FCA 2017 3500 CUMMINS 6.7 HO EMISSIONS RECALL #67A

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Howzat?

My 2020 is only @17K and I've had absolutely zero issues with anything emissions related.

Not all are affected but its always been more of a common occurrence on trucks that sit to see issues like DEF crystallization, stuck EGR valves and other minor things. I see it often enough in diesel equipment thats not used alot now too

 

[flan]

I read a post on TDR from a guy that got 67A, here’s his commentary;

Unfortunately, the dealer applied the update before I could tell them not not to. The two things that I have noticed since getting it (well, 3 if you count the fact that I now have heat), is that it has some rough idle spells when then the engine is cold that it didn't have before and I've noticed that lifting off of the throttle at slow speeds (again, mostly when it's cold), my truck's forward momentum just absolutely dies (like driving into sand or something), where before it would glide and I'm not going fast enough for the e-brake to engage. Overall power and fuel mileage seem to be okay so far, but it's only been a few weeks.

 

[WRCLVR]

Interesting feed back..../\/\..sounds like something going on with Exhaust brake? maybe incorrectly controlling the default position? Dunno about the rough idle when cold..possible lean/rich fuel/air calibration or heater grid or ? ?

 

[bmsuper]

New on this site. Like everyone else I didn't come here till I had trouble with my RAM 3500 DRW. I received the 67A recall notice so I brought in the truck for the re-flash. On the way home I had a turbo problem where I had no power and it would only go 5 mph. I called the dealer when I got home and he said they didn't work on the turbo or turbo actuator but that might be the problem. I know the turbo actuator is about $2,000 from FCA. I never had a turbo problem before bringing my truck in for the 67A re-flash. So, if I were you guys I would not bring my truck in for this recall. I talked to W&W diesel down here in supply, NC and they said the recall probably re-calibrated the ECM where it may cause your turbo actuator to go further than it did before and it may be hanging up in the variable turbo. Either way it did not do this before I brought it in so where do I go from here. I really don't trust my dealer, Victory RAM in Shallotte, NC.

 

[Brutal_HO]

New on this site. Like everyone else I didn't come here till I had trouble with my RAM 3500 DRW. I received the 67A recall notice so I brought in the truck for the re-flash. On the way home I had a turbo problem where I had no power and it would only go 5 mph. I called the dealer when I got home and he said they didn't work on the turbo or turbo actuator but that might be the problem. I know the turbo actuator is about $2,000 from FCA. I never had a turbo problem before bringing my truck in for the 67A re-flash. So, if I were you guys I would not bring my truck in for this recall. I talked to W&W diesel down here in supply, NC and they said the recall probably re-calibrated the ECM where it may cause your turbo actuator to go further than it did before and it may be hanging up in the variable turbo. Either way it did not do this before I brought it in so where do I go from here. I really don't trust my dealer, Victory RAM in Shallotte, NC.

You could try @RamCares

 

[flan]

New on this site. Like everyone else I didn't come here till I had trouble with my RAM 3500 DRW. I received the 67A recall notice so I brought in the truck for the re-flash. On the way home I had a turbo problem where I had no power and it would only go 5 mph. I called the dealer when I got home and he said they didn't work on the turbo or turbo actuator but that might be the problem. I know the turbo actuator is about $2,000 from FCA. I never had a turbo problem before bringing my truck in for the 67A re-flash. So, if I were you guys I would not bring my truck in for this recall. I talked to W&W diesel down here in supply, NC and they said the recall probably re-calibrated the ECM where it may cause your turbo actuator to go further than it did before and it may be hanging up in the variable turbo. Either way it did not do this before I brought it in so where do I go from here. I really don't trust my dealer, Victory RAM in Shallotte, NC.

What year is your truck?

 

[Brutal_HO]

I read a post on TDR from a guy that got 67A, here’s his commentary;

Unfortunately, the dealer applied the update before I could tell them not not to. The two things that I have noticed since getting it (well, 3 if you count the fact that I now have heat), is that it has some rough idle spells when then the engine is cold that it didn't have before and I've noticed that lifting off of the throttle at slow speeds (again, mostly when it's cold), my truck's forward momentum just absolutely dies (like driving into sand or something), where before it would glide and I'm not going fast enough for the e-brake to engage. Overall power and fuel mileage seem to be okay so far, but it's only been a few weeks.

