6.7 Engine Air Filter Confusion

[flan]

As if there isn’t enough confusion, amazon pulls off this one. Screenshoted from the TDR:

 

[OLEJOE]

I got the FleetGaurd filter instead of the Mopar.

 

[mbarber84]

As if there isn’t enough confusion, amazon pulls off this one. Screenshoted from the TDR:

View attachment 62858








View attachment 62859

That’s been happening for a while now.

All the more reason to avoid Amazon.

Geno’s garage, or walk in to your local commercial truck dealer and order the Fleetguard AF27684 for $45. Kenworth, Peterbilt, Freightliner, Western Star, and International can all order fleetguard. My local international dealer can get me all the service filters for our trucks. 3 day lead time at the most.

 

[baker01]

I just order new filters when I change them out. They sit on my shelve until needed.

 

[Brutal_HO]

software?
That’s the part I’m wondering about? Seems the earlier trucks weren’t having air filter or regen issues until they had the hpfp upgrade along with the latest and greatest updates. What exactly changed other than the fuel pump? The 19’s didn’t seem to have these issues if they didn’t have trouble with the cp4 fuel pump or have the updated pump installed.

I've had zero issues with my 2020 before or after the CP3.3 pump install.

Factory AB filter, last change AB filter. I guess I'm stuck with an AA filter I received when I ordered an AB off Amazon. Return window has long since passed. Maybe I can sell it to a Hemi guy.

 

[OLEJOE]

I went ahead and installed the new FleetGuard air filter while changing my oil and vacuumed the bugs out of the housing. The original 051AB wasn’t that dirty but I didn’t want to open it up more than necessary. Made a short towing trip (200 miles each way) and the truck runs completely different. It used to idle 50-75 rpm higher at times and It is able to make more boost when pulling. The two filters look the same but I don’t know what environment it was operated in before it reached the dealership. I don’t know or understand how that few of miles (6278) could put that much restriction in that few of miles.

Also my truck was doing a Regen every 10-12 hours and 3-400 miles. I currently have 14 hours and 600 miles and gauge is still on zero.

 

[DougB]

Ordered a new Fleetguard from Geno’s. Been running an AB, also from Geno’s, last 6k miles but with last 4 regens averaging 133mi between them figure will try a new filter. Original filter seemed to have longer intervals between regens but I never tracked. Noticed after changing all filters that truck seemed to regen more frequently. This AB looked different than the one delivered in the truck. Geno’s AB top. OEM bottom.

 

[mbarber84]

Ordered a new Fleetguard from Geno’s. Been running an AB, also from Geno’s, last 6k miles but with last 4 regens averaging 133mi between them figure will try a new filter. Original filter seemed to have longer intervals between regens but I never tracked. Noticed after changing all filters that truck seemed to regen more frequently. This AB looked different than the one delivered in the truck. Geno’s AB top. OEM bottom.

View attachment 63588

It’s the same filter, the old one might have been one of the ones that got “over oiled” from the manufacturer. There was a service bulletin out about that.

Your truck regenerating more isn’t likely due to the filter. You’re running the one that should be in there. If it’s regenerating more, your issue lies elsewhere. What model year and how many miles?
My 2022 HO has been on a steady decline since June - July. Regens were 800-1000 miles apart a few thousand miles ago, and are now on the 250-300 between cycle range. Not good.

 

[DougB]

It’s the same filter, the old one might have been one of the ones that got “over oiled” from the manufacturer. There was a service bulletin out about that.

Your truck regenerating more isn’t likely due to the filter. You’re running the one that should be in there. If it’s regenerating more, your issue lies elsewhere. What model year and how many miles?
My 2022 HO has been on a steady decline since June - July. Regens were 800-1000 miles apart a few thousand miles ago, and are now on the 250-300 between cycle range. Not good.

2022 2500 18k

Just checked my filter and it’s noticeably more yellow than when it went in 6k ago. It must yellow as it ages.

Guess these DPFs don’t get fully cleaned during a regen and just a matter of time before it’s clogged and requires deep cleaning outside the truck’s capability.

 

[mbarber84]

2022 2500 18k

Just checked my filter and it’s noticeably more yellow than when it went in 6k ago. It must yellow as it ages.

Guess these DPFs don’t get fully cleaned during a regen and just a matter of time before it’s clogged and requires deep cleaning outside the truck’s capability.

If the aftertreatment system is functioning as designed, and the engine is too, the system is set up so that it should clean itself of soot regularly for a long time under most normal operational conditions. Either by passive regeneration or active regeneration. The only thing that should slowly plug a DPF is ash, and if all else is operating correctly, ash build up should be a slow Build. There’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to easily achieve 100k + on one of these systems.

There are other factors causing these trucks to fail far too prematurely, and far too frequently.

 

[I Love Grits]

If the aftertreatment system is functioning as designed, and the engine is too, the system is set up so that it should clean itself of soot regularly for a long time under most normal operational conditions. Either by passive regeneration or active regeneration. The only thing that should slowly plug a DPF is ash, and if all else is operating correctly, ash build up should be a slow Build. There’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to easily achieve 100k + on one of these systems.

