3500 SRW suspension

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I'm in no position to argue, but the RAM Service Manual document I uploaded in my earlier post clearly states that the 3500 is a closed system.

negative ghost rider it is not as per the document and its not nitrogen

 

[roegs]

negative ghost rider it is not as per the document and its not nitrogen

As in many of your posts, you somehow always know more than other members, the factory, and possibly Engineers. I uploaded RAM documentation - and while I understand it could be incorrect I'll ask the same courtesy from you. Please backup your statements with official documentation. If you're unable to backup your statements, please move on from my posts....

 

[roegs]

I see a few conflicting, or less than detailed statements in the doc.

did you drill into this "refilling" link?

I did and I too noticed some statements in the description doc that seemed to bleed over into the 1500 system (which I had on my previous RAM). Here is the section on filling the system.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

As in many of your posts, you somehow always know more than other members, the factory, and possibly Engineers. I uploaded RAM documentation - and while I understand it could be incorrect I'll ask the same courtesy from you. Please backup your statements with official documentation. If you're unable to backup your statements, please move on from my posts....

Your document you posted is the documentation i am referencing there is nothing in there stating it is a closed loop nitrogen system

unless its not showing everything i can only see 6 pages in the document. The only thing that says anything about a closed system is the control module which is not saying its a closed loop system only a closed system but that is a carry over from the 1500 documentation….

 

[PRS]

Golly, I see on the bottom of the first page of the document posted in #83, a reference to the purity requirement for the nitrogen fill.
Mitchell DIY manual also speaks to a closed nitrogen filled system on my 2020 DRW.

 

[AH64ID]

Golly, I see on the bottom of the first page of the document posted in #83, a reference to the purity requirement for the nitrogen fill.
Mitchell DIY manual also speaks to a closed nitrogen filled system on my 2020 DRW.

It’s just way too easy to prove that it’s an open system.

1) A closed system wouldn’t need an intake/exhaust air hose.

2) Closed systems don’t need to do a purge, yet these 3500’s do a purge upon initial startup.

3) You can feel air being sucked into the intake while the compressor is running, and you can feel air being discharged when the bags are deflating.

We should be able to trust service manuals, but the HD air suspension isn’t adequately or accurately covered.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Good read here: https://www.ram1500diesel.com/threads/air-suspension-faq-and-info.62942/

It's 1500 full air, but I think much of it relates.

Big question is, is the HD reservoir also a Nitrogen storage tank?

Of note; "6.. The unit needs to do a Air Mass Calculation to bring it into operation anytime you utilize testing procedures. (Plant Mode). This Air Mass Calculation is needed because the nitrogen is dispersed through the components at any point in time so it needs to get a true calculation of how much nitrogen the system has in the system. It does this by checking the pressure of each bag, tank, and the reservoir. The reservoir is charged to 175 PSI when new and again, it has the ability to sustain many vents to atmosphere before it will reach the point where the Air Mass is not enough for the system to operate."

Also read post #30., partly quoted here (related to "hissing): "While I have not seen or studied the control details of the system what I conclude is early on in the lowering the pressures in the bags is high enough to let the nitrogen flow into the relatively low pressure storage cylinder and then it reaches apoint where the pressures between both are equalized and the compressor must run to pressurize the nitrogen coming from the air bags to the high pressure storage bottle."

 

[AH64ID]

Big question is, Does the HD have a storage tank and a reservoir?

Just a single tank/reservoir on the HD’s, not a low and high pressure reservoir like mentioned in that thread.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Same link above, post https://www.ram1500diesel.com/threads/air-suspension-faq-and-info.62942/post-1037562

and https://www.ram1500diesel.com/threads/air-suspension-faq-and-info.62942/post-1043762

and again, qualifying that this link is regarding the 4-corner Ram 1500.

Still good info that makes a lot of sense to what we have all experienced.

 

[AH64ID]

Same link above, post https://www.ram1500diesel.com/threads/air-suspension-faq-and-info.62942/post-1037562

and https://www.ram1500diesel.com/threads/air-suspension-faq-and-info.62942/post-1043762

and again, qualifying that this link is regarding the 4-corner Ram 1500.

