FA-4, yay or nay?

[Southernspeed]

Getting ready for my first oil change (2021 6.7 HO) It seems the latest Rotella oils are FA-4 yet FCA calls for CK-4. Is it ok to use T5 Ultra 10w30 FA-4 CES20087?

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Getting ready for my first oil change (2021 6.7 HO) It seems the latest Rotella oils are FA-4 yet FCA calls for CK-4. Is it ok to use T5 Ultra 10w30 FA-4 CES20087?

Synthetic only… t6 5w40 is the best oil to use no need to change it every 6 months

 

[Bigwalnuthoney]

Getting ready for my first oil change (2021 6.7 HO) It seems the latest Rotella oils are FA-4 yet FCA calls for CK-4. Is it ok to use T5 Ultra 10w30 FA-4 CES20087?

I'm guessing with a name like Southernspeed you don't have to worry about below 0° weather. I have a '21 HO also and reached out to Cummins a while back since I might get below 0 a few times a year where I live, they said run 10w30 year round. As far as the FA 4, from what I read the CES 20087 is not backward compatible like the CES 20086 rating. The OM still refers to the 20081 version, which 20086 would meet. I just fired off an email to Cummins specifically about the T5 Ultra FA 4, will let you know what they say. Their website still says CES 20081 for the 2021 6.7, so not sure what they'll recommend.

 

[Southernspeed]

I'm guessing with a name like Southernspeed you don't have to worry about below 0° weather. I have a '21 HO also and reached out to Cummins a while back since I might get below 0 a few times a year where I live, they said run 10w30 year round. As far as the FA 4, from what I read the CES 20087 is not backward compatible like the CES 20086 rating. The OM still refers to the 20081 version, which 20086 would meet. I just fired off an email to Cummins specifically about the T5 Ultra FA 4, will let you know what they say. Their website still says CES 20081 for the 2021 6.7, so not sure what they'll recommend.

That's interesting, I look forward to hearing what they say! Actually 'southern speed' was the name of my motorcycle shop back in England before I retired, moved to this amazing Country, bought a horse farm and started working REALLY hard for a living

 

[Bigwalnuthoney]

From a 2019 Fleet Equipment article:

"According to Corey Trobaugh, Cummins director of corporate materials science and technology, currently, the X15 and X12 engines allow for the use of Cummins-approved FA-4 oil (CES 20087). Trobaugh added that for the immediate future, Cummins does not plan to allow FA-4 oil on any other platforms such as its B6.7 or L9 engines."

Not sure if that's changed since.

 

[Southernspeed]

From a 2019 Fleet Equipment article:

"According to Corey Trobaugh, Cummins director of corporate materials science and technology, currently, the X15 and X12 engines allow for the use of Cummins-approved FA-4 oil (CES 20087). Trobaugh added that for the immediate future, Cummins does not plan to allow FA-4 oil on any other platforms such as its B6.7 or L9 engines."

Not sure if that's changed since.

I'm kind of surprised that their (or anyone's) engines are so particular about oil. Really makes me wonder if modern oils (with all the 'good' stuff removed to pass emissions) are really quite marginal in their design abilities. Back in the day when we didn't care about what came out of the tail pipe, when oils were stuffed with wear and corrosion inhibitors , we just chose a viscosity for the duty of the motor. Those days are long gone.

 

[Bigwalnuthoney]

Not much help, but here's Cummins' response:

"Thank you for contacting Cummins. Please reach out to your local Dodge dealer for assistance with this question. We have a legal agreement with Dodge that any technical, parts, service, warranty, or any other request we have to refer you to your local Dodge Dealer. Have a great day. "

I'm gonna say no FA-4 based on the 2019 article.

 

[Dmbecke]

So.... what oil do we use that is synthetic and 10w-30.
the T6 only comes in 5-40?
what is easy to find and not too expensive?

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

So.... what oil do we use that is synthetic and 10w-30.
the T6 only comes in 5-40?
what is easy to find and not too expensive?

5w40 is safe year round according to rams tsb thats all i run year round,

 

[John Jensen]

^^^^^^^^^^
Agree. That's what my 2020 manual says and that's what I use year round, T6, 5w-40

 

[Bigwalnuthoney]

I don't disagree that 5w40 is acceptable. But there must be some advantage to 10w30 or they would just tell everyone to run the 5w40 regardless. What that is, I don't know.

 

[John Jensen]

I don't disagree that 5w40 is acceptable. But there must be some advantage to 10w30 or they would just tell everyone to run the 5w40 regardless. What that is, I don't know.

I think it's just matter if you are not in cold climates 10w-30 is fine. And if you are in cold climates you need to go to 5w-40. And 5w-40 is acceptable in all climates.

 

[Southernspeed]

I don't disagree that 5w40 is acceptable. But there must be some advantage to 10w30 or they would just tell everyone to run the 5w40 regardless. What that is, I don't know.

If Ram/Cummins are happy with 5 weight as the base carrier oil then you have a greater range of protection with a viscosity modifier of 40. 5 weight will get around the motor faster and 40 will give you better protection under higher heat/stress situations.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I don't disagree that 5w40 is acceptable. But there must be some advantage to 10w30 or they would just tell everyone to run the 5w40 regardless. What that is, I don't know.

Id have to recheck but i think they stated severe duty should be 5w-40 only….

 

[AEV_CUMMINS]

AMSOIL makes full synthetic 10W30 and is for sure competitive with T6 oils.

 

[Southernspeed]

Id have to recheck but i think they stated severe duty should be 5w-40 only….

The TSB said that those that operate in mostly sub zero must use 5w40 but that it can also be used in all climates (or words to that effect)

 

[AEV_CUMMINS]

I also wonder what benefit 10w30 would have over 5w40 if in theory the 40 number would take over in over 0 temps anyway and would that not have better protection in heat anyways than 30 in the other? Or would the less thick 10w30 somehow be better all around if over 0 degrees?

 

[Southernspeed]

I also wonder what benefit 10w30 would have over 5w40 if in theory the 40 number would take over in over 0 temps anyway and would that not have better protection in heat anyways than 30 in the other? Or would the less thick 10w30 somehow be better all around if over 0 degrees?

The viscosity modifiers will cover protection from below and above the 10w30 spec. I'll be using the 5w40. Unless you have a high mileage motor that needs a heavier base oil, I can't see any problem with it.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

The TSB said that those that operate in mostly sub zero must use 5w40 but that it can also be used in all climates (or words to that effect)

Yes i read that elsewhere not the tsb

 

[AEV_CUMMINS]

The viscosity modifiers will cover protection from below and above the 10w30 spec. I'll be using the 5w40. Unless you have a high mileage motor that needs a heavier base oil, I can't see any problem with it.

Thanks, this is my thinking.. why even tell people to run 10w30 then if the 5w40 covers both temperature bases even further & (possibly) better? Fuel economy? I really have never understood this when it comes to an either or scenario.