2025 Ram Heavy Duty To Get New ZF Powerline® 8-Speed

[LegendaryLawman]

I think moving to the ZF will be a big win for RAM. The medium duty market is a different animal where the application of components has to work or you get lawsuits like International on there engines. The Point of these trucks is for work but for a large number of people that drive them like a light switch and expect them to last forever. Clutches need time to apply and torque should be applied smooth. That all said I have a 19'HO deleted and its really fun to drive it like a teenager sometimes lol. Frankly when it was stock I was really impressed with the factory tuning of the truck the turbo lag leaves something to be desired but the truck is built to tow and does it well.

Additionally on the Medium duty market. I managed a fleet of trucks equipped with Allison 3000 and 6.7 Cummins. These were all loaded to 100-120,000 lbs. 20 hrs. a day and drove by kids that just got a license i.e.. to the wood everywhere. other than a few warranty claims on leaking clutch's (known for on specific models). we had trucks with 20,000 hrs. and 80-100000 KM. The highest hour and milage ones typically had no major repairs causing there retainment.

My own truck is a frieghtliner single axle truck lives at 28000 lbs. does hills and runs in a mine all day. never had issues L9 Cummins with Allison 3500. Many co workers have Paccar trucks with autos and again no thought on trans issues.

Point is application, maintenance and operator are major contributors to success of a drive trains, the auto industries need to reinvent the wheel every year with bigger better offering meanwhile passing heavy R&D on to customer covered via warranty is crappy and does not led its self the the former two factors mentioned.

I think progress is good and Ram has always had some lacking in the trans sector. I just don’t see the ZF as being a fix all. The start stop feature, harder to maintain, skip shift, etc just don’t seem like it will raise reliability. The biggest benefit I see is the PTO option. I also fully expect for Ram to cheap out and have ZF save .62 cents here and there by using borderline substandard materials that will fail as planned obsolescence outside of the warranty period.

Maybe I’m wrong and it will be a bad a** trans but who knows

 

[mbarber84]

I think progress is good and Ram has always had some lacking in the trans sector. I just don’t see the ZF as being a fix all. The start stop feature, harder to maintain, skip shift, etc just don’t seem like it will raise reliability. The biggest benefit I see is the PTO option. I also fully expect for Ram to cheap out and have ZF save .62 cents here and there by using borderline substandard materials that will fail as planned obsolescence outside of the warranty period.

Maybe I’m wrong and it will be a bad a** trans but who knows

Ram has already had an utterly reliable transmission in the pickups since 2013 when the Aisin AS69RC was introduced. Aside from the ones that suffered a bad snap ring problem, the transmission has been absolutely stellar in its performance and long term reliability. Significantly better than its lackluster 68RFE counterpart. It’s not uncommon to see hotshot trucks with 500k or more on the original drivetrain. This ZF unit comes directly from the commercial side of the transmission industry, just like the Aisin did. Between ZF’s reputation and engineering, and the need for commercial transmissions to be reliable longterm, I very highly doubt there will be any serious reliability issues with the new offering. This is a product 5+ years in the making. It wasn’t cobbled together overnight.

 

[jsalbre]

lol, Ram is not using cheap or inferior u-joints… they simply have size constraints. They are huge, just not enough for 1075 ft/lbs and a 3-4:1 1st gear.



I like torque management, to a point. It keeps components alive and lets us have more power when we need it, such as the upper gears where we lose torque multiplication. 1075 isn’t needed in 1-3rd gear, but it’s really nice in 4-6.

Yes the trans is the current weak link, but if you build a trans to hold full power in lower gears and hook up to 25K lbs you will find that the rest of the drivetrain is undersized.

People forget about torque multiplication from gearing. Ignoring drivetrain loss for the sake of easier math, 1075 ft-lbs * 4.71 first gear = 5063 into the transfer case * 2.72 transfer case low range = 13,722 going to the joints and drive shafts, * 4.10 final drive = 56,465 ft-lbs of torque. Without torque management there’s few components on the truck that can handle what they’d see full out.