There are other factors causing these trucks to fail far too prematurely, and far too frequently.

Not to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, but if the system was designed to easily achieve >100K miles, why are those that know the inner workings of the system of a whole, far better than other of us (unless there are FCA engineers on this forum), only comfortable warranting it to 50K miles?

 

[mbarber84]

Not to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, but if the system was designed to easily achieve >100K miles, why are those that know the inner workings of the system of a whole, far better than other of us (unless there are FCA engineers on this forum), only comfortable warranting it to 50K miles?

Because there are far too many people that do not follow proper operating procedures or maintenance procedures. They’d end up replacing the system twice for free for idiots who let the truck sit on the side of the road or on a well pad and idle three times as much as they’re driven.

And I can assure you, if the people who you think know the system so well, actually knew the system so well, there wouldn’t be a list a mile long of trucks encountering P2459 regen frequency and no resolution to address it. There are some trucks that have been back to the dealer 5+ times and still have no resolution.

 

[I Love Grits]

Because there are far too many people that do not follow proper operating procedures or maintenance procedures. They’d end up replacing the system twice for free for idiots who let the truck sit on the side of the road or on a well pad and idle three times as much as they’re driven.

And I can assure you, if the people who you think know the system so well, actually knew the system so well, there wouldn’t be a list a mile long of trucks encountering P2459 regen frequency and no resolution to address it. There are some trucks that have been back to the dealer 5+ times and still have no resolution.

Those same operating procedures and maintenance requirements affect the powertrain too, right? But powertrain has a 100K mile warranty…

I’m not sure who you think would know a system better than the person who designs it? You’re also making the assumption that those individuals are unable to come up with a solution.

If you’ve ever worked in a corporate environment you’re probably very familiar with those that are the most technically competent usually are not in management for one reason or another. You probably have also experienced management being told something isn’t going to work the way they are expecting but it gets railroaded through anyways.

Your statement of multiple trips back to the dealer without fixing the issue is exactly what I mean.

The system was not designed to last 100K miles, despite other parts directly interrelated (powertrain) being granted a longer warranty. There is not a solution to the problem, which is a failing DPF system, because it was meant to be a throw away item.

Some dumbass engineer told FCA management of all the shortcomings and failure points of the system and how they needed to be remedied. That guy was told to go pound sand by some mid level “yes man” manager trying to appease his boss because he looks better coming in under budget, or without yet another revision etc. The system gets put to production, only to start failing just like the dumbass engineer said it would.

Dealers start calling asking for answers. The mid level manager goes to the dumbass engineer and asks for a solution to which he is told there is none other than a replacement of the system, which will fail in a similar manner when it’s short lifespan is reached.

They throw some bandaids at it to try and limp by because boy oh boy would you look like an idiot if you approved this engineered system knowing there was a chance it could fail prematurely and cause warranty issues. Nothing seems to be fixing it. They have no workable solutions other than the one the dumbass engineer said to begin with.

What’s really fun though, is that over in the ECM group, some kiss ass “yes man” mid level manager trying to make a name for himself will say that his group came up with a solution to the failing DPF systems by alternating the engine mapping. There will be negative affects somewhere else though, but those shouldn’t show up for some time. At that point, the trucks will be out of warranty and FCA is off the hook.

My point is, you saying the system should be a >100K mile sounds more like an expectation of what you think it should be, not what it actually is going to do. There are far too many trucks with increased frequency of regenerations (mine included) with less than 50K miles for it to be a one-off type event like a failed engine or trans.

Should it be a 100K system? Yes. That would be the considerate thing for FCA to do.

Is it actually a 100k system? Unfortunately, no. There is too much evidence to support it was never designed to be. Whether the dumbass engineer wanted it that way or not.

 

[mbarber84]

Those same operating procedures and maintenance requirements affect the powertrain too, right? But powertrain has a 100K mile warranty…

I’m not sure who you think would know a system better than the person who designs it? You’re also making the assumption that those individuals are unable to come up with a solution.

If you’ve ever worked in a corporate environment you’re probably very familiar with those that are the most technically competent usually are not in management for one reason or another. You probably have also experienced management being told something isn’t going to work the way they are expecting but it gets railroaded through anyways.

Your statement of multiple trips back to the dealer without fixing the issue is exactly what I mean.

The system was not designed to last 100K miles, despite other parts directly interrelated (powertrain) being granted a longer warranty. There is not a solution to the problem, which is a failing DPF system, because it was meant to be a throw away item.

Some dumbass engineer told FCA management of all the shortcomings and failure points of the system and how they needed to be remedied. That guy was told to go pound sand by some mid level “yes man” manager trying to appease his boss because he looks better coming in under budget, or without yet another revision etc. The system gets put to production, only to start failing just like the dumbass engineer said it would.

Dealers start calling asking for answers. The mid level manager goes to the dumbass engineer and asks for a solution to which he is told there is none other than a replacement of the system, which will fail in a similar manner when it’s short lifespan is reached.

