2500 vs. 3500 (both with factory auto level rear air suspension) towing stability with 1,000 lb TW and 8,000 lb travel trailer

[jebruns]

I would get the 3500. By the time you add the WDH, tongue weight, passengers, etc, you are very likely to be over the 10K limit. Sure, the 2500 CTD will still pull it with ease, but why not get the 3500 and not have to worry about it? I bought a 2500 knowing about the small load limits, but I am always within them. I looked hard at the 3500's when I ordered mine, thinking "future proof". But test drives showed me that the unloaded ride was much worse compared the 18 2500 air suspension truck I already owned. It was just not worth that compromise to me.

 

[Pasta4lnch]

Fwiw I chose the 3500 without bags. In my case the exact 2500 w bags and 3500 without bags was a $500 difference in cost. Hopefully she arrives in a week or so. I’ll post back once I hook up my TT…

 

[RiverRunner]

I just went through the OP's same decision process. I had a 2008 Ram Megacab 2500 diesel towing a 11,500 pound trailer. When we were doing a trip to ride dirt bikes, I usually also had the bed full of extra water, coolers, food, tools, etc. I weighed the rig and was over the truck's max hitch weight a couple times. While I installed Firestone airbags under the 2500, it helped the squat but still didn't solve the capacity issue. So when I recently bought a new '24 3500 Club Cab HO diesel long bed, I also got the air suspension. Have yet to tow with it, but it checked off all the issues I had with the 2500's low payload capacity. I'd have the diesel just for the turbo brake. It's more important to be able to run down a huge grade slow than it is to go up the grade fast.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I just went through the OP's same decision process. I had a 2008 Ram Megacab 2500 diesel towing a 11,500 pound trailer. When we were doing a trip to ride dirt bikes, I usually also had the bed full of extra water, coolers, food, tools, etc. I weighed the rig and was over the truck's max hitch weight a couple times. While I installed Firestone airbags under the 2500, it helped the squat but still didn't solve the capacity issue. So when I recently bought a new '24 3500 Club Cab HO diesel long bed, I also got the air suspension. Have yet to tow with it, but it checked off all the issues I had with the 2500's low payload capacity. I'd have the diesel just for the turbo brake. It's more important to be able to run down a huge grade slow than it is to go up the grade fast.

just an FYI they stopped making club cabs in 96…. Your only options in the HD these days is Reg cab, Crew cab or Mega cab.

 

[Moondongle]

We purchased a 2020 CTD 2500 Limited with air suspension. Great truck, but the payload was only around 1950lbs. We subsequently purchased a travel trailer with dry hitch weight of 950, with everything loaded for camping, hitch weight rose to 1300 lbs. This trailer is notorious for being tongue heavy. Regardless, that ate into our payload and we couldn't even carry our family, gear in the bed or our dog. We ended up getting a 23 CTD HO 3500 Limited with air suspension. It is harsher riding than the 2500 was empty, but I feel much better knowing I don't have to worry about future payload issues as the wife is considering a fifth wheel. Can't go wrong with the 3500.

 

[RiverRunner]

just an FYI they stopped making club cabs in 96…. Your only options in the HD these days is Reg cab, Crew cab or Mega cab.

You caught me in an error.

 

[Jeeper93436]

Greetings,

I think I have read all of the threads related to 2500 vs. 3500, both with and without factory auto level rear suspension!

I am considering a new CTD SRW 4x4 Mega Cab, either 2500 or 3500 (both with the factory auto level rear air suspension). On the 3500 I would get the standard output CTD with 68RFE.

I understand the 3500 with leaf springs and factory auto level rear air suspension gives more payload capacity and would be a better choice for future-proofing. Not looking to debate those issue here as they have been fully debated in other threads

However, if I am not concerned about future-proofing, and if I am comfortable that the payload of the 2500 would be ok, would the SRW 2500 or SRW 3500 provide a more stable towing experience with a 30' long, 1,000 lb tongue weight, 8,000 lb (loaded) travel trailer? (Assume both with factory auto level rear air suspension)

Would the air suspension of the SRW 2500 give more lateral support and sway protection than the leaf/air suspension of the SRW 3500? Or would the 3500 be better in this measure? (Assume without weight distribution or sway control -- just trying to understand which rear suspension option would give the best towing stability on its own prior to considering weight distribution or sway control.)

