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CP4 to CP-ISB21S3 (revised CP3) change for 2021 6.7L Diesel Trucks -- Merged Threads
- Thread starter Viper67
- Start date
Keep it civil folks...
Sent from my work avoidance device
Sent from my work avoidance device
Thank you for the update! Much appreciated
Honestly, even though a new CP-ISB21 is the ideal and correct solution to this problem that we all deserve, I'm hopeful for anything at this point.
I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but right now I'd be willing to accept a well engineered OEM disaster prevention kit vs continuing to drive around wondering if/when I may lose my truck for weeks or months to a failure. The CP4 failing sucks and is unacceptable, but I don't consider the CP4 failing a big deal, being that it's a part that I could swap in my driveway in a couple hours. It's the major damage it causes down stream that really scares the hell out of me, whether it be under warranty or not, if the dealer is a good sport and does the repair, it can still be weeks or months to get the parts and do the job. The other situation is it's too easy for a dealer to cry contaminated fuel making it an outside of warranty problem, and obviously outside of warranty it's thousands of dollars in parts and labor, and it's not something I would be confident trying to take care of myself.
A well engineered disaster prevention kit would make me feel a lot better about the whole situation since a failure under warranty would not be a big deal. If I'm away on a trip, and it fails, yes, it's a big inconvenience (and still a major safety issue), but a dealer could have the pump alone swapped in half a day if they have the parts (which I assume most dealers would start stocking replacement CP4s). Also even if the dealer cries contaminated fuel or it just fails outside of warranty, alright, again an inconvenience, but hey now it's time for a CP3 kit and I get on with my life.
Unfortunately, if Ram (Stellantis) is willing to deal with the class actions they don't *HAVE* to do anything for us until ordered by a court or the NHTSA. Hopefully they do the right thing and there's CP-ISB21's for everyone at the end of 3rd quarter, but I'm not going to be surprised or upset if they just offer a disaster prevention kit, it'll be something, and it can be had sooner than later vs waiting for a Class action to hopefully pan out or the NHTSA to step in and force Ram (Stellantis) to release a fix.
TL: DR Don't be surprised if this upcoming fix is just a disaster prevention kit, it's still way better than nothing.
I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but right now I'd be willing to accept a well engineered OEM disaster prevention kit vs continuing to drive around wondering if/when I may lose my truck for weeks or months to a failure. The CP4 failing sucks and is unacceptable, but I don't consider the CP4 failing a big deal, being that it's a part that I could swap in my driveway in a couple hours. It's the major damage it causes down stream that really scares the hell out of me, whether it be under warranty or not, if the dealer is a good sport and does the repair, it can still be weeks or months to get the parts and do the job. The other situation is it's too easy for a dealer to cry contaminated fuel making it an outside of warranty problem, and obviously outside of warranty it's thousands of dollars in parts and labor, and it's not something I would be confident trying to take care of myself.
A well engineered disaster prevention kit would make me feel a lot better about the whole situation since a failure under warranty would not be a big deal. If I'm away on a trip, and it fails, yes, it's a big inconvenience (and still a major safety issue), but a dealer could have the pump alone swapped in half a day if they have the parts (which I assume most dealers would start stocking replacement CP4s). Also even if the dealer cries contaminated fuel or it just fails outside of warranty, alright, again an inconvenience, but hey now it's time for a CP3 kit and I get on with my life.
Unfortunately, if Ram (Stellantis) is willing to deal with the class actions they don't *HAVE* to do anything for us until ordered by a court or the NHTSA. Hopefully they do the right thing and there's CP-ISB21's for everyone at the end of 3rd quarter, but I'm not going to be surprised or upset if they just offer a disaster prevention kit, it'll be something, and it can be had sooner than later vs waiting for a Class action to hopefully pan out or the NHTSA to step in and force Ram (Stellantis) to release a fix.
TL: DR Don't be surprised if this upcoming fix is just a disaster prevention kit, it's still way better than nothing.
I would be surprised if they went this rout…. It’s more of a service bandaid, when they have promised a service solution…
You're 100% right, a disaster prevention kit is totally a bandaid, but I'm pretty sure Ram (Stellantis) will consider it a "Good enough" solution if the bean counters calculate it to be the best way to lose the least amount of money.
