Dreaded DEF system issue... you're screwed in xxx miles

[Will_T]

I tried everything with my scanner that can do just about everything and it could not clear the code it could be a gateway issue but i am not sure

And I don't want to take this thread further off topic so I think I will start a new thread with a couple of questions about my specific setup and using a security bypass module cable. I did a search and did not find exactly what I need to figure out except for possibly in the long AlphaOBD thread. My questions are too basic to add on to that thread so I will ask them in a more specific way in a new thread. I will tag you when I do it in case it helps with your situation also.

 

[fuchsroehre]

I read somewhere that first responder vehicles do not go into the 5mph limp mode.
That would be it. Getting an OEM tune and not being "forced" into a full delete.
I hate the smell of deleted trucks, makes me feel sick.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I read somewhere that first responder vehicles do not go into the 5mph limp mode.
That would be it. Getting an OEM tune and not being "forced" into a full delete.
I hate the smell of deleted trucks, makes me feel sick.

A good clean tune wont smell bad at all and it smells a lot better than the DEF smell…

 

[flan]

I read somewhere that first responder vehicles do not go into the 5mph limp mode.
That would be it. Getting an OEM tune and not being "forced" into a full delete.
I hate the smell of deleted trucks, makes me feel sick.

Nope, they have the same damn emissions as every one of us... only difference on the engines and ladder trucks we can “inhibit” a re-gen in case we are parked in a area where that’s not a good idea for it to take place. Too many inhibits and...... limp mode.

 

[sstoner911]

Nope, they have the same damn emissions as every one of us... only difference on the engines and ladder trucks we can “inhibit” a re-gen in case we are parked in a area where that’s not a good idea for it to take place. Too many inhibits and...... limp mode.

First responders are suppose to be exempt from limp mode. This is from Cummins Directly :

Emissions Derate Exemptions. Cummins EPA 2013 and newer diesel engines for fire and emergency vehicles should not experience any emissions-related vehicle speed or engine torque derates. To determine if there are calibration updates applicable to your engine, contact Cummins Care at 1-800-DIESELS™ (1-800-343-7357) with your Engine Serial Number (ESN). Visit cumminsengines.com/fire-and-emergency for more details and information on engines built prior to 2013.'

If this is not the case for your Department, you should ask fleet maintenance to correct this ASAP.

 

[flan]

Probably because of the 13 and newer part.

 

[sstoner911]

Probably because of the 13 and newer part.

Your rig is older than 2013? Might be time for some fish fry's!!

 

[flan]

Your rig is older than 2013? Might be time for some fish fry's!!

The pancake breakfasts just don’t bring in the crowds like they used to

 

[fossfactor]

Had the above warning come on yesterday while traveling for work. I was roughly 100 miles from home when this happened, so I turned around and immediately went home.
I had put 2.5 gallons of DEF in the tank the evening before, but noticed the gauge didn't reflect the addition. Was at 1/4 tank, so should've moved to 3/4.

Just finished up with the dealer who simply reprogrammed the ECM per a TSB (TSB number was not specified) referencing P203e code (reluctant level sensor).
The code makes sense, but the TSB leaves me perplexed.

I presume they are referencing TSB 18-034-21 which lists the following likely causes:
Scenario #1 - DEF Tank Overfilled.
• Scenario #2 - Residual Ice in the DEF Tank or Covering the Level Sensor.
• Scenario #3 - DEF Crystallization Covering the Level Sensor.

Scenario #1... nope. was at 3/4 tank after filling.
Scenario #2 nope... was 39 degrees out, and had been all day before filling. Temp never dropped below freezing before driving, and was well above freezing during the drive.
Scenario #3: unlikely since the ECM reprogram solved the issue

Reading the TSB talks about a new sensor design in 2019+ and issues in cold weather, no problems found on the numerous failed sensors provided for failure analysis, tank filled too much, etc...

So... I feel the reprogram is a band aide to a problem caused by an inadequate designed sensor system.
It may not be common, but the colder weather here in upstate NY appears to play a part.

So I guess no more road trips.

 

[fossfactor]

I had a friend who is a mechanic run a 16 foot heater cord around the tank. My mechanic in Great Falls tells me at less than 12 degrees DEF can freeze.
I plug in my heater cord when I plug in my truck on cold nights. So far no problems.

 

[OuterUB]

Is this a 2022 problem ?

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Is this a 2022 problem ?

This is any truck equipped with def problem…

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I had a friend who is a mechanic run a 16 foot heater cord around the tank. My mechanic in Great Falls tells me at less than 12 degrees DEF can freeze.
I plug in my heater cord when I plug in my truck on cold nights. So far no problems.

