Ram Heavy Duty Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

High Output (AISIN) vs Standard (68rfe)

MSundet

Active Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2020
Messages
197
Reaction score
171
This is the testimony for what it is and produces in a HO/AISIN. I’m very glad I chose this option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



They speak on the capabilities in this video, and capture this truck well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

RamGuy84

Active Member
Joined
May 17, 2019
Messages
366
Reaction score
165
I guess I figured I didn’t tow heavy enough to get an AISIN.
 

leeroy300

Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2020
Messages
71
Reaction score
36
lower compression more HP and Torque eqauls some mechanical change somewhere
 

Brewbud

Brewmeister Meisterbrew
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
1,987
Reaction score
3,066
Location
SoCal
lower compression more HP and Torque eqauls some mechanical change somewhere

You are probably right about a mechanical change. Moreso to change the torque curve and yet keep economy/emissions rather than just increasing the peak numbers IMO. It would have been pretty easy for them to tune fueling and boost parameters to increase the HP and torque on these beasts. Having said that, keeping them running at the higher numbers when you need to warranty them also takes better parts.
 

dougpaper

New Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2020
Messages
13
Reaction score
5
I wonder with the latest recall, did they detune both motors somewhat? I only have 1200 miles on mine but when i drove back a couple of hours from the dealer when new i was getting almost 20MPG. Now after the 2 tsbs for the motor and tranny i barely sniff 15mpg on longer trips. Something happened within the tune and it makes me think they adversely affected something. I am half temped to go to a aftermarket tune but for certain i worry about the warranty.
 

Gemstatejake

New Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
27
Reaction score
12
New to the HO/Aisin previous truck was the 68RFE 2017. Aisin is much busier in tow haul and full compression brake. Shifts a lot with much more noticeable clunk. Seems to me the compression brake is much more aggressive. Only been driving the truck for a couple days so maybe these little idiosyncrasies will iron out after break in. The 68 was a pleasure to dive you barely noticed shifts. Think it’ll just take some getting used to.
 

Brutal_HO

The Mad Irishman
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
12,033
Reaction score
21,373
Location
Douglas County, CO
New to the HO/Aisin previous truck was the 68RFE 2017. Aisin is much busier in tow haul and full compression brake. Shifts a lot with much more noticeable clunk. Seems to me the compression brake is much more aggressive. Only been driving the truck for a couple days so maybe these little idiosyncrasies will iron out after break in. The 68 was a pleasure to dive you barely noticed shifts. Think it’ll just take some getting used to.

It acts differently for sure in TH and also full on vs automatic.
 