 

[Enve46]

I think progress is good and Ram has always had some lacking in the trans sector. I just don’t see the ZF as being a fix all. The start stop feature, harder to maintain, skip shift, etc just don’t seem like it will raise reliability. The biggest benefit I see is the PTO option. I also fully expect for Ram to cheap out and have ZF save .62 cents here and there by using borderline substandard materials that will fail as planned obsolescence outside of the warranty period.

Maybe I’m wrong and it will be a bad a** trans but who knows

Forgive the way my question may sound but why do you feel so much negativity towards a transmission that otherwise has great reviews in their current applications? In addition to ZFs reputation

 

[mbarber84]

Forgive the way my question may sound but why do you feel so much negativity towards a transmission that otherwise has great reviews in their current applications? In addition to ZFs reputation

He didn’t get the tag “Legendary Pessimist” by accident. Negativity and inaccuracy are routine with that one.

 

[AH64ID]

He didn’t get the tag “Legendary Pessimist” by accident. Negativity and inaccuracy are routine with that one.

The sky is always falling.

 

[LegendaryLawman]

He didn’t get the tag “Legendary Pessimist” by accident. Negativity and inaccuracy are routine with that one.

Innaccuracy is your incorrect opinion. Let’s see some facts. Plenty of positivity on good things- the world isn’t rosy.

 

[LegendaryLawman]

Forgive the way my question may sound but why do you feel so much negativity towards a transmission that otherwise has great reviews in their current applications? In addition to ZFs reputation

If the ZF turns out better than I expect- great. The biggest benefit I can see is the PTO option for a small pool of users.

ZF trans in the 1/2 tons hasn’t been a world class transmission - it has its own set of problems.

The ZF used in medium class Freightliner style trucks will not be the same one used in Rams. The Ram one will be cost cut to fit into stellantis corporate numbers.

Electric dash shifter- expensive replacement that will not outlive the column shifter. Not a widespread problem but fleets have issues with them.
Neutral shifting at every stop- this will cause excessive wear to save a few % fuel economy.
No dipstick, hard to change fluid and gimmick lifetime fluid. There is no such thing as lifetime fluid.
Streamlining SO and HO Cummins into one- basically everyone is stuck with the HO Cummins moving forward with 2-3mpg less, using a new transmission that might get 10% better fuel economy (maybe half that the numbers are always a lie since it’s such a controlled test). HO is forced on customers who don’t need it and don’t need to brag about mine is bigger than yours which the SO is plenty powerful enough for 80% of buyers.
This new trans will likely be far more expensive to upgrade, rebuilt or might even be impossible to tune like the Aisin. Not sure time will tell.

Hopefully the ZF is a good trans but I just don’t see the grass being greener on the other side. The mods here are not a fan of mine here but I like to speak the truth unlike having blind loyalty. I’ve owned 3 rams, love them but I’m not everything is great because Ram said so.

 

[duallyben]

I have driven trucks in the 30-40k lb with anywhere from 6-18 gears in different trucks. More gears is not better honestly, you all need to get past that idea.

Most driving is on the the highway and so the only gears that matter for fuel economy especially are the last one or 2 I find especially while loaded or towing.

I have owned and operated between a 2021 ram 5500 and 2021 ford F600 as an example of 2. Ram has better fuel economy by 20-25%, better exhaust brake by a mile, and better take off and towing at the top end. The 10 sp in the ford is bloody awful on the highway for over downshifting on slight declines and not downshifting when requesting power to pass.

I blew up a 2020 chevy 3500 drw 10sp transmission at 9k miles towing 17k lbs trailer, that got traded in not long after that. (2019 international hv507 5t 4x4 8.9 cummins with jake, Allison 3000)

I guess what I am trying to say with the power numbers in the engines having more gears is not always better. The only way your fuel economy gets better is if they use those extra gears to lower your final gear ratio imo. A 10sp and 4.11 or 6sp and 4.11 same economy assuming the rpm's to speed are similar. 10sp to a 3.42 or lower is when you will start seeing the savings imo.

Also remember exhaust brakes need rpm's to work, so for that to work with more gears successfully downshifting will be required.

 

[LegendaryLawman]

I have driven trucks in the 30-40k lb with anywhere from 6-18 gears in different trucks. More gears is not better honestly, you all need to get past that idea.

Most driving is on the the highway and so the only gears that matter for fuel economy especially are the last one or 2 I find especially while loaded or towing.