UglyViking
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So the biggest problem from the proposal you've outlined is the fact that the CP4 is still needed to be swapped in. Currently, or previously, if your CP4 fails the dealer tech needs to reach out to FCA/Star and get approval for a CP4 replacement. Like everything else the CP4 is hard to get, or at least was during the pandemic. Outside of all the safety issues, the best you could hope for would be a quick turn around, which would likely be on the order of days for a fix, not hours. That is completely outside the fact that whatever you happen to be towing is now sitting on the side of a highway somewhere and you either have to leave it and hope for the best or pay out of pocket to get it towed somewhere.
If the only viable solution was a disaster kit then I'd be more ok with it. The Ford can only use a disaster kit due to how the fuel pump is mounted, but their pump is also not overdriven so it's failure rate is much lower, but not great.
I get what you're driving at but a kit like that wouldn't be a viable solution, especially considering that vastly better options exist.
It is also the difference of pulling a part off the shelf vs. engineering and manufacturing a kit. It may not be all that much cheaper after all the beans are counted, especially when you include all the cp4s Ram will still be replacing under warranty…
This is true, like it's been said it's all speculation until it happens, I'm just saying I'll be happy with any sort of step in the right direction at this point. Even if it's just a bandaid it's still better than a single vague post from ram cares every 6 months.
I say since the Tradesman is the workhorse of the group that it gets the better pump........the upper trim levels get cheese to go with their whine
Just kidding.......we all deserve equal and fair treatment.
Brewbud
Brewmeister Meisterbrew
With the disaster prevention kit, you still have the worry of the CP4 time bomb leaving you stranded with a somewhat expensive bill, repeatedly. You are also stuck with a truck with a lower resale value as it will be on lists of used truck models to avoid. I don't want a band-aid. I am hoping for a permanent fix to a design flaw.
LoveMyRamAustin
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STAR sent Injection Fuel System Kit R8545068AA and Fuel Pump Sending Unit 514557AA to my dealer yesterday for my 2020 Ram 2500 Laramie 4x4 6.7L Cummins/68RFE. My dealer service advisor tells me it includes the same fuel pump going into the 2021 vehicles - I really hope so. I'll post a picture of the pump when I pick the truck up Saturday. Photos of the Mopar box labels attached, and the parts diagrams. I could not determine the part number of the fuel pump in the kit and the pump does not have a reference # in the kit.
Truck has been at dealer since 6/25/21 - I had it owed in after engine RPM and acceleration became very erratic when driving @ 55 mph. I pulled off highway, parked, re-started truck and display said "Exhaust System Service Required - See Dealer". Fortunately I was 2 miles from home, and not in the mountains hauling horses where I was supposed to be the next week.
Truck has been at dealer since 6/25/21 - I had it owed in after engine RPM and acceleration became very erratic when driving @ 55 mph. I pulled off highway, parked, re-started truck and display said "Exhaust System Service Required - See Dealer". Fortunately I was 2 miles from home, and not in the mountains hauling horses where I was supposed to be the next week.
Attachments
That's the same part number as the repair kit that has been out for a bit which is just a cp4 pump going back on, not a new CP3(ish) version.
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gimmie11s
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#35 looks like a cp4.
Epsilon Plus
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Dealers don't know crap about frick.
It will be a symetrical "dimple" CP4 pump. The truck would need front cover/timing set revisions to hang a CP-ISB21S3, not just different fuel lines.
Good post though, supported docs and an effort to inform.
It will be a symetrical "dimple" CP4 pump. The truck would need front cover/timing set revisions to hang a CP-ISB21S3, not just different fuel lines.
Good post though, supported docs and an effort to inform.
exiledinaz
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I wonder how S&S made a CP3 conversion kit that drops into place with just changing fuel lines ?
exiledinaz
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I should have clarified...Thus far with the S&S install videos, I have not seen any mention of timing covers being swapped etc. A handful of work for a good mechanic, but sounds like a straight forward install.
That's true for the conversion kits. They include a clocking ring to mount the CP3 to the CP4 timing cover backing plate. (bet you reread that at least twice)
I'd be very surprised if FCA does anything, that they would do that and not replace the timing covers (front and back) and gearset.