Thank you!

We just went through the same debate. If you are wondering what will handle better without a weight distribution or sway control hitch then go with a 3500. If you want a really good riding truck when empty and really good riding truck when loaded with a 8-9k pound Rv then go with the 2500 factory rear air ride suspension, with a weight distribution hitch. This is from my personal experience. We upgraded our truck to a 23 2500 mega cab with factory rear air ride suspension and this past weekend was my first time towing my 30’ toyhauler with a dry weight of 8400 and tongue weight of 900 and something pounds and I couldn’t believe how good it handled. On the way there I put my sway control and on the way back I didn’t put the sway control to compare and it made no difference in the handling or sway. I’m impressed with the rear air ride suspension on the 2500. People ask me how I like my new truck and the first thing I say is how good it rides!

 

[gimmie11s]

..... would the SRW 2500 or SRW 3500 provide a more stable towing experience with a 30' long, 1,000 lb tongue weight, 8,000 lb (loaded) travel trailer? (Assume both with factory auto level rear air suspension)

3500. Its not even close -- difference while towing is very noticeable. Ive owned both.

Would the air suspension of the SRW 2500 give more lateral support and sway protection than the leaf/air suspension of the SRW 3500?

Absolutely not.

The redeeming quality of the 2500 vs 3500 is unquestionably unloaded ride. The 2500 excels here. 3500 cannot compete.

Under tow, this dynamic completely changes and the leaf spring truck is a MUCH more confident tower that is more resilient to winds, Semi's passing you on the highway, and lateral forces trying to push you off the road.

 

[content]

Just wanted to say thank you for the additional feedback above. It is so helpful to learn from those of you with direct experience. Appreciate it!

 

[content]

Thanks again for the guidance above! Took delivery of the 3500 yesterday.

 

[Moondongle]

Enjoy the new truck!

 

[daemonic3]

It's funny to me I went through all this same decision stuff, without knowing this thread existed. But it basically confirms my decision on what I ordered last week for my needs.

I have an F150 and have been towing a 30' TT, and just updated to a 34' TT. We're still within weights (barely) with tongue scale verified 1050# and CAT scale verified total 8240#. Basically same situation as the OP. For the past 3 years we've only been doing weekend trips within 150 miles or so. We can continue this just fine with my current trailer, and if 10-day forecast predicts strong winds just cancel with a refund no big deal (the 34' length is probably not comfortable in crazy winds, though I've been fine with semis passing and whatnot). But, I can't put anything in my truck beyond myself and my wife.

Never thought I could get an HD truck of any brand until I found that Ram HD crewcab is only 6" longer than my F150. This opened a whole new world to me! I noticed that the 2500 w/cummins really limits your payload due to Ram "nerfing" their GVWR sticker at 10k. Since I want all the bells and whistles of high trim (and moonroof) I would likely be <2k payload rating. So I looked at 3500. Back (a month ago) when the "Towing capacity by VIN lookup" worked, I looked up some CCSB 3500's and their payloads, which were all around 3300-3400 at my desired trim level. Great! Cons online suggest a stiffer ride than a 2500 so I test drove a 3500, and it did not feel at all like a dealbreaker. Went unloaded on freeway, over some railroad tracks, and over some speed bumps. I honestly couldn't personally discern anything I would complain about, and perhaps the air suspension is really really helping offset the stiff leafs. So then, I noticed in inventory search that CCSB is already only about 20-30% of the entire inventory, and none near me (or nationwide!) have all the tow tech plus my moonroof plus ramboxes. So custom order it is!

