Ram Heavy Duty Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Allison Tranny - when?

BroMoney

New Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2021
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Anybody know if the 10 Speed Allison is coming for 2022 HD Deisels?
 

MtnRider

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2020
Messages
423
Reaction score
316
Never, seriously, never. That wishful rumor has been floating around for ever and there is 0 evidence to back it. Will most likely be a ZF. And the Allison is currently made under license by GM so there is that.

2022 is not getting a new transmission. "Maybe" something in 2023?




.
 

SmokeShowJoe

New Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2021
Messages
23
Reaction score
5
I'm ok with the ZF 8 speed, even though its 4 years late in making its way into the HD trucks. My 2019 Hellcat Never missed a beat "EVER" And was said to be good for up to 1000 hp. right from the factory. "So RAM get it tooled up and lets get this thing DONE !!"
 

Firebird

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2020
Messages
408
Reaction score
472
It’s waaaaaaaay past time for the Cummins to get at least an 8 speed
 

RAM_Dad

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 21, 2021
Messages
785
Reaction score
1,423
Yeah, probably will be the ZF across the line. Would make a lot of sense to consolidate and simplify to a single transmission, as long as it gets the job done.
 

H3LZSN1P3R

You're doing it wrong
Joined
May 29, 2020
Messages
3,529
Reaction score
2,771
Alison is garbage i would avoid buying one if they did use them, the new GM trucks are dropping trans like wildfire…. The ZF now that would be a treat but i would rather a 6 speed if i cant get a manual
 

ramblinChet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Messages
498
Reaction score
936
The Allison currently being used in the GM trucks is not an Allison. It was a GM project which included consultation by Allison along with Allison branding. It was developed by GM, manufactured by GM and used exclusively by GM. Don't let the branding fool you.

A Cummins / Allison combination would be the holy grail of drivetrains. There are countless professional mechanics and technicians that would agree so if you are angry don't point your finger at me.

Do I love the ZF behind my Hemi, hell yeah! Would I sell her and begin a new project if they began installing real Allisons behind the Hemi? Nah, my ZF is doing great, thank you.

But a Cummins and Allison combo for a work truck...unbeatable.
 

Epsilon Plus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2020
Messages
584
Reaction score
1,002
60 more torque and 4 more gears. Yet, same pull time, but worse MPG.


Some of you just want more gears for the sake of wanting more because the other guys have them. The current ISB offerings are very well matched to their current gear ratio sets. Adding more gears down low is going to give you an ants ass of city mpg and that's about it.

The 68RFE 5th is .82 and 6th .63.

Allison 10 in that Chevy is 8th .85, 9th, .69, 10th, .64.

Show me the dramatic difference there above 45MPH towing or otherwise. The 10 zips through most of its gears quickly down low and ends up at the same highway speed ratios as 'ol Sixy. The video up there proves that illustration. Where's all the massive MPG savings and pull performance from all that extra power and gearing?

The RAM looks better, rides better, pulls better, gets better MPG and has a worlds better interior and they sell every one they build. Don't expect a business to change for the sake of change when things are this good right now. Do they need to stay competitive and constantly improve? Sure, but right now the RAM is toe to toe with anyone out there even if the old tech on paper bothers the bench racers.
 

Surf2snow1

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 6, 2021
Messages
847
Reaction score
1,331
60 more torque and 4 more gears. Yet, same pull time, but worse MPG.


Some of you just want more gears for the sake of wanting more because the other guys have them. The current ISB offerings are very well matched to their current gear ratio sets. Adding more gears down low is going to give you an ants ass of city mpg and that's about it.

The 68RFE 5th is .82 and 6th .63.

Allison 10 in that Chevy is 8th .85, 9th, .69, 10th, .64.

Show me the dramatic difference there above 45MPH towing or otherwise. The 10 zips through most of its gears quickly down low and ends up at the same highway speed ratios as 'ol Sixy. The video up there proves that illustration. Where's all the massive MPG savings and pull performance from all that extra power and gearing?