They throw some bandaids at it to try and limp by because boy oh boy would you look like an idiot if you approved this engineered system knowing there was a chance it could fail prematurely and cause warranty issues. Nothing seems to be fixing it. They have no workable solutions other than the one the dumbass engineer said to begin with.

What’s really fun though, is that over in the ECM group, some kiss ass “yes man” mid level manager trying to make a name for himself will say that his group came up with a solution to the failing DPF systems by alternating the engine mapping. There will be negative affects somewhere else though, but those shouldn’t show up for some time. At that point, the trucks will be out of warranty and FCA is off the hook.

My point is, you saying the system should be a >100K mile sounds more like an expectation of what you think it should be, not what it actually is going to do. There are far too many trucks with increased frequency of regenerations (mine included) with less than 50K miles for it to be a one-off type event like a failed engine or trans.

Should it be a 100K system? Yes. That would be the considerate thing for FCA to do.

Is it actually a 100k system? Unfortunately, no. There is too much evidence to support it was never designed to be. Whether the dumbass engineer wanted it that way or not.

Yes very true, those same procedures affect the powertrain too. However the difference is, the ill effects of those types of operation generally take longer to manifest themselves. The aftertreatment system is far more susceptible to failure due to the number of different independent systems that can fail and ultimately create harm or damage to the system. Generally speaking, The system should last as much, or longer than the previous model years. Did Ram actually accomplish that? I don’t know. If they’ve made these systems so poor compared to previous generations, then shame on them. Especially given the price increases these trucks command. All of the previous fourth Gen ones we worked on (or owned) saw impeccable service and operation, and easily went 100k+ without any issue. There are a plethora of 2019+ trucks out there in daily use that have gone 100k plus without an issue. The trucks currently experiencing regeneration frequency issues are the victims of multiple different component failures, not all of which are related. And based on the research I’ve done so far, it doesn’t seem Ram has a solution. This isn’t a new problem. It’s been happening and increasing in severity for months upon months. Model years 2022 and 2023 are the most common cases, and most of them are sub-30,000 miles.

 

[phatboy64]

Maybe I am missing something about the “not lasting 100k miles” but I had 180k + on my 2014 and never had to replace anything from an emissions standpoint…are we saying the DPF won’t last 100k?

 

[mbarber84]

Maybe I am missing something about the “not lasting 100k miles” but I had 180k + on my 2014 and never had to replace anything from an emissions standpoint…are we saying the DPF won’t last 100k?

Pretty sure that’s what their point is.
I don’t buy it.
Under normal operating conditions 100k should be easily achievable. Its pretty much the benchmark in this industry. I don’t want to contribute anymore to a topic that’s divergent from this threads main point but to think these things were only designed to last 50k is ludicrous. If that were the case, every truck from 2019 forward would’ve been sold off and Ram would already be out of business. You don’t build the reputation Ram has for durability by designing one of the diesel pickup most expensive components to last only 50k miles in todays market.

 

[phatboy64]

I agree.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Pretty sure that’s what their point is.
I don’t buy it.
Under normal operating conditions 100k should be easily achievable. Its pretty much the benchmark in this industry. I don’t want to contribute anymore to a topic that’s divergent from this threads main point but to think these things were only designed to last 50k is ludicrous. If that were the case, every truck from 2019 forward would’ve been sold off and Ram would already be out of business. You don’t build the reputation Ram has for durability by designing one of the diesel pickup most expensive components to last only 50k miles in todays market.

There's a hotshot on another forum that would back you up.

From his sig for his current 2022 5500: "151,583 miles, 389 idle hours, and 2,632 drive hours as of October 2nd, 2023"

I don't know the exact miles when he retired it from service after buying the 5500, but his 2018 4500 had 461,054 miles and 8,045 drive hours on a post I found after he bought the 5500 where he was having a DEF issue. Looked like they replaced the DEF injector though the root cause was a leak/loose bolt.

2018 RAM 4500 Cab & Chassis DEF Injector leaking /...

www.cumminsforum.com

What's funny is his tongue-in-cheek posts about how unreliable his trucks are when he posts in his maintenance threads.

 

[rfullen280]

There's a hotshot on another forum that would back you up.

From his sig for his current 2022 5500: "151,583 miles, 389 idle hours, and 2,632 drive hours as of October 2nd, 2023"

I don't know the exact miles when he retired it from service after buying the 5500, but his 2018 4500 had 461,054 miles and 8,045 drive hours on a post I found after he bought the 5500 where he was having a DEF issue. Looked like they replaced the DEF injector though the root cause was a leak/loose bolt.

2018 RAM 4500 Cab & Chassis DEF Injector leaking /...

www.cumminsforum.com

What's funny is his tongue-in-cheek posts about how unreliable his trucks are when he posts in his maintenance threads.

Yeah, I would have to agree with you that these trucks are designed to be durable and long lasting. That is unless you modify the crap out of them and only drive them to the mall.

 

[OLEJOE]

Yeah, I would have to agree with you that these trucks are designed to be durable and long lasting. That is unless you modify the crap out of them and only drive them to the mall.

Or the EPA comes out with another emissions reduction regulation that the system can not operate properly with without a complete system redesign. Yeah conspiracy theory. Look around.