2022 Ram 3500 - Towing Disappointment Justified?

[pinco]

Interesting feedback across the board. I suppose I’ll give it more time, but just wonder if anyone has directly compared SO to HO and if there is an objective difference, all things equal.

I’ve never been able to compare the two towing, but I have tried both vehicles SO, HO, 4:10 rear, Aisen trans. I went with the HO 4:10 Aisen, and have no problem pulling anything at all. I don’t think you should have any problem with the so either though, with the weight your towing. You’re not running on dirty clogged fuel filters by any chance?

 

[Blythkd1]

“Reduced fuel economy and power may be seen at this time”. They set it in the computer to drop the power as i read it and its clearly a thing if everyone notices the power difference.

Seems to leave a lot to interpretation. And while it certainly could be interpreted as the truck being detuned, especially since they mention a precise time period, I interpret it as the engine just needs that amount of time to be broken in, especially from the fuel mileage angle. And I don't care if they say it doesn't require break in, there's still some breaking in taking place. My mileage has improved virtually every tank of fuel.

If there's truly a detune involved in the programming, the tuner guys would clearly see it which undoubtedly would have spawned conversations about it.

I guess time will tell. I'm looking forward to a few more tanks of fuel and 25MPGLOL

 

[buzzuti]

A partial digression from the subject to some extent;

I know software way more than engines to be honest, however...
Vehicles these days gather a shocking amount of telemetry data (rotational, longitudinal, etc, etc, etc).
All of this data is gathered and run against machine learning models to constantly optimize and even predict operations.
The Cummins engine, from my understanding, will "tune" (electronically) to your driving style over time from the processing this data (both in the vehicle and in the cloud).

As the Machine Learning Models get better and better, over time (with more data), the better things will be "tuned".

Quick analogy
Think about how you see ads on the interwebs for products or subjects you just had a conversation about.
It isn't because Google is "listening", it is because there are leveraging AI and Machine learning and have several what are called "digital twins" of you.
(seriously a legit replica of all of your patterns and routines, choices etc, i know freaking frightening)
They track your every movement to the point they can accurately predict not only what your are feeling, but what your are even thinking.
And they tune your internet experience to you. No ******** here, honestly this is a thing. (privacy is dead)

So, full circle, it honestly sounds like there may be more going on here if the power is that lacking and a F-350 was better (by the numbers I do not believe that is possible, depending on configuration esp if you are an HO, idk)
Probably something worth having checked out honestly.

I concur with others, you should expect performance to mature over time, absolutely!

 

[tahoepg]

I’ve never been able to compare the two towing, but I have tried both vehicles SO, HO, 4:10 rear, Aisen trans. I went with the HO 4:10 Aisen, and have no problem pulling anything at all. I don’t think you should have any problem with the so either though, with the weight your towing. You’re not running on dirty clogged fuel filters by any chance?

Candidly, the truck is brand new, so all of the conversation is leading me to believe I just need to be patient.

 

[sstoner911]

I have owned a 2021 SO (3.73) and now the 2022 HO (4.10). Towing 15-20K in both was not an issue. The HO certainly has more get up and go off the line and i felt it pulls better upgrades, however, I never experienced any issues passing wit the SO with a load. Wit that said I typically would lock out 6th if the uphill grade was a pretty good climb. I like do like to keep the RPMS around 2K on a climb.

 

[sstoner911]

Candidly, the truck is brand new, so all of the conversation is leading me to believe I just need to be patient.

Keep in mind the computer is not going to let you harm the trans etc when you are stock so there may be some "detuning" to keep you within safe operating limits - or at least thats how its been described to me.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Believe it or not it is kind of stated in the manual under break in

Read the Note. Its not direct but it is there


View attachment 42079

I know what's in the manual and that was the point of my post. Other references actually use the term "cylinder finishing" or polishing.

However, you're claiming that they are programmatically detuned until 6K and I think you just pulled that outta your a$$.

 

[RockaRhyme]

It's funny, but I just crossed 6k in my SO a couple weeks ago and swear it feels quicker and the MPG has come up 2-3 miles. My driving routine is very... well, routine, and so I know I'm not doing anything differently. I'm confident the break-in boost is real, but I doubt it's programmed in. Tt seemed to roll in over the last month; I was getting about 13mpg, then 14, 15 and this morning I'm at 16mpg with 95% of my miles on secondary and backroads.

I'm taking our camper up to Niagara Falls this weekend and I'm excited to see how the broken-in engine performs over a 6 hour trip with some weight behind the truck. Our camper is MUCH MUCH smaller than your though. Maybe 6k loaded, probably less. We're looking forward to upgrading this off-season.

I also wonder if the warmer summer weather has things getting up to proper temps faster which might be amplifying the break-in effect.

 

[Brutal_HO]

The trucks do improve, of that there is no doubt.

It is cylinder finishing/honing. The engine is already broken in (rings seated), it's just getting a better seal as you work it. Guys that don't work them could be 20K or 30K before they see it.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I know what's in the manual and that was the point of my post. Other references actually use the term "cylinder finishing" or polishing.