The RAM looks better, rides better, pulls better, gets better MPG and has a worlds better interior and they sell every one they build. Don't expect a business to change for the sake of change when things are this good right now. Do they need to stay competitive and constantly improve? Sure, but right now the RAM is toe to toe with anyone out there even if the old tech on paper bothers the bench racers.
Yup. Each change like that also requires training, parts, etc…
 

renagade69

Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Messages
81
Reaction score
53
The Allison currently being used in the GM trucks is not an Allison. It was a GM project which included consultation by Allison along with Allison branding. It was developed by GM, manufactured by GM and used exclusively by GM. Don't let the branding fool you.

A Cummins / Allison combination would be the holy grail of drivetrains. There are countless professional mechanics and technicians that would agree so if you are angry don't point your finger at me.

Do I love the ZF behind my Hemi, hell yeah! Would I sell her and begin a new project if they began installing real Allisons behind the Hemi? Nah, my ZF is doing great, thank you.

But a Cummins and Allison combo for a work truck...unbeatable.
It's actually a Ford and GM project.
Wikipedia
This transmission is part of a joint-venture between Ford Motor Company and General Motors to design and engineer two transmissions, a longitudinal 10-speed transmission and a transverse 9-speed trans-axle. Each company will manufacture its own unique version of the transmissions in their own factories.[1][2] The 10-speed transmission was designed by Ford, while GM designed the 9-speed transmission which is used in transverse applications.
 
Joined
Jul 17, 2021
Messages
36
Reaction score
89
Location
Northern Colorado
If memory serves, the joint GM/Ford transmission you’re referencing only applies to the 1/2 Ton trucks and other smaller platforms. Pretty sure the heavy duty trucks are completely different and were designed “in house” for both manufacturers.
 

H3LZSN1P3R

You're doing it wrong
Joined
May 29, 2020
Messages
3,529
Reaction score
2,771
A Cummins / Allison combination would be the holy grail of drivetrains. There are countless professional mechanics and technicians that would agree so if you are angry don't point your finger at me
But a Cummins and Allison combo for a work truck...unbeatable.

they do have cummins/ allisons they are not as great as people would think my father inlaw manages a fleet of freightliner cube vans with just that setup the cummins is programed to defuel at shifts they tried deleting one where the tuner changed the defuel and they lost the trans 1000km later…..
 

duallyben

New Member
Joined
May 26, 2021
Messages
17
Reaction score
15
You guys that want more gears, honestly it's actually worse to tow with. In the last 15 months I have owned and run these.

2020 chev 3500 high country dually diesel 10 sp.

2021 ram 5500 SO diesel with Aisin and 4.44 rear got a 11ft deck.

2019 intetnational hv507 4x4 with cummins 8.9 and allison 3000 and 4.89 rear it got a flat deck.

My newest 2021 f600 with a 10 sp and a 4.88 it got a box though.

I have towed with the chev, ram, and international. The chev Trans blew up at 14800 km's, the exhaust brake was an absolute joke, useless unless you were going down a hill.

Fuel economy the chev empty was the same as the previous 2016 ram 3500 it replaced empty, took 15-20% more fuel towing the same trailer, same route.

Ford got a van body put on, I was hoping the would gear the Trans to match the only option of 4.88 rear diff, they didn't. Screams in 10th gear, my 5500 SO ram moves way better on the highway loaded.

The other issue with more gears is you need rpm to get the stopping power on the exhaust brake. The 10 speeds don't give you the rpm, the 6 speed does and the fuel economy is really not a factor that most think. The chev didn't make it a year before it was gone, such a poor towing vehicle with too many issues.

Honestly the 6 speeds are all you need, adding more gears just adds complexity and imo they sacrificed strength of the gears for more of them.
 

Brutal_HO

The Mad Irishman
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
6,446
Reaction score
7,731
Location
Douglas County, CO
I'd be happy with an updated AISIN 6-speed if it did 2nd gear no load starts. With only 6 it doesn't really need skip shift.

That said, I don't think the 8-speed ZF design compromises gear strength with the way they package it. As long as the input shaft and output planetary are stout. 2nd gear starts and skip shift are needed with the ZF.
 

