by VIN) . I was very shocked when I discovered that the limiting factor was total cargo capacity... In this case, a very meager 2108 lbs. I did have one RV salesman tell me that actually, the GAWR was more important.
GAWR front is 6,000 while the rear is 6,040. Hey, I'm just a older guy who wants to go camping. I researched lower wt 5th wheels. I placed a deposit on a KZ Durango 33 ft Half Ton D283RLT today. It has a pin weight of 1530 lbs. (actually weighed and heavier than factory number.).
I have had two Ford 1 ton DRW and one RAM 3500 SRW in the past. I really didn't want a DRW as my daily driver in Houston. So, I feel that I am pretty safe with this choice. It's a smaller 5th wheel than many. We are not full timers but casual campers. I am glad I learned about pin weight an max cargo capacity before I went out and bought a 16k lb 5th wheel!
GAWR front is 6,000 while the rear is 6,040. Hey, I'm just a older guy who wants to go camping. I researched lower wt 5th wheels. I placed a deposit on a KZ Durango 33 ft Half Ton D283RLT today. It has a pin weight of 1530 lbs. (actually weighed and heavier than factory number.).
I have had two Ford 1 ton DRW and one RAM 3500 SRW in the past. I really didn't want a DRW as my daily driver in Houston. So, I feel that I am pretty safe with this choice. It's a smaller 5th wheel than many. We are not full timers but casual campers. I am glad I learned about pin weight an max cargo capacity before I went out and bought a 16k lb 5th wheel!
RVTRKN
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Salesman was correct about the GAWR. The advertised weights on RV's, are always under the actual weights. So the only way to know, is to hitch it up and take it to the scales, if your worried about the weight. Look at the weight cert., I weighed the 5ver connected with my 04.5 2500 CTD and the truck at full weight and my 34' 5ver dry weight.
Welp, real world example I can give from this weekend ... I have a 19 2500 6.4L Big horn, this weekend I had 2.5 yards of pea gravel in the back. They did tell me it was 3,000 lbs per yard so 7,000 lbs in the back in one trip. She had one hell of a squat, the back came down as they were pouring it with the bucket but did come back up a hair when they were done. Even with her nose in the air, with the Tow/Haul on (I have no idea what this button does other than turn on a lite), she handled fine, just shifted a bit hard. The Transforce tires weren’t happy (yeah I didn’t air them out till after loaded). But all in all, she took it like a champ.
Just going off feel, I think when decelerating it may also downshift sooner ... or at the very least that’s how it felt while driving
and id like to re-iterate for anyone else reading this how impressed I was with hauling that much weight. Previous trucks I’ve flattened leafs and crushed suspensions, this thing took the abuse (might be because she’s still so new) and was ready for more after ! My only real complaint on the truck is she’s still so new that modding isn’t easy and there are more 1500s so we are not very high on the aftermarket fake OEM stock side of things ... my 2010 1500 by the time I started adding fog and swapping to LEDs, it was easy to do and the dealer could easily do it for me ... now they can’t even add fogs or swap to LEDs *yet*