I have owned and operated between a 2021 ram 5500 and 2021 ford F600 as an example of 2. Ram has better fuel economy by 20-25%, better exhaust brake by a mile, and better take off and towing at the top end. The 10 sp in the ford is bloody awful on the highway for over downshifting on slight declines and not downshifting when requesting power to pass.

I blew up a 2020 chevy 3500 drw 10sp transmission at 9k miles towing 17k lbs trailer, that got traded in not long after that. (2019 international hv507 5t 4x4 8.9 cummins with jake, Allison 3000)

I guess what I am trying to say with the power numbers in the engines having more gears is not always better. The only way your fuel economy gets better is if they use those extra gears to lower your final gear ratio imo. A 10sp and 4.11 or 6sp and 4.11 same economy assuming the rpm's to speed are similar. 10sp to a 3.42 or lower is when you will start seeing the savings imo.

Also remember exhaust brakes need rpm's to work, so for that to work with more gears successfully downshifting will be required.

I'm actually happy ram stuck with just an 8 speed. 10 speeds in the fords I would agree are a joke. 6 speeds was plenty already but they are trying to stretch a little more for CAFE standards. Its a numbers game

 

[Enve46]

If the ZF turns out better than I expect- great. The biggest benefit I can see is the PTO option for a small pool of users.

ZF trans in the 1/2 tons hasn’t been a world class transmission - it has its own set of problems.

The ZF used in medium class Freightliner style trucks will not be the same one used in Rams. The Ram one will be cost cut to fit into stellantis corporate numbers.

Electric dash shifter- expensive replacement that will not outlive the column shifter. Not a widespread problem but fleets have issues with them.
Neutral shifting at every stop- this will cause excessive wear to save a few % fuel economy.
No dipstick, hard to change fluid and gimmick lifetime fluid. There is no such thing as lifetime fluid.
Streamlining SO and HO Cummins into one- basically everyone is stuck with the HO Cummins moving forward with 2-3mpg less, using a new transmission that might get 10% better fuel economy (maybe half that the numbers are always a lie since it’s such a controlled test). HO is forced on customers who don’t need it and don’t need to brag about mine is bigger than yours which the SO is plenty powerful enough for 80% of buyers.
This new trans will likely be far more expensive to upgrade, rebuilt or might even be impossible to tune like the Aisin. Not sure time will tell.

Hopefully the ZF is a good trans but I just don’t see the grass being greener on the other side. The mods here are not a fan of mine here but I like to speak the truth unlike having blind loyalty. I’ve owned 3 rams, love them but I’m not everything is great because Ram said so.

Ok Ive got to refute some of these things...

1) The ZF in the 1500s has been phenomenal. Ive had 3 TRXs and that transmission has taken a beating. The ZF has also performed flawlessly in my wife Audi Q8 and my previous BMWs- I bring this up cause I dont p***y foot any vehicle, they all take abuse.

2) None of the following have been confirmed: Electronic dash shifter, Neutral shifting, dipstick/lifetime fluid, SO/HO into one option. There's been no official word from Ram on anything, purely rumors at this point. Credible rumors or not, NOTHING has been confirmed.

I understand the skepticism on something new and the potential issues that may arise. Even if everything you said is true, it eliminates the 68RFE that has been an issue since its been released. Sure there are lots of 68RFEs that worked great for 100s of thousands of miles. But there's a large percentage that have failed early at the worst possible times on otherwise stock trucks. And Id be willing to bet that % is far higher than its counterparts.

 

[mbarber84]

Ok Ive got to refute some of these things...

1) The ZF in the 1500s has been phenomenal. Ive had 3 TRXs and that transmission has taken a beating. The ZF has also performed flawlessly in my wife Audi Q8 and my previous BMWs- I bring this up cause I dont p***y foot any vehicle, they all take abuse.

2) None of the following have been confirmed: Electronic dash shifter, Neutral shifting, dipstick/lifetime fluid, SO/HO into one option. There's been no official word from Ram on anything, purely rumors at this point. Credible rumors or not, NOTHING has been confirmed.