Here is where the decisions come in: While you *can* get a SO cummins in a 3500, they simply don't exist on lots. Dealers overwhelmingly stock the HO cummins. But do I *need* the HO if I only want a daily driver with maybe 10% towing miles? I want the best MPG I can get, as long as I have more towing capability and payload than I'll ever need. In a 3500 CCSB, the HO only gives ~4k more towing "capacity" but eats into payload a little. You really can't take advantage of more capacity unless you go long bed or dually, which I absolutely am not able to park. Since my ultimate goal was just a 2500 with more payload than I'll ever need, that I should stick with SO cummins. It should give better MPG, especially through the lower gears with less RPMs, though at 6th gear they have equal gear ratios. Also kept the 18" wheels of standard longhorn vs "upgrade" of 20". In past research, 20" wheels add weight (rotational inertia) for slightly worse acceleration, and less comfortable ride. Likely not something I would ever notice but just going by what I've read, plus it saved $2k on my build.

Anyway, fun thread to catch up on. It confirms I'll be very comfortable with my current TT in my new 3500. And I'm future proofed for a 5er if the wife ever decides that is a must have some day (rambox and sidewinder hitch requirements aside).

Thanks for indulging,
-T

 

[content]

It's funny to me I went through all this same decision stuff, without knowing this thread existed. But it basically confirms my decision on what I ordered last week for my needs.

I have an F150 and have been towing a 30' TT, and just updated to a 34' TT. We're still within weights (barely) with tongue scale verified 1050# and CAT scale verified total 8240#. Basically same situation as the OP. For the past 3 years we've only been doing weekend trips within 150 miles or so. We can continue this just fine with my current trailer, and if 10-day forecast predicts strong winds just cancel with a refund no big deal (the 34' length is probably not comfortable in crazy winds, though I've been fine with semis passing and whatnot). But, I can't put anything in my truck beyond myself and my wife.

Never thought I could get an HD truck of any brand until I found that Ram HD crewcab is only 6" longer than my F150. This opened a whole new world to me! I noticed that the 2500 w/cummins really limits your payload due to Ram "nerfing" their GVWR sticker at 10k. Since I want all the bells and whistles of high trim (and moonroof) I would likely be <2k payload rating. So I looked at 3500. Back (a month ago) when the "Towing capacity by VIN lookup" worked, I looked up some CCSB 3500's and their payloads, which were all around 3300-3400 at my desired trim level. Great! Cons online suggest a stiffer ride than a 2500 so I test drove a 3500, and it did not feel at all like a dealbreaker. Went unloaded on freeway, over some railroad tracks, and over some speed bumps. I honestly couldn't personally discern anything I would complain about, and perhaps the air suspension is really really helping offset the stiff leafs. So then, I noticed in inventory search that CCSB is already only about 20-30% of the entire inventory, and none near me (or nationwide!) have all the tow tech plus my moonroof plus ramboxes. So custom order it is!

Here is where the decisions come in: While you *can* get a SO cummins in a 3500, they simply don't exist on lots. Dealers overwhelmingly stock the HO cummins. But do I *need* the HO if I only want a daily driver with maybe 10% towing miles? I want the best MPG I can get, as long as I have more towing capability and payload than I'll ever need. In a 3500 CCSB, the HO only gives ~4k more towing "capacity" but eats into payload a little. You really can't take advantage of more capacity unless you go long bed or dually, which I absolutely am not able to park. Since my ultimate goal was just a 2500 with more payload than I'll ever need, that I should stick with SO cummins. It should give better MPG, especially through the lower gears with less RPMs, though at 6th gear they have equal gear ratios. Also kept the 18" wheels of standard longhorn vs "upgrade" of 20". In past research, 20" wheels add weight (rotational inertia) for slightly worse acceleration, and less comfortable ride. Likely not something I would ever notice but just going by what I've read, plus it saved $2k on my build.

Anyway, fun thread to catch up on. It confirms I'll be very comfortable with my current TT in my new 3500. And I'm future proofed for a 5er if the wife ever decides that is a must have some day (rambox and sidewinder hitch requirements aside).

Thanks for indulging,
-T

Congrats on your order! We went with SO with 68RFE after lots of reading threads. I think it will be more than adequate for our current and anticipated towing needs. I had read some concerns about the Aisin shifting for daily driver so I leaned toward the 68RFE, and the 68RFE has slightly more affordable maintenance cycles. With that said, I also read others who love the Aisin even on daily driver, and HO/Aisin might be a good insurance policy to have in case ever need higher towing capacity. Even when waiting for the truck to be delivered, I had some second thoughts about not getting the HO. However, we are very happy with our first few drives with the SO. Agree with you on the ride. I read a lot of threads about 3500 vs 2500 ride and was a little worried. So far we love the ride of the 3500 with factory rear air suspension. I would have preferred 18" wheels, but 20" were OEM on our Limited build and I will probably stay with 20" but different tires than OEM.

