High Output (AISIN) vs Standard (68rfe)

[Bozo]

Whether torque is managed through ecm or traction control, still limited. Otherwise we would see these things lighting the tires at will. Where are those videos? Big rigs do not give you all available torque until the upper gears, for good reason, it breaks parts. Of course they are not going to admit that your foot is not in control. Your foot has been driving the ecm for several years now.

 

[thestuarts]

As I already stated, pistons and injectors are what everyone is saying.

There is no significant difference between the 2019-2020 SO and HO engines.

Your reading too much into a couple marketing videos inaccurate assumptions.

Go look here: https://www.cummins.com/engines/cummins-67l-turbo-diesel-2019

You can trust what everyone is saying. I will trust the Ram engineers and Vice President.

 

[Brutal_HO]

You can trust what everyone is saying. I will trust the Ram engineers and Vice President.

Look at the Cummins RAM Truck page I linked. Do you think they have it wrong?

This is the 2019 CGI engine both SO and HO:

This is the 2018 6.7L:

The videos are like a bad game of telephone and you're making it worse by twisting things up. I don't trust half of what the marketing guys say (or tech guys doing marketing).

The SO and HO engines are IDENTICAL in all aspects except for perhaps the pistons and injectors. Cummins doesn't build two entirely different 6.7L, they have switched over to the CGI block.

 

[ST3500]

Ram has officially stated torque is not limited with the HO+Aisin. Here are the videos:

• Rod Romain, the chief engineer of RAM, said, "Now, first gear has 100% of 1,000 foot pounds of torque."
• Jim Morrison, VP of RAM, said, "Yeah, we are not scrubbing any of the torque. It is available right off the get go. It really helps get the big trailers moving."

Maximum torque is available at 1,800 RPM, so 100% torque is available as soon as the engine reaches 1,800 RPM.

I am aware many people dispute Ram's claim, but I've not seen any evidence other than speculation.

Torque available and torque management are two different subjects.
No doubts that HO Cummins has 1,000 foot pounds of torque.
Torque management is: proportional delivery of torque under specific parameters and conditions.
Without torque management at 1,000 foot pounds of torque: any transmissions (Aisin or not) will not last log, not to mention that it would be quite challenging to control your vehicle with that amount of brute force available at all times.

 

[ST3500]

The SO and HO engines are IDENTICAL in all aspects except for perhaps the pistons and injectors. Cummins doesn't build two entirely different 6.7L, they have switched over to the CGI block.

I agree with your quote, both engines are identical except for: either the pistons or the cylinder head design, in order to lower the compression rate on the HO to match with the increased turbo / fuel delivery.

 

[Bozo]

Torque available and torque management are two different subjects.
No doubts that HO Cummins has 1,000 foot pounds of torque.
Torque management is: proportional delivery of torque under specific parameters and conditions.
Without torque management at 1,000 foot pounds of torque: any transmissions (Aisin or not) will not last log, not to mention that it would be quite challenging to control your vehicle with that amount of brute force available at all times.

Well said......and EXACTLY.

 

[ST3500]

Well said......and EXACTLY.

Thank you Bozo, I'm glad to see that some of us do understand the concept and application of torque management.

 

[TWILLIAMS9]

When I test drove both I felt that the 68rfe was a much smoother shifting transmission while unloaded. Unless I was towing heavy frequently I would choose the 68rfe. I only tow our 16K fifth wheel 6-10 times a year so I chose to save money and have a better unloaded driving experience. 860 ft/lbs is plenty of torque IMO.

 

[Bozo]

When I test drove both I felt that the 68rfe was a much smoother shifting transmission while unloaded. Unless I was towing heavy frequently I would choose the 68rfe. I only tow our 16K fifth wheel 6-10 times a year so I chose to save money and have a better unloaded driving experience. 860 ft/lbs is plenty of torque IMO.

And a couple grand cheaper......at the least.

 

[Inthehills]

The SO and HO engines are IDENTICAL in all aspects except for perhaps the pistons and injectors. Cummins doesn't build two entirely different 6.7L, they have switched over to the CGI block.

”Identical “ , hmm, you might want to check the various engine internal part numbers, beginning with the camshafts.

 

[Brutal_HO]

”Identical “ , hmm, you might want to check the various engine internal part numbers, beginning with the camshafts.

OK then, nearly identical Mr pedantic. But they sure as hell aren't different in the manner thestuarts claims.

 

[MSundet]

Guys, I have owned both and from the drive they are different and when you open them up they are different. Being I have driven and owned both. They as individual trucks are nothing of the same.


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[ST3500]

”Identical “ , hmm, you might want to check the various engine internal part numbers, beginning with the camshafts.

Hard to believe that for only 150 pounds of extra torque after improving: cylinder heads, fuel management and turbo boost there will be a need for a different camshaft.
On a gas engine yes, for sure. But before you need to change the camshaft on a diesel you need to be aiming for some much higher torque / horsepower and rpm's numbers that only 150 extra pounds of torque.
I could be wrong, and I don't intend to dispute your opinion, but I will be very surprised if they did (and happy at the same time because I also have the HO Cummins).

 

[Brutal_HO]

Guys, I have owned both and from the drive they are different and when you open them up they are different. I have spent $161,000 on two trucks and seen, driven and owned both. They as individual trucks are nothing of the same.


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They are "different" primarily by one having more torque and a completely different transmission. Of course the driving experience is different. The HO pulls like a freight train and shifts like a bus.

I can show you the info but I can't make you understand it. I'm done wasting my time.