However, you're claiming that they are programmatically detuned until 6K and I think you just pulled that outta your a$$.

Its nothing new companys have been doing break in tuning for years. Ill have to do some digging

 

[Firebird]

My SO dually pulls effortlessly! Downshifting when needed and maintains speed with ease. I didn't know about the 6000 mile limit myself, but honestly, it pulled fantastic from my first hookup at 700 miles.

 

[Aero_Dave]

We’ll my new 2022 HO 3500 Dually pulled my new 5th-wheel at around 18,000lbs with only 750 miles on it, with no problems. I felt I had plenty of power while towing too. I also had a 2015 HO 3500 Dually that towed easily as well , but I can tell this one has More torque & power for sure.

Dave…

 

[sstoner911]

I have 20K on my truck - power, MPG has been the same since driving it off the lot.

 

[Oneday997]

I've got an HO and we regularly tow a living quarters horse trailer that clocks in over 30,000lbs fully loaded with horses and gear. Never had an issue with power and we live in Colorado so it gets plenty of mountain driving. You feel the weight heading up places like Floyd Hill (extended 6% grade), and the truck is definitely working, but we can easily pass the semi-trucks and hold a steady 60- 65mph. I posted a comparison to an F450 that I spent 16 hours towing a similar trailer with and I felt like the power was very similar, though the torque comes on differently in each. The HO Ram feels like it has more grunt down low and off the line, but the F450 felt a bit livelier from 60mph-80mph. Going up steep grades, the Ram felt like it could dig deeper and hold momentum better. Hope your experience improves with time.

 

[darrellr]

I know what's in the manual and that was the point of my post. Other references actually use the term "cylinder finishing" or polishing.

However, you're claiming that they are programmatically detuned until 6K and I think you just pulled that outta your a$$.

I will say this, though, if it were only cylinder finishing or polishing, I think the improvement would be fairly linear and consistent but minute improvements over time. Obviously all of the stories are anecdotal and not scientific studies, it seems described as a flipped switch in most cases. This would lead me to believe there is some additional control that monitors usage and bumps up the performance and efficiency of the power train in a much more impactful way.

 

[Riddick]

OP, the fact your truck is not downshifting when you give it the beans is concerning to me. Regardless if the truck is derated or not it should give max power under wide open throttle conditions. Regardless if I'm towing or not if I go more than 1/3 throttle input the truck downshifts, every vehicle I have owned does. What happens when you try to accelerate when not towing, does the truck downshift?

My personal opinion is there is no 6k mile derate function. Several cars out there limit RPMs/power for x amount of miles. I know for a fact the C8 Corvettes do this and I believe the Hellcat platforms might do something similar. However, they are only limited for 500 or so miles, 6k miles seems extremely excessive in my opinion. Additionally, rings only take a 10-15 miles to fully seat from my experiences. I am no pro but I have built a few engines in my time and rings were fully seated after 10-15 miles or a couple of heat cycles, verified by compression test. I do agree engines do make more power after 10-20k miles but its not a dramatic difference, were talking very small increases in power..... you will not be able to feel the difference in power..... especially in a 8k lb brick.

 

[Blythkd1]

Compression check is fine but that doesn't confirm when the rings are done finishing the cylinder walls. Oil in the hone marks will allow for full compression very soon after engine assembly. When an engine is done burning oil is a much better indicator of rings being fully seated in the bores. I went through a Duramax a couple years ago that had never burned any oil. After installing a new piston in one cylinder, it was going through some oil and did this for a few thousand miles but eventually went back to not burning any oil. This was something like 4 - 5k miles.

And in my new Ram, I've noticed that slow gradual improvement that you mentioned, in fuel mileage anyway. I don't ever see WOT so still hard to tell about all out power.

My truck holds in high gear for a long time too, even when towing. Seems like I'd have to floor it to get a downshift at normal highway rpm's. It lugs down more than any other truck I've ever had, just assumed it's a Cummins thing. Could it have anything to do with transmission tuning? I have the Aisin and the low power engine. Seems like that combo with the lower HP would downshift sooner though?

 

[Yillbs]

Can you cite anything regarding your "Research"?

He is an SO if you read his post but you are right there is a 6k mile detune on these trucks my 19 had a huge difference in power right at 10k km (6000 miles) it was like flipping a switch i noticed the difference easily then i did some digging and found i was right

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Can you cite anything regarding your "Research"?

Still doing further digging, i have a friend at a dealer who is looking into it, he mentioned they have done it in the past for various vehicles sonit is possible but he is going to see if he can find any documented evidence

 

[Dasmoetorhead]

I just yanked our 10k 5th wheel from Johnson Ciry, TN to Eureka, CA 2,750 miles and did 70 mph most of the way across I 80. Slowed down to 60 a few times and 5th gear for some long grades. I just did this to be kind to my truck, but it has plenty of power left even on steep grades.