Still good info that makes a lot of sense to what we have all experienced.

Based on what I have witnessed on the 3500 systems a lot of that does apply, but not all.

For instance, if the 3500 system was closed the compressor would have to run to deflate the bags yet it doesn’t, and we get venting overboard.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Atmospheric intake has to be a minor supplemental/system low stopgap, everything I'm finding references this.

The Air Supply Unit (ASU) is located on the vehicle frame rail on the passenger side of the vehicle. The ASU contains the air dryer, compressor, exhaust valve, valve block, pressure sensor, and temperature sensor.

The compressor itself is suspended from the ASU mounting bracket by three spring loaded studs to reduce vibration and noise. The valve block is bolted to a mounting bracket that is in turn bolted directly to the side of the ASU mounting bracket. The ASU is serviced as an assembly.

The compressor cannot refill the reservoir and the complete system if all pressure is exhausted, as in a compressor assembly or valve block replacement. The system will need to be filled at the reservoir with nitrogen. For complete filling of the air suspension system after a repair (Refer to 17 - Rear Suspension/Standard Procedure) .

 

[AH64ID]

Atmospheric intake has to be a minor supplemental/system low stopgap, everything I'm finding references this.

It would seem so on the 1500’s, but not on the 3500. It’s used every cold start to purge the moisture from the system, and every pressure release form the bags, and every time the compressor runs.

So much miscopied information from the 1500 to the 3500 that it creates all this confusion.

I presume the 2500 is the same as the 3500, but I haven’t spent any time playing with and learning that system.

The compressor cannot refill the reservoir and the complete system if all pressure is exhausted, as in a compressor assembly or valve block replacement.

I do believe this applies to our 3500’s, and they they need to be filled with nitrogen when those replacements are made. It’s not that the compressor can’t do it, but rather the run time indicates a leak.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Based on what I have witnessed on the 3500 systems a lot of that does apply, but not all.

For instance, if the 3500 system was closed the compressor would have to run to deflate the bags yet it doesn’t, and we get venting overboard.

Precisely you would not be able to deflate the bags without the compressor running on a closed loop system thats just basics. The bag pressure would not be able to overcome the pressurized tank while deflating the bags unless it was a vented system.

The only reason for the tank on the 3500s that i can see is to aid the system in faster air ups no different than an expansion tank you would see on a water system in a house.

 

[AH64ID]

Precisely you would not be able to deflate the bags without the compressor running on a closed loop system thats just basics. The bag pressure would not be able to overcome the pressurized tank while deflating the bags unless it was a vented system.

Exactly, nothing in operation points to a closed system.

It’s a shame the documentation is so poor.

The only reason for the tank on the 3500s that i can see is to aid the system in faster air ups no different than an expansion tank you would see on a water system in a house.

I agree. It’s fast, so fast that my truck will often over-inflate the bags coming out of bed loweing mode and have to lower itself again. It was odd seeing “raising” followed by “lowering” the first few times.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I guess I just haven't paid enough attention to it when it's doing its thing.

 

[AH64ID]

I guess I just haven't paid enough attention to it when it's doing its thing.

I’m not going to admit to being a nerd on some things….but the wife may accuse me often

My dad has had basically the same trucks I’ve had for the last 4 years, to include CTS2/3 monitors. I hear all the time “I’ve never noticed that”. Oh well….

 

[Brutal_HO]

I’m not going to admit to being a nerd on some things….but the wife may accuse me often

My dad has had basically the same trucks I’ve had for the last 4 years, to include CTS2/3 monitors. I hear all the time “I’ve never noticed that”. Oh well….

What I'm hearing is you calling me old.

(Probably the same/similar age as said Dad) LOL

 

[AH64ID]

What I'm hearing is you calling me old.

(Probably the same/similar age as said Dad) LOL

Haha…. Not my intent, but if the shoe fits.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Haha…. Not my intent, but if the shoe fits.

You're lucky I can no longer ban you.