AEV_CUMMINS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
310
Reaction score
678
Location
Vancouver, B.C - Canada
I am having a heck of a time trying to decide which transmission to get of the 2. I have tried everything in order to not need to create this post but I need help... So here it goes. I am getting a 21' CTD and my build plans are pretty specific. I will be doing a AEV exterior conversion (Bumpers & Fender Flares), using Carli Backcountry 3.25 full kit. 18'' wheels w/37'' tires. I will be daily driving, overland trips as often as possible and hauling little more than small fishing boats, ATV's and possibly under 10000 pound TT (if decide against rooftop tent) but mostly just the payload of the parts listed. Also I live in a wonderful land where I will be losing a few parts from the truck that will help it breathe better but also require a tune.
Now it is a slippery slope but I plan to do a small power tune somewhere in the realm of 50hp + or -. I do not care about going fast and I am not after big power levels. Just a nice increase in response, drive-ability and fuel economy. It is well known that I would not be able to tune the AISIN at all and would have to keep the stock torque limiters in effect in order to keep the AISIN happy... this would limit me to a low hp tune basically forever as from research.. AISIN and tuned trucks do not play all that well together and it starts to drive choppy above a small tune (which I think at this point is all I will want/need). Now the benefit to the AISIN is just how reveered it is for hard work and reliability. Now I know it usually pertains to towing and not overlanding/daily driving with primarily just payload... but I do like the thought of having the AISIN for the bulletproof nature of it.
Now on the other end.. the 68rfe is able to be tuned and from my research.. once the truck is tuned and you add the 68rfe basic tune (just shift points & line pressure essentially), the reaction is that the truck feels much faster and responsive/fun to drive.. possibly because of the ability to remove factory torque limiters. Basically the 68rfe plays better with a tuned truck from my understanding and the daily drive-ability of it is much preferred.
The other wrench in the thought process is that the HO w/AISIN for 21' now has 420hp (50hp above 68rfe) & 1075lb ft (225lb,ft above 68rfe) which makes me think even after a few things falling off the truck and a tune on the 68rfe std output would bring the power to a little more than the HO version but may actually (or not) drive substantially faster and seat of the pants feel better. I wish I could drive both tuned but I cannot. I am awaiting a 21' HO to get into a dealership near me so I can test drive the new tuning on the AISIN that RAM said they did and see if I can live with (and enjoy) the shifting pattern many seem to be annoyed with. If I do not like it then it is a pretty clear answer. Please share your opinions on my situation and what you would do and or further research I should do prior to making the decision. I plan to keep this truck for 8+ years and make a lifetime of memories in it with my growing family. This truck is replacing both my 18' Nissan GTR and my 19' 1500 limited hemi and will open my life up to a ton of new adventures. Thank you so much in advance and taking the time to read this. Any and all suggestions welcome! Apologies for the long post but I just simply need help.
 

thestuarts

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2019
Messages
498
Reaction score
499
I own a 2019 3500 HO/Aisin with factory air bags. I had CJC Offroad install the "Carli Suspension 3" Pintop 2.5 Suspension System 2013-2021 Ram 3500 6.7L Cummins with Factory Air Assist." I am running 37" Wildpeak AT3W tires on Method 701 HD rims.

Based on your requirements, I would get a 2500 due to the much, much more comfortable rear suspension, tunability of the engine, and the comfort/tunability of the 68RFE.

The rear leaf springs on the 3500 are super stiff when not towing, which is to be expected. Even after getting the Carli suspension installed (with better leaf springs), I think a 2500 with a Carli system is much more comfortable.

There are no rear-end gear sets available for the 3500 at this time, so you will be stuck with the 3.73 gearing on 37" tires. I found that this isn't a great combination with the 37" tires. I would like to install a high-4 or low-5 gear ratio, but nobody sells gears for the 12" AAM rear differential, yet (as far as I know).

There are more tuning options for the standard output diesel than the high output diesel.

The Aisin transmission is great when towing my 15,000lb 5th wheel, but when not towing I really wish I had the 68RFE. I recommend you watch Eddie's Life YouTube video comparing the Aisin to the 68RFE. As you said, there are no tuning options for the Aisin, but there are lots of tunes for the 68RFE. Also, a built 68RFE transmission+converter is a lot cheaper than a built Aisin transmission+converter. The oil change interval on the Aisin is 30,000 miles which is double the service interval of the 68RFE.
 

AEV_CUMMINS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
310
Reaction score
678
Location
Vancouver, B.C - Canada
I own a 2019 3500 HO/Aisin with factory air bags. I had CJC Offroad install the "Carli Suspension 3" Pintop 2.5 Suspension System 2013-2021 Ram 3500 6.7L Cummins with Factory Air Assist." I am running 37" Wildpeak AT3W tires on Method 701 HD rims.

Based on your requirements, I would get a 2500 due to the much, much more comfortable rear suspension, tunability of the engine, and the comfort/tunability of the 68RFE.

The rear leaf springs on the 3500 are super stiff when not towing, which is to be expected. Even after getting the Carli suspension installed (with better leaf springs), I think a 2500 with a Carli system is much more comfortable.

There are no rear-end gear sets available for the 3500 at this time, so you will be stuck with the 3.73 gearing on 37" tires. I found that this isn't a great combination with the 37" tires. I would like to install a high-4 or low-5 gear ratio, but nobody sells gears for the 12" AAM rear differential, yet (as far as I know).