 

[daemonic3]

Congrats on your order! We went with SO with 68RFE after lots of reading threads. I think it will be more than adequate for our current and anticipated towing needs. I had read some concerns about the Aisin shifting for daily driver so I leaned toward the 68RFE, and the 68RFE has slightly more affordable maintenance cycles. With that said, I also read others who love the Aisin even on daily driver, and HO/Aisin might be a good insurance policy to have in case ever need higher towing capacity. Even when waiting for the truck to be delivered, I had some second thoughts about not getting the HO. However, we are very happy with our first few drives with the SO. Agree with you on the ride. I read a lot of threads about 3500 vs 2500 ride and was a little worried. So far we love the ride of the 3500 with factory rear air suspension. I would have preferred 18" wheels, but 20" were OEM on our Limited build and I will probably stay with 20" but different tires than OEM.

Can you share your payload from sticker? And if you had moonroof, spray liner, rambox, and anything else that adds weight? Limited should be close to Longhorn with exception of my 18" wheels and a few other options. Also, you have mega not crew... From my research you're from 3300-3500 ballpark. I won't bother to ask MPG since its too new.

 

[daemonic3]

Congrats on your order! We went with SO with 68RFE after lots of reading threads. I think it will be more than adequate for our current and anticipated towing needs. I had read some concerns about the Aisin shifting for daily driver so I leaned toward the 68RFE, and the 68RFE has slightly more affordable maintenance cycles. With that said, I also read others who love the Aisin even on daily driver, and HO/Aisin might be a good insurance policy to have in case ever need higher towing capacity. Even when waiting for the truck to be delivered, I had some second thoughts about not getting the HO. However, we are very happy with our first few drives with the SO. Agree with you on the ride. I read a lot of threads about 3500 vs 2500 ride and was a little worried. So far we love the ride of the 3500 with factory rear air suspension. I would have preferred 18" wheels, but 20" were OEM on our Limited build and I will probably stay with 20" but different tires than OEM.

Oh, and what would be your reason for preferring 18"? It seems about 90% of dealer ordered Longhorns all add the 20" wheels for $2k, its a very rare option to keep the 18's. The price was good enough motivation for me since I don't have a visual preference, but if others are right about better ride and less weight (even though it is below sprung), that's just gravy for me. I think the current gen Rams look great no matter what. Limited forces 20" so no real decision to make (other than Night package wheels).

 

[content]

Can you share your payload from sticker? And if you had moonroof, spray liner, rambox, and anything else that adds weight? Limited should be close to Longhorn with exception of my 18" wheels and a few other options. Also, you have mega not crew... From my research you're from 3300-3500 ballpark. I won't bother to ask MPG since its too new.

Here you go. No moonroof, yes sprayliner. Other options listed in post.

Post in thread 'Please Post Payload Sticker from Driver's Door Jamb.' https://hdrams.com/forum/index.php?...ticker-from-drivers-door-jamb.218/post-299571

 

[content]

Oh, and what would be your reason for preferring 18"? It seems about 90% of dealer ordered Longhorns all add the 20" wheels for $2k, its a very rare option to keep the 18's. The price was good enough motivation for me since I don't have a visual preference, but if others are right about better ride and less weight (even though it is below sprung), that's just gravy for me. I think the current gen Rams look great no matter what. Limited forces 20" so no real decision to make (other than Night package wheels).

Mainly ride and a little better sidewall for offroad use. See my recent thread below for some insight. I also remember seeing an older thread with a lot of discussion on 18 vs 20.

Thread 'Tire Suggestions for 3500 SRW 4x4 for 60% Daily Driver/20% Highway Towing/20% Forest Roads? And 18” vs 20”?' https://hdrams.com/forum/index.php?...-towing-20-forest-roads-and-18”-vs-20”.16390/

 

[daemonic3]

Mainly ride and a little better sidewall for offroad use. See my recent thread below for some insight. I also remember seeing an older thread with a lot of discussion on 18 vs 20.