New on this site. Like everyone else I didn't come here till I had trouble with my RAM 3500 DRW. I received the 67A recall notice so I brought in the truck for the re-flash. On the way home I had a turbo problem where I had no power and it would only go 5 mph. I called the dealer when I got home and he said they didn't work on the turbo or turbo actuator but that might be the problem. I know the turbo actuator is about $2,000 from FCA. I never had a turbo problem before bringing my truck in for the 67A re-flash. So, if I were you guys I would not bring my truck in for this recall. I talked to W&W diesel down here in supply, NC and they said the recall probably re-calibrated the ECM where it may cause your turbo actuator to go further than it did before and it may be hanging up in the variable turbo. Either way it did not do this before I brought it in so where do I go from here. I really don't trust my dealer, Victory RAM in Shallotte, NC.

This might explain both issues, maybe they're also changing the parameters of the VGT actuator?

 

[mbarber84]

This might explain both issues, maybe they're also changing the parameters of the VGT actuator?

I have it on pretty solid authority that the only changes made on the 67A flash is to the NOx sensor application strategy. (Bear with me here as I’m relaying from a week + old conversation that was hastily executed and explained). From what I was told, the EPA didn’t like the manner in which the truck’s NOx sensors were utilized. Some were turned on and some were turned off during different stages of operation and driving. The flash basically makes them utilized more frequently and then adjusts DEF dosing to rectify detected NOx levels at various times. The person I spoke with, who is very knowledgeable, was adamant that there would be no adjustments to the engines operating parameters and that no reduction in HP or Torque will occur. They went on to say that Ram would not attempt to derate anything due to the chances of opening up the flood gates on litigation. In essence if they start to drop performance, and someone savvy enough can prove that drop, they’ll open themselves up to repeated lawsuits that they would likely lose.

 

[AH64ID]

I have it on pretty solid authority that the only changes made on the 67A flash is to the NOx sensor application strategy. (Bear with me here as I’m relaying from a week + old conversation that was hastily executed and explained). From what I was told, the EPA didn’t like the manner in which the truck’s NOx sensors were utilized. Some were turned on and some were turned off during different stages of operation and driving. The flash basically makes them utilized more frequently and then adjusts DEF dosing to rectify detected NOx levels at various times. The person I spoke with, who is very knowledgeable, was adamant that there would be no adjustments to the engines operating parameters and that no reduction in HP or Torque will occur. They went on to say that Ram would not attempt to derate anything due to the chances of opening up the flood gates on litigation. In essence if they start to drop performance, and someone savvy enough can prove that drop, they’ll open themselves up to repeated lawsuits that they would likely lose.

As I’ve said before, the highest rated CTD was released with the fix in place. There is no reason that any of the effected engines cannot maintain power and fuel economy with increased DEF consumption.

 

[moparfan06]

I have it on pretty solid authority that the only changes made on the 67A flash is to the NOx sensor application strategy. (Bear with me here as I’m relaying from a week + old conversation that was hastily executed and explained). From what I was told, the EPA didn’t like the manner in which the truck’s NOx sensors were utilized. Some were turned on and some were turned off during different stages of operation and driving. The flash basically makes them utilized more frequently and then adjusts DEF dosing to rectify detected NOx levels at various times. The person I spoke with, who is very knowledgeable, was adamant that there would be no adjustments to the engines operating parameters and that no reduction in HP or Torque will occur. They went on to say that Ram would not attempt to derate anything due to the chances of opening up the flood gates on litigation. In essence if they start to drop performance, and someone savvy enough can prove that drop, they’ll open themselves up to repeated lawsuits that they would likely lose.

Any thoughts as to how much DEF usage goes up after applying this flash? Right now I get about 5,000 miles per 2.5 gallons of DEF just driving around. If I tow heavy, of course the DEF gets used more.

 

[mbarber84]

Any thoughts as to how much DEF usage goes up after applying this flash? Right now I get about 5,000 miles per 2.5 gallons of DEF just driving around. If I tow heavy, of course the DEF gets used more.