There are more tuning options for the standard output diesel than the high output diesel.

The Aisin transmission is great when towing my 15,000lb 5th wheel, but when not towing I really wish I had the 68RFE. I recommend you watch Eddie's Life YouTube video comparing the Aisin to the 68RFE. As you said, there are no tuning options for the Aisin, but there are lots of tunes for the 68RFE. Also, a built 68RFE transmission+converter is a lot cheaper than a built Aisin transmission+converter. The oil change interval on the Aisin is 30,000 miles which is double the service interval of the 68RFE.
Thank you so much for your candid reply. I agree entirely and have been leaning heavily the 2500 route myself which also prompted me to create the post. Even if I got the 3500.. with the full replacement pack from Carli.. my payload would be basically the same as a 2500. Plus the payload I will have on the truck is pretty spread out and not all in the bed. I know that after the bumpers and what not I put on the truck that I will most likely be over the payload capacity but with the tune/other mods I think it will more than makeup for it. Also very good point about the inability to change gear ratio. This is something I did not know and 100% has an effect on the decision as I want to re-gear for the setup I will have. I am essentially wanting to re-create the CJC olive green with bronze rims 5th gen 2500 they made. I so badly wish I could just get the night edition with the olive green paint.. it is 100% the color I want but I am honestly concerned about how much it will cost and who will do it to get all the badges, grille and more costly/ importantly the headlights & tail lights swapped to night edition to complete the look. But I know it will be worth it in the end especially with the AEV stuff on it as well. Just wish it was an option from factory :(. Lazy part of me says to just get Granite with night edition but in the long run I know I would have my dream truck with the olive green CJC knock-off / upgrade :p
 

thestuarts

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2019
Messages
498
Reaction score
499
Thank you so much for your candid reply. I agree entirely and have been leaning heavily the 2500 route myself which also prompted me to create the post. Even if I got the 3500.. with the full replacement pack from Carli.. my payload would be basically the same as a 2500. Plus the payload I will have on the truck is pretty spread out and not all in the bed. I know that after the bumpers and what not I put on the truck that I will most likely be over the payload capacity but with the tune/other mods I think it will more than makeup for it. Also very good point about the inability to change gear ratio. This is something I did not know and 100% has an effect on the decision as I want to re-gear for the setup I will have. I am essentially wanting to re-create the CJC olive green with bronze rims 5th gen 2500 they made. I so badly wish I could just get the night edition with the olive green paint.. it is 100% the color I want but I am honestly concerned about how much it will cost and who will do it to get all the badges, grille and more costly/ importantly the headlights & tail lights swapped to night edition to complete the look. But I know it will be worth it in the end especially with the AEV stuff on it as well. Just wish it was an option from factory :(. Lazy part of me says to just get Granite with night edition but in the long run I know I would have my dream truck with the olive green CJC knock-off / upgrade :p

I paid CJC to powder coat my rims the same bronze color as Cole's. I am in the process of converting all the chrome to the the night edition. I just ordered the headlights today.

You may be able to do the work yourself. CJC posted a how-to video showing all the steps.

20200912_104604 (2).jpg
 

AEV_CUMMINS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
310
Reaction score
678
Location
Vancouver, B.C - Canada
I paid CJC to powder coat my rims the same bronze color as Cole's. I am in the process of converting all the chrome to the the night edition. I just ordered the headlights today.

You may be able to do the work yourself. CJC posted a how-to video showing all the steps.

View attachment 11570
Buddy that is a sick rig you got there. What are you going to do about the bumpers? Paint/wrap them body color? If you do not mind.. Where did you buy the headlights from and how much did it cost?
 

thestuarts

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2019
Messages
498
Reaction score
499
Buddy that is a sick rig you got there. What are you going to do about the bumpers? Paint/wrap them body color? If you do not mind.. Where did you buy the headlights from and how much did it cost?