Thread 'Tire Suggestions for 3500 SRW 4x4 for 60% Daily Driver/20% Highway Towing/20% Forest Roads? And 18” vs 20”?' https://hdrams.com/forum/index.php?threads/tire-suggestions-for-3500-srw-4x4-for-60-daily-driver-20-highway-towing-20-forest-roads-and-18”-vs-20”.16390/

Fascinating thread with opinions both ways! Love it.

I just learned it seems quite common to air down the tires for daily driving. I also noticed on your door sticker that even though tires are the same front/rear, it recommends 65psi front and 80psi rear. Do you normally go 65/65 for daily? This would be easy for me to do as well since I always have my portable dewalt compressor handy (plan to keep it in my Ramboxes now!). Could probably get away with rear always 65 with only 1k tongue weight but I'm sure 80 would help with squish/sway anyway. I will only be doing some daily driving, few times a month NoCal commuting from Sac to Silicon Valley, and 5-7 weekend towing trips. With my new truck capability we can add maybe a long multiweek trip each summer without overloading payload or worrying about winds!

 

[content]

Fascinating thread with opinions both ways! Love it.

I just learned it seems quite common to air down the tires for daily driving. I also noticed on your door sticker that even though tires are the same front/rear, it recommends 65psi front and 80psi rear. Do you normally go 65/65 for daily? This would be easy for me to do as well since I always have my portable dewalt compressor handy (plan to keep it in my Ramboxes now!). Could probably get away with rear always 65 with only 1k tongue weight but I'm sure 80 would help with squish/sway anyway. I will only be doing some daily driving, few times a month NoCal commuting from Sac to Silicon Valley, and 5-7 weekend towing trips. With my new truck capability we can add maybe a long multiweek trip each summer without overloading payload or worrying about winds!

I am in the early learning stage on the air pressure topic. Mine are currently at the 65 front/80 rear that the dealer set them at for delivery. And I actually find the ride firm but not objectionable. I will experiment with lower tire pressures over the next few weeks.

The following thread is where I learned more about lower pressures for daily driving. It is a very good thread. https://hdrams.com/forum/index.php?threads/21-3500-rear-air-suspension-smoooth-ride.4477/

And this is the other thread that I mentioned about 18" vs 20" wheels https://hdrams.com/forum/index.php?threads/18-or-20.3665/

 

[daemonic3]

New question for the OP (@content): Since we have similar TT weights and 3500's, are you using a WDH? I read that whole other thread about the air suspension and wow - I have a lot to learn (also, a little worrysome about the uneven driver/passenger sides not equal?). One thing I am having trouble googling is how you are supposed to use the Alt Height when hooking up your TT, and if you are using a WDH (I know its not required for these weights but I would like to to help sway - I have the short 149" wheelbase) what order do you do everything.

In my head I was thinking the Alt Height actually *adds* air to the bags to offset the loaded hitch. But it does the opposite and LOWERS the rear height by about 1", to level it from the unloaded 1" factory rake. So you do that first. Then add the trailer. Now, if not using a WDH, do you *keep* the Alt Height set while towing, or do you return it to normal? I would think that it would currently be a little lower in rear and higher in front than when it was leveled using the Alt Height mode, but only slightly due to the fact its a 1 ton beefy suspension.

Now, I intend to use my WDH for sway help, and as a bonus return some weight back to the front and trailer axles. So I should 1) set Alt Height mode, 2) add trailer, 3) use hitch to distribute back to level, then 4) definitely keep the Alt Height mode, right?

So many videos and forum posts all over the map, many with 1500s and 2500s air suspensions or aftermarket airbags, muddying up the waters. I can't find a good TT hookup video for a 3500 except JB Reviews but of course he doesn't use a WDH and his video was a little ambiguous on whether you keep Alt Height while towing or only use it to hook up.

I'll keep researching when I get more time, but if someone in my similar situation (8K+ pound TT with a 3500+Air SRW) already knows then its worth a shot asking here first.

Thanks!
-T