Can’t cite specifics but I would assume the truck would average what the 2020+ trucks get in terms of DEF mileage. My 2022 3500 CC LB DRW HO gets roughly 500 miles per gallon of DEF when operated in a predominantly highway unloaded duty cycle. I keep the truck at 75mph as much as possible so it consumes more fuel that way (but aids in more effective passive regeneration). I usually average about 14-15mpg fuel consumption.

 

[AH64ID]

Any thoughts as to how much DEF usage goes up after applying this flash? Right now I get about 5,000 miles per 2.5 gallons of DEF just driving around. If I tow heavy, of course the DEF gets used more.

That is very low DEF use, my 2018 used 2x that much empty. It got ~1000mpg empty and ~500mpg towing.

For comparison my 2022 gets ~700mpg empty and ~350mpg towing.

Both are HO’s.

 

[marine6805]

Since I don't separate towing from non-towing I can only comment on overall DEF usage.
I have roughly 60K miles, about half/half towing vs. not towing, and my DEF usage is about
990 miles per gallon of DEF. I do keep a spreadsheet for all fuel/service events, as well
as towing mileage events (by year). My truck to me is 4 years old and came to me with 9.3K
miles.

 

[mbarber84]

Any thoughts as to how much DEF usage goes up after applying this flash? Right now I get about 5,000 miles per 2.5 gallons of DEF just driving around. If I tow heavy, of course the DEF gets used more.

What kind of fuel economy do you see?
(Hand calculated not based on the EViC)
If you achieved an average fuel economy of 20mpg (which would be rare) over that 5,000 miles, you would have consumed 250 gallons of fuel. DEF consumption should run between 2% and 5% of fuel consumed. Since DEF consumption and fuel consumption are directly related. 2% of 250 gallons is 5 gallons (which is double the amount you’re claiming you use). I've never seen a truck achieve anything below 2%.

 

[AH64ID]

I've never seen a truck achieve anything below 2%.

They say 2-3%, but it was rare for my 18 to be above 2%. I wonder if that has anything to do with the recall and lawsuit. I’m having a hard time envisioning 1/2 that usage rate thou.

 

[mbarber84]

They say 2-3%, but it was rare for my 18 to be above 2%. I wonder if that has anything to do with the recall and lawsuit. I’m having a hard time envisioning 1/2 that usage rate thou.

View attachment 70995

I’m fairly certain that’s exactly what the litigation is all about. The NOx sensor strategy was such that the trucks were not operating the sensors or pulling readings in certain engine run modes / scenarios. If it wasn’t monitoring NOx then it wasn’t always dosing DEF when it should have been, which is why the consumption % was so low. The entire industry pretty much calls 2% the bottom floor. (I’ve even seen several entities claiming it should be closer to 3% minimum)

 

[AH64ID]

I’m fairly certain that’s exactly what the litigation is all about. The NOx sensor strategy was such that the trucks were not operating the sensors or pulling readings in certain engine run modes / scenarios. If it wasn’t monitoring NOx then it wasn’t always dosing DEF when it should have been, which is why the consumption % was so low. The entire industry pretty much calls 2% the bottom floor. (I’ve even seen several entities claiming it should be closer to 3% minimum)

I also have noticed that my EGR crossover tube on the 22 isn’t heat discolored like the 18 did yet. I’m not aware of any drastic EGR cooler improvements, so that tells me the EGR is being used less in conjunction with the increased DEF consumption. Maybe the recall will reduce EGR on the 13-18’s.

 

[unclelala]

I keep the truck at 75mph as much as possible

I live quite far from a highway which allows 75 MPH and most places I travel are 2 lane highways with a speed limit of 50 MPH. So usually I push to 60 MPH with tow mode and exhaust brake and set the gear limiter to 4 or 5 depending on my speed.
This seems to keep the truck running smoothly and seems to keep the DPF gauge lower.

 

[mbarber84]

I also have noticed that my EGR crossover tube on the 22 isn’t heat discolored like the 18 did yet. I’m not aware of any drastic EGR cooler improvements, so that tells me the EGR is being used less in conjunction with the increased DEF consumption. Maybe the recall will reduce EGR on the 13-18’s.

Never thought to look at it until you mentioned it, but I would absolutely concur. My 22’s crossover tube is not even remotely as discolored as my 17 was.

 

[flan]

There must be a different strategy with the SO motors, as mine is almost purple. I recall this conversation in the past @AH64ID.