I understand the skepticism on something new and the potential issues that may arise. Even if everything you said is true, it eliminates the 68RFE that has been an issue since it’s been released. Sure there are lots of 68RFEs that worked great for 100s of thousands of miles. But there's a large percentage that have failed early at the worst possible times on otherwise stock trucks. And Id be willing to bet that % is far higher than its counterparts.

Well said.

The ZF 8HP75 behind the gas engines has proven to be incredibly reliable longterm with very few issues across a very long life and application range. I’m in regular contact with multiple ram technicians for stuff like this. They have not, and are not problematic transmissions. ZF is a German company that holds its prestige and reputation in high regard. Their transmissions are in use in some of the most demanding applications in the world today. Heavy haul, off road equipment, as well as sports cars and high end luxury vehicles. They have an excellent reputation across the board. Rams move to use them for the next transmission is a smart one.

I inquired into the reliability of the electronic shifter when it was brought into question in this thread. I spoke with four level 3 Ram technicians in three states. All of whom are the go-to techs in their respective locations. None…..not one….of them has ever had to replace or repair the electronic shift module (knob style) in any of the series of Ram trucks in which it is currently used. Could there be some failures? Sure, but I’m pretty certain if it was widespread, at least one of these techs would have replaced one or two by now. Collectively they’re at about 45 years of experience. They’re just simply not a common fail point. As far as providing “facts” to back up that claim? The same could be said for anyone claiming they’re an issue. Ram isn’t going to give out that information and there’s no go-to place to find such proof.

 

[mbarber84]

If the ZF turns out better than I expect- great. The biggest benefit I can see is the PTO option for a small pool of users.

ZF trans in the 1/2 tons hasn’t been a world class transmission - it has its own set of problems.

The ZF used in medium class Freightliner style trucks will not be the same one used in Rams. The Ram one will be cost cut to fit into stellantis corporate numbers.

Electric dash shifter- expensive replacement that will not outlive the column shifter. Not a widespread problem but fleets have issues with them.
Neutral shifting at every stop- this will cause excessive wear to save a few % fuel economy.
No dipstick, hard to change fluid and gimmick lifetime fluid. There is no such thing as lifetime fluid.
Streamlining SO and HO Cummins into one- basically everyone is stuck with the HO Cummins moving forward with 2-3mpg less, using a new transmission that might get 10% better fuel economy (maybe half that the numbers are always a lie since it’s such a controlled test). HO is forced on customers who don’t need it and don’t need to brag about mine is bigger than yours which the SO is plenty powerful enough for 80% of buyers.
This new trans will likely be far more expensive to upgrade, rebuilt or might even be impossible to tune like the Aisin. Not sure time will tell.

Hopefully the ZF is a good trans but I just don’t see the grass being greener on the other side. The mods here are not a fan of mine here but I like to speak the truth unlike having blind loyalty. I’ve owned 3 rams, love them but I’m not everything is great because Ram said so.

Neither are any of us.

If you care to look at all of the responses we have collectively given, you’ll find we’re more than willing to call out Ram when they’ve made mistakes, and have done so on numerous occasions

 

[tcedgar8]

I think progress is good and Ram has always had some lacking in the trans sector. I just don’t see the ZF as being a fix all. The start stop feature, harder to maintain, skip shift, etc just don’t seem like it will raise reliability. The biggest benefit I see is the PTO option. I also fully expect for Ram to cheap out and have ZF save .62 cents here and there by using borderline substandard materials that will fail as planned obsolescence outside of the warranty period.

Maybe I’m wrong and it will be a bad a** trans but who knows

Your probably not wrong about planned obsolescence. I researched what I could on all three major manufactures of 3500 truck trans options had glaring corners cut from cheap clutch material to cheap electronics. The PTO option is what ever as Aisin has the same thing that I know of in chassis cab models. Id like to agree on the add on features but I feel like its not huge deal as no real load is applied when it shifts into neutral. The skip shift is a matter of programing. ZF is not a a fix all but at this point anything is better than the 68RFE.

 

[mbarber84]

You’re probably not wrong about planned obsolescence. I researched what I could on all three major manufactures of 3500 truck trans options had glaring corners cut from cheap clutch material to cheap electronics. The PTO option is what ever as Aisin has the same thing that I know of in chassis cab models. Id like to agree on the add on features but I feel like it’s not huge deal as no real load is applied when it shifts into neutral. The skip shift is a matter of programing. ZF is not a a fix all but at this point anything is better than the 68RFE.