That would work if its not to cold when it gets down to the -30/-40 range you would almost need the tank to be insulated for that to work effectively

 

[OuterUB]

This is any truck equipped with def problem…

That blows.

 

[Jimmy07]

That is a good point. My concern is different but: Are there really some codes that put you in limp mode without any warning or leeway? I have not had it happen to me but from what I have deduced, a derate gives you a warning of so many miles before limp mode.

If a failed DEF sensor throws a code and forces me to go to a dealer to fix it, I am fine with that. I just don't want to be 200 miles out from anywhere, with no phone service and only have 100 miles before limp mode. And have that happen for a problem that does not make the truck undriveable, just "possibly" makes the exhaust temporarily a little dirtier.

Someone told me that if you have the ability to clear codes, you can clear a code like that and if it comes back, you have a new 100 miles at that point. I am not sure about the accuracy of that though. Like everything around this subject there seems to be wildly conflicting information. For example, some say you cannot clear codes without some sort of a bypass cable, even with a Banks iDash like I have. Others say you can do it with the iDash just fine and with no bypass and claim that they have done it themselves with no problem. Even Banks will tell you that you can do it. But some other very knowledgeable people say you can't.

Once you get a fault that brings up the derate in xxx miles message, there’s nothing that can be done to clear it or reset it until the engine runs and passes the diagnostic the pcm needs to see, which pretty much means whatever is causing the fault needs to be remedied.
A couple notes for anyone that does get the derate countdown:
Once you run out of miles, the engine still won’t derate to 5mph until either 1) the engine is shut off and restarted. 2) the engine idles for longer than an hour. Or 3) after a refuel- IOW, if the low fuel light illuminates, and then turns off because the fuel level is raised.
So, if you play your cards right, you could technically avoid a 5mph derate for quite some time to get where you need to go.

 

[OuterUB]

Once you get a fault that brings up the derate in xxx miles message, there’s nothing that can be done to clear it or reset it until the engine runs and passes the diagnostic the pcm needs to see, which pretty much means whatever is causing the fault needs to be remedied.
A couple notes for anyone that does get the derate countdown:
Once you run out of miles, the engine still won’t derate to 5mph until either 1) the engine is shut off and restarted. 2) the engine idles for longer than an hour. Or 3) after a refuel- IOW, if the low fuel light illuminates, and then turns off because the fuel level is raised.
So, if you play your cards right, you could technically avoid a 5mph derate for quite some time to get where you need to go.

So if you get that message .... head straight to your dealer (or A dealer) and don't shut down the truck.

In the meantime keep your fuel and DEF tanks on the higher side.

 

[Jimmy07]

So if you get that message .... head straight to your dealer (or A dealer) and don't shut down the truck.

In the meantime keep your fuel and DEF tanks on the higher side.

Yup, if you get yourself to the point the mileage countdown went to zero- don’t shut it off, don’t idle for more than an hour, and don’t let the low fuel light come on, and it won’t derate to 5mph.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Yup, if you get yourself to the point the mileage countdown went to zero- don’t shut it off, don’t idle for more than an hour, and don’t let the low fuel light come on, and it won’t derate to 5mph.

Though I think it seems to disable itself after some drive time, do you know if fast idle is considered idle? I seem to recall something along the lines of, "if it's idling in park. it's considered idle." What about "idling" in neutral?

I can see it now, someone gets pulled over...

Officer: Please shut off your engine.
Driver: I can't my truck will go into limp mode.
Officer: Sir, step out of the truck. (turns off body cam.)
... "Who you calling limp ****?"

 

[Will_T]

Though I think it seems to disable itself after some drive time, do you know if fast idle is considered idle? I seem to recall something along the lines of, "if it's idling in park. it's considered idle." What about "idling" in neutral?

What do you mean by "disable after some drive time"? It will go into limp mode after you drive for a time after the countdown reaches zero? OR into limp mode after a certain amount of drive time regardless of where the countdown is? Either of those seem to be opposite what Jimmy is saying so I must not be understanding something correctly.

 

[Brutal_HO]

What do you mean by "disable after some drive time"? It will go into limp mode after you drive for a time after the countdown reaches zero? OR into limp mode after a certain amount of drive time regardless of where the countdown is? Either of those seem to be opposite what Jimmy is saying so I must not be understanding something correctly.

"Though I think it seems to disable itself after some drive time, do you know if fast idle is considered idle?

I'm not sure how the sentence structure is not clear.

The High (fast) idle feature on my truck is disabled after some drive time and cannot be engaged.