 

[ST3500]

The HO pulls like a freight train and shifts like a bus.

BINGO !! That's a perfect way to describe the HO + Aisin behavior.

 

[MSundet]

They are "different" primarily by one having more torque and a completely different transmission. Of course the driving experience is different. The HO pulls like a freight train and shifts like a bus.

I can show you the info but I can't make you understand it. I'm done wasting my time.

I don’t want you to feel like you’re wasting your time at all, I believe at the end of the day it’s a personal preference.

I have owned both. I felt like my 2018 had air between the shifts and was never really connected. Personally I like to feel what’s going on and know that I am transferring power etc. I am not heavy on the foot with a truck but I have spent a lot of time in the driver seat of multiple race cars. I tend to be extremely gentle yet I like using the power when needed. I use the race car theory because you drive them like you have an egg between your foot and the pedal also you have eggs between your hand on the steering wheel. Hopefully you understand the analogy, I appreciate the 2020 with the HO and trans. I appreciate feeling what’s going on underneath my foot in between my fingers. Some people want it to feel like a Cadillac Escalade. I just prefer to feel exactly what I’m driving.

I’m not excusing what you are saying, and I understand completely what you say by showing you the info on paper. I believe that we would understand each other in person if we are having a conversation it’s more of the agree to disagree.


Please call me out if I am misunderstanding


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[ST3500]

I don’t want you to feel like you’re wasting your time at all, I believe at the end of the day it’s a personal preference.

I have owned both. I felt like my 2018 had air between the shifts and was never really connected. Personally I like to feel what’s going on and know that I am transferring power etc. I am not heavy on the foot with a truck but I have spent a lot of time in the driver seat of multiple race cars. I tend to be extremely gentle yet I like using the power when needed. I use the race car theory because you drive them like you have an egg between your foot and the pedal also you have eggs between your hand on the steering wheel. Hopefully you understand the analogy, I appreciate the 2020 with the HO and trans. I appreciate feeling what’s going on underneath my foot in between my fingers. Some people want it to feel like a Cadillac Escalade. I just prefer to feel exactly what I’m driving.

I’m not excusing what you are saying, and I understand completely what you say by showing you the info on paper. I believe that we would understand each other in person if we are having a conversation it’s more of the agree to disagree.


Please call me out if I am misunderstanding


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I'm sorry to interfere with your comment (and your first comment, as well), but, aside from glorifying your financial and racing achievements...….. instead, could you please share your personal opinion (pros and cons) between the High Output AISIN and the Standard 68rfe ? Thank you.

 

[MSundet]

I'm sorry to interfere with your comment (and your first comment, as well), but, aside from glorifying your financial and racing achievements...….. instead, could you please share your personal opinion (pros and cons) between the High Output AISIN and the Standard 68rfe ? Thank you.

Sorry for the pompous comment...

The Aisin shifts more like a tuned truck, still smooth and yet you know your connected. The truck has better exhaust breaking and can hold gears better while towing.

The 68rfe I felt like it had air between shifts and slipped. This said it did not, just the feeling I got when driving it. It felt more like a 1500 that a HO.


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[ST3500]

Sorry for the pompous comment...

The Aisin shifts more like a tuned truck, still smooth and yet you know your connected. The truck has better exhaust breaking and can hold gears better while towing.

The 68rfe I felt like it had air between shifts and slipped. This said it did not, just the feeling I got when driving it. It felt more like a 1500 that a HO.


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I agree with your opinion, very good description of both transmissions behaviors !

Back in 2016 I was shopping for a new truck, in particular I was aiming for the HO Aisin option.
I test drove 3 Aisin equipped trucks and all 3 had a slight vibration in first gear, it was definitely not a coincidence and soon after I learned that many HO Aisin's owners had the same issue.
I ended up purchasing the standard version with the 68rfe.

Then, in October 2019, my "gardener" show up with a brand new crew cab 4x4 DRW HO Aisin equipped Tradesman …….. I ask him for the key fob and went for a good test drive with half of his gardening equipment while he was working at my house (this nice guy has been taking care of my landscape needs for the past 24 years). 20 minutes later...….. LOL..... I came back with a huge smile on my face ! I knew that a RAM Aisin equipped truck will be my next vehicle.
Two weeks later I got my new HO Aisin Laramie DRW, with no regrets on selling the 68rfe equipped truck.

The moral of my story is that: the Aisin has a unique behavior that you either like it or...….. you don't.

 

[MSundet]

I agree with your opinion, very good description of both transmissions behaviors !

Back in 2016 I was shopping for a new truck, in particular I was aiming for the HO Aisin option.
I test drove 3 Aisin equipped trucks and all 3 had a slight vibration in first gear, it was definitely not a coincidence and soon after I learned that many HO Aisin's owners had the same issue.
I ended up purchasing the standard version with the 68rfe.

Then, in October 2019, my "gardener" show up with a brand new crew cab 4x4 DRW HO Aisin equipped Tradesman …….. I ask him for the key fob and went for a good test drive with half of his gardening equipment while he was working at my house (this nice guy has been taking care of my landscape needs for the past 24 years). 20 minutes later...….. LOL..... I came back with a huge smile on my face ! I knew that a RAM Aisin equipped truck will be my next vehicle.
Two weeks later I got my new HO Aisin Laramie DRW, with no regrets on selling the 68rfe equipped truck.

The moral of my story is that: the Aisin has a unique behavior that you either like it or...….. you don't.

This is the testimony for what it is and produces in a HO/AISIN. I’m very glad I chose this option.


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