Cole at CJC convinced me the best thing to do with the chrome bumpers is to have them stripped and powder coated. The powder coat can be matched to the color of the body paint, or I may go with a black color that matches the night edition grill. I like metal bumpers for durability compared to the OEM color-matched bumpers made from plastic. I don't have any chips in my metal bumper after 22k miles, but I know the bumper would have chips if it was made from plastic.

I ordered the headlights from moparpartdepot.com which I have used before. I believe they are just a drop shipper like most of the other mopar* web sites. They cost around $410 each, and the lead time is at least 2 weeks. The part numbers are 68360178ac and 68360179ac.
 

RV_Goose

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2020
Messages
877
Reaction score
540
When I was looking I found a video of a fellow with a company with several years of the Cummins. He compared a 2019 Ho Aisin to his other trucks. The summary is that if you compare the SO 68RFE to the HO Aisin on a standard unloaded test drive, you'll buy the SO 68RFE. If you test drive with 10k or more re trailer, you'll buy the HO Aisin.

Towing with my 2029 RAM 3500 Tradesman dually HO Aisin is wonderful.
 

Brutal_HO

The Mad Irishman
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
12,033
Reaction score
21,373
Location
Douglas County, CO
I am having a heck of a time trying to decide which transmission to get of the 2. I have tried everything in order to not need to create this post but I need help... So here it goes. I am getting a 21' CTD and my build plans are pretty specific. I will be doing a AEV exterior conversion (Bumpers & Fender Flares), using Carli Backcountry 3.25 full kit. 18'' wheels w/37'' tires. I will be daily driving, overland trips as often as possible and hauling little more than small fishing boats, ATV's and possibly under 10000 pound TT (if decide against rooftop tent) but mostly just the payload of the parts listed. Also I live in a wonderful land where I will be losing a few parts from the truck that will help it breathe better but also require a tune.
Now it is a slippery slope but I plan to do a small power tune somewhere in the realm of 50hp + or -. I do not care about going fast and I am not after big power levels. Just a nice increase in response, drive-ability and fuel economy. It is well known that I would not be able to tune the AISIN at all and would have to keep the stock torque limiters in effect in order to keep the AISIN happy... this would limit me to a low hp tune basically forever as from research.. AISIN and tuned trucks do not play all that well together and it starts to drive choppy above a small tune (which I think at this point is all I will want/need). Now the benefit to the AISIN is just how reveered it is for hard work and reliability. Now I know it usually pertains to towing and not overlanding/daily driving with primarily just payload... but I do like the thought of having the AISIN for the bulletproof nature of it.
Now on the other end.. the 68rfe is able to be tuned and from my research.. once the truck is tuned and you add the 68rfe basic tune (just shift points & line pressure essentially), the reaction is that the truck feels much faster and responsive/fun to drive.. possibly because of the ability to remove factory torque limiters. Basically the 68rfe plays better with a tuned truck from my understanding and the daily drive-ability of it is much preferred.
The other wrench in the thought process is that the HO w/AISIN for 21' now has 420hp (50hp above 68rfe) & 1075lb ft (225lb,ft above 68rfe) which makes me think even after a few things falling off the truck and a tune on the 68rfe std output would bring the power to a little more than the HO version but may actually (or not) drive substantially faster and seat of the pants feel better. I wish I could drive both tuned but I cannot. I am awaiting a 21' HO to get into a dealership near me so I can test drive the new tuning on the AISIN that RAM said they did and see if I can live with (and enjoy) the shifting pattern many seem to be annoyed with. If I do not like it then it is a pretty clear answer. Please share your opinions on my situation and what you would do and or further research I should do prior to making the decision. I plan to keep this truck for 8+ years and make a lifetime of memories in it with my growing family. This truck is replacing both my 18' Nissan GTR and my 19' 1500 limited hemi and will open my life up to a ton of new adventures. Thank you so much in advance and taking the time to read this. Any and all suggestions welcome! Apologies for the long post but I just simply need help.