There isn’t a vehicle out there today that doesn’t have planned obsolescence built into it at various points. It’s just part of life today. The days of these trucks being designed to last forever are long gone. No manufacturer is going to build them to withstand the test of time. It’s corporate suicide. Mack trucks used to be that way, and now they’re owned by Volvo. When you don’t sell enough new trucks, you don’t survive.

ZF is touting twice the PTO torque of the former Aisin, which gives it greater flexibility and a wider range of useful applications. Not to mention a 10% fuel savings over the Aisin. They’ve had five or so years to get this all together. I firmly believe the execution will be stalwart. If you think back to when the Aisin was first introduced in the pickups (2013), that was a new revised version over the previous AS68 used in the cab and chassis trucks. They put them in the pickups with the revised architecture and they were pretty much bulletproof. From 2013 to 2024, the only real hiccup in the Aisin’s track record was the snap ring failure issue from 2022 and early 23. We’re talking 5,000 - 6,000 trucks total (roughly 188,000 produced in that time frame) and truthfully it’s not something the transmission did wrong. Aisin was the victim of a poorly manufactured component that unfortunately made its way to the assembly line. The transmission was basically bomb proof for 11 years. So much so, that when the K1 snap ring issue hit, Ram was woefully underprepared to supply the parts because they didn’t stock them in any great quantities

 

[Brutal_HO]

There isn’t a vehicle out there today that doesn’t have planned obsolescence built into it at various points. It’s just part of life today. The days of these trucks being designed to last forever are long gone. No manufacturer is going to build them to withstand the test of time. It’s corporate suicide. Mack trucks used to be that way, and now they’re owned by Volvo. When you don’t sell enough new trucks, you don’t survive.

ZF is touting twice the PTO torque of the former Aisin, which gives it greater flexibility and a wider range of useful applications. Not to mention a 10% fuel savings over the Aisin. They’ve had five or so years to get this all together. I firmly believe the execution will be stalwart. If you think back to when the Aisin was first introduced in the pickups (2013), that was a new revised version over the previous AS68 used in the cab and chassis trucks. They put them in the pickups with the revised architecture and they were pretty much bulletproof. From 2013 to 2024, the only real hiccup in the Aisin’s track record was the snap ring failure issue from 2022 and early 23. We’re talking 5,000 - 6,000 trucks total (roughly 188,000 produced in that time frame) and truthfully it’s not something the transmission did wrong. Aisin was the victim of a poorly manufactured component that unfortunately made its way to the assembly line. The transmission was basically bomb proof for 11 years. So much so, that when the K1 snap ring issue hit, Ram was woefully underprepared to supply the parts because they didn’t stock them in any great quantities

However it's made, RevMax will no doubt bash it.

 

[thecastle]

I've owned several vehicles with ZF 8HP70/75. A positive of this trans (or version) is that there is a ton of aftermarket tunes available for the ZF8HP, so those with HO engines if it gets used for that application MAY well be able to tune their trans.

 

[gpattikjr]

I've owned several vehicles with ZF 8HP70/75. A positive of this trans (or version) is that there is a ton of aftermarket tunes available for the ZF8HP, so those with HO engines if it gets used for that application MAY well be able to tune their trans.

An aftermarket swap would be interesting depending on how they hold up and $$$

 

[Grateful Dad]

As for the shifter, I get it some folks don’t like the knob but ALL Ram trucks are electronically shifted, even those with a column or in the center console. Twist the knob, pull down on the column (hopefully it didn’t come loose), or pull the shift lever back, it’s just giving commands to the same servo/mechanism to make the shift, just say’n………..

 

[mbarber84]

As for the shifter, I get it some folks don’t like the knob but ALL Ram trucks are electronically shifted, even those with a column or in the center console. Twist the knob, pull down on the column (hopefully it didn’t come loose), or pull the shift lever back, it’s just giving commands the same servo/mechanism to make the shift, just say’n………..

Definitely.
The knob shifter makes sense and will likely be the choice they go with. It’s readily available and also cleans up the dash and interior. No more rubber boots to wear out and no loose 10mm bolt causing a loose shifter.