UglyViking

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2020
Messages
436
Reaction score
447
Additional gears are better, assuming that FCA can make sure it's stout and tuned properly to leverage the gearing. You want your engine running in it's peak efficiency band, so the more gearing you have to keep the truck within that band the better. A CVT would probably be the best option technically, but there is 0 chance one could be manufactured durable enough and most people do not like the feel of a CVT trans. The biggest issue with more gears is having the truck know which gear it should be in and getting into and out of it quick. Every time you shift gears there will be a little power loss so the more you can minimize it the better it will be. If the truck is confused and always hunting then you're gonna get a negative value out of it.

That said, as @Epsilon Plus pointed out, the final gears are basically identical, and while you could put additional gears down lower the truck would skip them most of the time so it wouldn't matter. The cummins will be slower off the line due to the engine bore and stroke vs PS/Duramax trucks, but it will always pull better for that same reason. I think Ford really did the best in this new generation in terms of matching their block to trans. Their new 10 speed seems to be pretty stout and was well refined when I drove it. Wouldn't trust the GM branded "Allison" much, but I've also got a stock 68RFE and you know what they say about people living in glass houses…
 
Joined
Jul 17, 2021
Messages
36
Reaction score
89
Location
Northern Colorado
I think Ford really did the best in this new generation in terms of matching their block to trans. Their new 10 speed seems to be pretty stout and was well refined when I drove it.
Sadly this couldn’t be further from the truth. The new Torqshift transmission has been a hot mess for Ford. SERIOUS reliability problems. I have several friends that have 2019 or new F250-350’s and all but one has had transmission issues. Go over to one of the Superduty forums and check it out. It was enough for me to walk away from the 2021 had had ordered.
 
Last edited:

1996dram

New Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2021
Messages
15
Reaction score
14
I must admit I would have liked an Allison, but now that I've towed a 30 ft. 5th wheel with a small boat behind over the Rockies... I don't see the need for a 10 speed Tranny... Towing west on Rt 22 out from Jackson Wy. My 2021 3500 HD... stayed between 1600-2000RPM... Even though the Prius in front of me kept slowing down to about 15 mph.. on every curve.... This mountain pass is a 10% grade for about 10 miles.... On the down hill side the exhaust brake kept me off the brake all but 2 curves..... On a side note a family member bought a Chevy Colorado wit an 8spd. & a 4 cylinder... pulls ski boat to the lake just fine.... Small engines... are the reason for a 10 speed Tranny.... IMHO.....
 

UglyViking

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2020
Messages
436
Reaction score
447
Sadly this couldn’t be further from the truth. The new Torqshift transmission has been a hot mess for Ford. SERIOUS reliability problems. I have several friends that have 2019 or new F250-350’s and all but one has had transmission issues. Go over to one of the Superduty forums and check it out. It was enough for me to walk away from the 2021 had had ordered.
Are you thinking of the 10R140 or the 10R80? The 80 is in the F150 and was the collab between Ford/GM, that trans has been an absolute hot mess. The 140 is in the SD trucks and looks like it had a recall back in the early part of this year for a 1st planetary gear issue. I had not seen much on trans issues when I was looking mid 2019 but it was also brand new at that point. I also recently listened to a podcast with the Revmax guys and they stated that the things was in pretty great shape overall.

Clearly had a bug they fixed, or are fixing, but it seems to be better still than the GM/Chrysler options.
 

gimmie11s

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
1,155
Reaction score
1,251
Sadly this couldn’t be further from the truth. The new Torqshift transmission has been a hot mess for Ford. SERIOUS reliability problems. I have several friends that have 2019 or new F250-350’s and all but one has had transmission issues. Go over to one of the Superduty forums and check it out. It was enough for me to walk away from the 2021 had had ordered.

The 2019s have the 6r140 which is one of the best transmissions ever put into a LD truck.

The 20+ Super Duty trucks have the 10 speed which has proven to be issue-prone. That said, Ford will get it figured out. Theyve had the strongest light duty diesel transmission for over a decade now.

Allison lol.... trash. No thanks.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top