If you're not going to tow heavy, and going to tune and/or do a weight reduction tune, just get the SO/68RFE.

They're very reliable unless you go crazy on the tune/bad tune and certainly cheaper to build than the AS69RC.
 

Xflight29

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2020
Messages
516
Reaction score
461
Have you researched any of the Power wagons
I am having a heck of a time trying to decide which transmission to get of the 2. I have tried everything in order to not need to create this post but I need help... So here it goes. I am getting a 21' CTD and my build plans are pretty specific. I will be doing a AEV exterior conversion (Bumpers & Fender Flares), using Carli Backcountry 3.25 full kit. 18'' wheels w/37'' tires. I will be daily driving, overland trips as often as possible and hauling little more than small fishing boats, ATV's and possibly under 10000 pound TT (if decide against rooftop tent) but mostly just the payload of the parts listed. Also I live in a wonderful land where I will be losing a few parts from the truck that will help it breathe better but also require a tune.
Now it is a slippery slope but I plan to do a small power tune somewhere in the realm of 50hp + or -. I do not care about going fast and I am not after big power levels. Just a nice increase in response, drive-ability and fuel economy. It is well known that I would not be able to tune the AISIN at all and would have to keep the stock torque limiters in effect in order to keep the AISIN happy... this would limit me to a low hp tune basically forever as from research.. AISIN and tuned trucks do not play all that well together and it starts to drive choppy above a small tune (which I think at this point is all I will want/need). Now the benefit to the AISIN is just how reveered it is for hard work and reliability. Now I know it usually pertains to towing and not overlanding/daily driving with primarily just payload... but I do like the thought of having the AISIN for the bulletproof nature of it.
Now on the other end.. the 68rfe is able to be tuned and from my research.. once the truck is tuned and you add the 68rfe basic tune (just shift points & line pressure essentially), the reaction is that the truck feels much faster and responsive/fun to drive.. possibly because of the ability to remove factory torque limiters. Basically the 68rfe plays better with a tuned truck from my understanding and the daily drive-ability of it is much preferred.
The other wrench in the thought process is that the HO w/AISIN for 21' now has 420hp (50hp above 68rfe) & 1075lb ft (225lb,ft above 68rfe) which makes me think even after a few things falling off the truck and a tune on the 68rfe std output would bring the power to a little more than the HO version but may actually (or not) drive substantially faster and seat of the pants feel better. I wish I could drive both tuned but I cannot. I am awaiting a 21' HO to get into a dealership near me so I can test drive the new tuning on the AISIN that RAM said they did and see if I can live with (and enjoy) the shifting pattern many seem to be annoyed with. If I do not like it then it is a pretty clear answer. Please share your opinions on my situation and what you would do and or further research I should do prior to making the decision. I plan to keep this truck for 8+ years and make a lifetime of memories in it with my growing family. This truck is replacing both my 18' Nissan GTR and my 19' 1500 limited hemi and will open my life up to a ton of new adventures. Thank you so much in advance and taking the time to read this. Any and all suggestions welcome! Apologies for the long post but I just simply need help.
Have you looked at any of the Power Wagons ? I would think if your not towing to much and want to over-land the power wagon would fit your needs. If I didn't tow so much I would definitely own the Power Wagon in lue of a diesel. Just for thought.
.
 

AEV_CUMMINS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
310
Reaction score
678
Location
Vancouver, B.C - Canada
Have you researched any of the Power wagons

Have you looked at any of the Power Wagons ? I would think if your not towing to much and want to over-land the power wagon would fit your needs. If I didn't tow so much I would definitely own the Power Wagon in lue of a diesel. Just for thought.
.
Coming from a HEMI.. I not only want the extra range from the CTD on long trips but also the extra aftermarket support . As I am replacing my fun to drive vehicle as well as my truck.. I cannot fight the enthusiast inside of me that loves diesel and what you can do with them. Plus the sound of the I6 :) . I know I am going to get a CTD but very fair and good suggestion nonetheless. Thanks!
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top